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Posted: 5/14/2003 8:06:50 PM EDT
OK I hope at least one of you listened to Dr Laura today and heard this because it was VERY cool to hear. [b]BACKROUND:[/b] Lady calls up and sounds like a soccer mom. I think she was intimidated by peer pressure. I am paraphrasing so the conversation is not EXACT but it is as close to exact. Caller: My husband is a police officer and he brings home his gun from work. I have a 4 and 1/2 year old son that is amazed by it and on the weekends my husband and son play video games that they shoot at things. Is this healthy? Dr Laura: What are they shooting at? Bad Guys? Caller: No. Aliens. Dr Laura: Well then thats OK Caller: But what do you think about the guns? Dr Laura: At 4 1/2 I would say it is a good idea to teach him about guns. Because I feel that by the age of 10, not only they should know how to shoot a gun they better know how to take it apart and reassemble it with their eyes closed. [red][b]At this point my jaw was on the floor[/red][/b] Caller: Really? DrLaura: Of course! you have to teach your kids to defend themselves and my hiding the guns and teaching them that guns are bad, you are contributing to the feminazation of males in this country. Do you want to raise a Man or a Wimp? Caller: a man of course. Dr Laura: Then I think you should redirect your objective of teaching your son that guns are bad and teach your uneducated girlfriends that a gun, in the right hands are a useful tool in self defense. Caller: Well, I am glad you said that. That is what I was thinking [red] yeah sure.[/red] Dr Laura: Have you ever fired a gun? Caller: No. Dr Laura: Your husband is a cop and he never taught you?? Caller: No. Dr Laura: I think it would be a good idea for you to learn. I did. I like revolvers better than Semi- auto's. Even though they kick more I shoot better than semi autos... BUT wear not only those ear plugs but where those ear muff thingies too. Because your ears will be ringing if you dont. [red]I was VERY pleasantly surprised. I know that Dr Laura was starting to get interested in guns but I didnt know that her stance on the 2nd was as involved as she was. She went on into how in today's society we NEED self defense and how terrorism has played a MAJOR role in her stance on guns and rights of carrying..... SIMPLY AWESOME!![/red]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:24:17 PM EDT
Nice!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:36:34 PM EDT
OMFG thats amazing. AND OMFG you listen to that program?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:45:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ZRH: OMFG thats amazing. AND OMFG you listen to that program?
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Actually I have not listened to her in YEARS since Sean Hannity took over on another radio station in the same time slot. I was in a customer's house fixing a frige ('cause thats what I do) and she had the radio on. You should have seen her reaction when I yelled "RIGHT ON!!" when the call was over.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:58:04 PM EDT
I often listen to Dr. Laura and have only more respect for her each time I tune in.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:59:40 PM EDT
Dr. Laura is the SHIZNIT, and she keeps getting better.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:18:27 PM EDT
That's awesome. But I still get bored of her show after about 10 minutes.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:12:45 PM EDT
Both my wife and I listen to her. We've used some of her advise in our own marriage. I like hearing her pro-gun side. I have heard it a few times before & it keeps getting better.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:15:08 PM EDT
It's too bad she's a POS hypocrite.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:20:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 11:50:51 PM EDT by 45calmike]
That's cool. I'm glad she talked some sense into some soccer mom, which, no doubt, demographically is a big audience of hers.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:48:11 PM EDT
I don't like her. Even if pro gun, same with that dam doctor Phil what a Jack Ass.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:44:28 AM EDT
Those nude photos of Dr. Laura were sexy. [devil] -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:03:11 AM EDT
I can't listen to Dr. Laura very long without getting pissed off. She rarely ever listens to the caller -- she usually passes judgement after only a few words. Life is NOT that simple. BUT... I happended to be listening to this yesterday and it was refreshing. She does make some good points about guns and other things. If she just wasn't so damn "bitchy" about the way she handles people I could like her.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:24:11 AM EDT
WHOA -- she actually admits there is a feminization of men going on in this country ? we all know its true, but never heard a public person admit to it, and even be against it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:54:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: It's too bad she's a POS hypocrite.
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How so, Steyr? I used to listen to her a LOT, and I remember when she was a little bit left-of-center on the gun issue for my taste. Then I remember her coming around, especially when all the kids in Kali were disappearing and the parents were getting scared shitless. I don't listen to her that often anymore simply because after listening daily for a few years, I pretty much know her answer to any circumstance. Also, I'm sick of hearing other people's problems. That, and the fact that she tends to be a bit heavy-handed sometimes when it's not really deserved. A bit of a turn-off, but it sure is fun when she goes nuclear on someone who DESERVES it!
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:51:21 AM EDT
here is a link to one of her calls about guns [url]http://www.drlaura.com/call/index.html?mode=view&tile=1&id=4590[/url]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:00:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: It's too bad she's a POS hypocrite.
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How so, Steyr? I used to listen to her a LOT, and I remember when she was a little bit left-of-center on the gun issue for my taste. Then I remember her coming around, especially when all the kids in Kali were disappearing and the parents were getting scared shitless. I don't listen to her that often anymore simply because after listening daily for a few years, I pretty much know her answer to any circumstance. Also, I'm sick of hearing other people's problems. That, and the fact that she tends to be a bit heavy-handed sometimes when it's not really deserved. A bit of a turn-off, but it sure is fun when she goes nuclear on someone who DESERVES it!
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Oh God, the examples are endless. But basically she has a "do as I say, not as I do" life. She berates women who put of children and family for their careers but she herself did the very same thing. She used to really harp on womens morals, porn, etc. and then came those nude pics of her. Basically she says one thing and did another. It would not surprise me at all if despite her professed views she would personally not allow any guns in her home. She is a extremely poor example of a person and compensates by judging others harshly to feel better about her own genuine lack of character. Having her support our issue actually hurts us more than it helps. Anyone who listens to (or admires) her should take a long objective look at her, her past and actions and think about if this is the kind of person you want telling you how to live your life.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:09:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 1:36:16 PM EDT by NickFury]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 10:19:39 AM EDT by Hellraiser]
I agree with SteyrAUG, she is a hypocritical piece of shit and I can't stand the sound of her voice, and it really made me laugh when those pics of her naked hairy asshole showed up on the net. Got morals?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:40:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: It's too bad she's a POS hypocrite.
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Amen. She would say something like that as a publicity stunt to get ratings. I highly doubt she is in favor of the "evil guns".
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:48:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NickFury:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Oh God, the examples are endless. But basically she has a "do as I say, not as I do" life. She berates women who put of children and family for their careers but she herself did the very same thing. She used to really harp on womens morals, porn, etc. and then came those nude pics of her. [u]Basically she says one thing and did another[/u]...
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No disrespect, SteyrAUG, but I believe it is just the other way around: she did one thing, THEN said another. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes. Lord knows I tell my nieces & nephews (as I will my expected child) to DO things I DIDN'T do and NOT to do things I DID do - we all do this. And I don't always start these "lessons" with an admission of my prior misdeeds. I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Laura, but I don't think she's a hypocrite for telling people to avoid mistakes she has made. Just my view of it...
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Actually she still has contradicted things AFTER she has said them on many occassions too. Basically she talks the talk only. Like I said she is a poor example to be leading. If you are gonna tell others how to live (especially in the manner she does) then you damn well better have your shit together yourself. There are better people with better examples to follow. There are people who are better representatives of our issues. Dr. Laura is a poor example and a libility to our values.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:55:39 AM EDT
Far out!! So we have a powerfull female voice on the airwaves actually advocating and actively trying to transform the views of people, that only someone like she can, to our side.......and she's not perfect??......She's actually human[shock] Works for me.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:07:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Oh God, the examples are endless. But basically she has a "do as I say, not as I do" life. She berates women who put of children and family for their careers but she herself did the very same thing. She used to really harp on womens morals, porn, etc. and then came those nude pics of her. Basically she says one thing and did another. It would not surprise me at all if despite her professed views she would personally not allow any guns in her home. She is a extremely poor example of a person and compensates by judging others harshly to feel better about her own genuine lack of character. Having her support our issue actually hurts us more than it helps. Anyone who listens to (or admires) her should take a long objective look at her, her past and actions and think about if this is the kind of person you want telling you how to live your life.
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All the examples you cite are true, but they are all in the past. She freely admits to having lived a life completely opposite what she now espouses. However, she seems to be living a life NOW that closely mirrors what she preaches. Just because she made mistakes in her past does not make her a hypocrite. Using that model, I'm a hypocrite because once upon a time I believed the whole "no-one-needs-an-AK-47" thing, but I now own 2. Now, if the photos, and sacrificing her kid, etc., were all taking place NOW, then I'd agree with you 100%.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: I agree with SteyrAUG, she is a hypocritical piece of shit and I can't stand the sound of her voice, and it really made me laugh when those pics of her naked hairy asshole showed up on the net. Got morals?
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Well, shit! I'm convinced! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:36:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod: All the examples you cite are true, but they are all in the past. She freely admits to having lived a life completely opposite what she now espouses. However, she seems to be living a life NOW that closely mirrors what she preaches. Just because she made mistakes in her past does not make her a hypocrite. Using that model, I'm a hypocrite because once upon a time I believed the whole "no-one-needs-an-AK-47" thing, but I now own 2. Now, if the photos, and sacrificing her kid, etc., were all taking place NOW, then I'd agree with you 100%.
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Seriously she is still at it. I don't have specifics because I haven't given a damn in some time. But my point was that I think I will look for better examples of moral leaders than Dr. Laura and Jimmy Swaggert. There is a surplus of more credible examples to follow.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:44:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: DrLaura: Of course! you have to teach your kids to defend themselves and my hiding the guns and teaching them that guns are bad, you are contributing to the [red]feminazation of males in this country.[/red] Do you want to raise a Man or a Wimp?
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[shock]Something that's been going on for years. Gender nullification. Unisex.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:45:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 11:46:15 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: I agree with SteyrAUG, she is a hypocritical piece of shit and I can't stand the sound of her voice, and it really made me laugh when those pics of her naked hairy asshole showed up on the net. Got morals?
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Well, shit! I'm convinced! [rolleyes]
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I can't believe I forgot this one. Hows this for AFTER she got her act together... Dec. 20, 2002 Maybe next time Dr. Laura Schlessinger wishes to regale her listeners with a heart-warming story of responsibility, she will think of her mother, if only for the novelty. As most of you know, Dr. Laura's 77-year-old mother was found on the floor of her condo after quietly decomposing into her carpeting for several months, not far from her famous daughter's radio studio.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:06:19 PM EDT
Because her mother had freely chosen to be ostracized from her entire family. As an adult, she (her mom) had the right to do that, and it seems to me that Dr. Laura simply went along with it, albeit knowing it was probably not the exactly correct thing to do. I'll agree that your example above is the closest valid example, but I think you may be being a bit hard on her. As for comparing her to Jimmy Swaggert.....PLEASE. Jimmy was a known fraud from the very beginning. My biggest beef with the good Dr. is that she often jumps the shit of a caller who needs (and will be open to) an amount of simple friendly guidance. That, in my opinion, turns people off, a lot of them good Conservatives who otherwise agree with her. I do LOVE it, whenever, when she verbally whips the shit out of someone who really deserves it. BTW, my comment to Hellraiser was based on his entirely non-fact-referencing bitter post, not anything you said.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:13:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 12:15:41 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Because her mother had freely chosen to be ostracized from her entire family. As an adult, she (her mom) had the right to do that, and it seems to me that Dr. Laura simply went along with it, albeit knowing it was probably not the exactly correct thing to do. I'll agree that your example above is the closest valid example, but I think you may be being a bit hard on her. As for comparing her to Jimmy Swaggert.....PLEASE. Jimmy was a known fraud from the very beginning. My biggest beef with the good Dr. is that she often jumps the shit of a caller who needs (and will be open to) an amount of simple friendly guidance. That, in my opinion, turns people off, a lot of them good Conservatives who otherwise agree with her. I do LOVE it, whenever, when she verbally whips the shit out of someone who really deserves it. BTW, my comment to Hellraiser was based on his entirely non-fact-referencing bitter post, not anything you said.
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I think... 1. Dr. Laura just better covers her shit these days. 2. Leopards don't really change their spots. 3. Jimmy and Laura have lots in common. 4. Dr. Laura is more critical of other people than I am of Dr. Laura. 5. You should really look for better people to hold up as role models. If Idi Amin was pro gun would you really respect him?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:19:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I think... 1. Dr. Laura just better covers her shit these days. 2. Leopards don't really change their spots. 3. Jimmy and Laura have lots in common. 4. Dr. Laura is more critical of other people than I am of Dr. Laura. 5. You should really look for better people to hold up as role models. If Idi Amin was pro gun would you really respect him?
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I still think you're being a little rough. I have no reason to suspect that she's covering anything up at this point. OTOH, if you know something factual I don't, I'll happily reconsider my position. Hope you don't hold this against me when I come see you to swap out some toys! Be nice! [bd]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:26:14 PM EDT
If that is your best shot at showing she is a POS hypocrite you did a very poor job. You might want to look up the definition of a hypocrite and you will see it doesn't cover if you give advice based on past poor choices. Regarding her career and her child, she has answered this question many times. However, her critics are not listening. She has said many times children should be with the parents and not day care. When she is at work her husband is home with the kid. How is that hypocritical? My guess is that your dislike of Dr. Laura is because she would not agree with your lifestyle.(said in my best talk radio psych. voice) [bounce] By the way, the pictures were not of her harry asshole. The photos were more from the front and side. I thought they looked pretty good. Taking photos with the one you love that are meant to be kept secret is a far cry from a porn queen.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:29:28 PM EDT
By the way, the pictures were not of her harry asshole. The photos were more from the front and side. I thought they looked pretty good.
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I think harry was her husband. [bounce]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:32:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 12:33:27 PM EDT by Zaphod]
Originally Posted By chdaal4: If that is your best shot at showing she is a POS hypocrite you did a very poor job. You might want to look up the definition of a hypocrite and you will see it doesn't cover if you give advice based on past poor choices. Regarding her career and her child, she has answered this question many times. However, her critics are not listening.
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Exactly...
My guess is that your dislike of Dr. Laura is because she would not agree with your lifestyle.(said in my best talk radio psych. voice)
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Thank you for taking me out of Steyr's sights! That being said... [peep]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:35:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chdaal4: If that is your best shot at showing she is a POS hypocrite you did a very poor job. You might want to look up the definition of a hypocrite and you will see it doesn't cover if you give advice based on past poor choices. Regarding her career and her child, she has answered this question many times. However, her critics are not listening. She has said many times children should be with the parents and not day care. When she is at work her husband is home with the kid. How is that hypocritical? My guess is that your dislike of Dr. Laura is because she would not agree with your lifestyle.(said in my best talk radio psych. voice) [bounce] By the way, the pictures were not of her harry asshole. The photos were more from the front and side. I thought they looked pretty good. Taking photos with the one you love that are meant to be kept secret is a far cry from a porn queen.
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No I dislike Dr. Laura because she is a POS hypocrite who despite her myriad past failings has the nerve to tell others how to live. Do you really want a former crack addict telling you how to avoid drugs? Or would you prefer someone who did manage to avoid drugs to to you how they did it? And Dr. Laura probably would NOT approve of my lifestyle since I didn't consult her prior to deciding how to live.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:38:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 12:38:49 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By chdaal4: If that is your best shot at showing she is a POS hypocrite you did a very poor job. You might want to look up the definition of a hypocrite and you will see it doesn't cover if you give advice based on past poor choices. Regarding her career and her child, she has answered this question many times. However, her critics are not listening.
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Exactly...
My guess is that your dislike of Dr. Laura is because she would not agree with your lifestyle.(said in my best talk radio psych. voice)
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Thank you for taking me out of Steyr's sights! That being said... [peep]
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So hypothetically IF Sarah Brady and Rosie O'Donnell decided they were NOW pro gun you would endorse them as good candidates for pro second amendment advocates? Would you elect them to the NRA Board of Directors? Are you finally understanding?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:45:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: So hypothetically IF Sarah Brady and Rosie O'Donnell decided they were NOW pro gun you would endorse them as good candidates for pro second amendment advocates? Would you elect them to the NRA Board of Directors? Are you finally understanding?
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I'll tell you what: If Sarah and Rosie came out in public and stated that they had been wrong all these years, and that they had finally seen the light on the issue of the Second Amendment, and they began to actively support US, why would I say no? As to your earlier question: YES, I think a person who was once a dope addict and then pulled himself out of it has far more credibility to tell me how awful drugs are then someone who got it from the get-go but doesn't know what it's really like to suffer the horrors of drugs. I'll remind you that Reagan was once a Democrat. Did that disqualify him to be a Republican in your book? C'mon, Steyr. If you don't like the woman, fine. You're certainly not alone, even among Conservatives, but I think you're acting more like you accuse HER of acting. Chill, dude. She's still on our side, and is doing more for families and children than all these TRUE hypocrites on the Left.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 12:56:46 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: So hypothetically IF Sarah Brady and Rosie O'Donnell decided they were NOW pro gun you would endorse them as good candidates for pro second amendment advocates? Would you elect them to the NRA Board of Directors? Are you finally understanding?
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I'll tell you what: If Sarah and Rosie came out in public and stated that they had been wrong all these years, and that they had finally seen the light on the issue of the Second Amendment, and they began to actively support US, why would I say no?
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For the same reason you would not make a "reformed" Adolf Hitler a spokesperson for Jewish Advocacy. Even if he was part Jewish.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: As to your earlier question: YES, I think a person who was once a dope addict and then pulled himself out of it has far more credibility to tell me how awful drugs are then someone who got it from the get-go but doesn't know what it's really like to suffer the horrors of drugs.
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Ahh but that's not what I said was it? I said would you want a former crack addict telling you how to avoid drug. Dr. Laura is the equavalent. Now if she were simply telling people how she fucked up her life as a example I wouldn't have a issue with her. But she is not doing that, she is telling others how to live and judging them accordingly. Who is hse to judge?
Originally Posted By Zaphod: I'll remind you that Reagan was once a Democrat. Did that disqualify him to be a Republican in your book?
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Good try but one I'm not a giant Reagan fan. Two Truman was a Democrat and I respect the hell out of him. Political affiliation (especially former old day Democrats) does not make one a failure. But to use your example, if Hillary Clinton changed parties are you voting for her?
Originally Posted By Zaphod: C'mon, Steyr. If you don't like the woman, fine. You're certainly not alone, even among Conservatives, but I think you're acting more like you accuse HER of acting. Chill, dude. She's still on our side, and is doing more for families and children than all these TRUE hypocrites on the Left.
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I don't divide hypocrtical pieces of shit into those on "our side" and "their side." They are all in the same group. And it isn't her values I dislike, it is her. There are many people with similar values who I have no problem with. They are living as they choose to live. My problem begins when people start to tell others how to live. It increases when they are not exactly perfect themselves. And to judge her as harshly as she willfully judges others: She is a failed whore. Who is she to tell others anything?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:21:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: For the same reason you would not make a "reformed" Adolf Hitler a spokesperson for Jewish Advocacy. Even if he was part Jewish.
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For heavan's sake, Steyr! You're comparing a person with whom you have a disagreement with to a mass murderer! Is your sense of perspective that flawed?
Ahh but that's not what I said was it? I said would you want a former crack addict telling you how to avoid drug. Dr. Laura is the equavalent. Now if she were simply telling people how she fucked up her life as a example I wouldn't have a issue with her. But she is not doing that, she is telling others how to live and judging them accordingly. Who is hse to judge?
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I don't see the difference between what I said and what you said.
Good try but one I'm not a giant Reagan fan. Two Truman was a Democrat and I respect the hell out of him. Political affiliation (especially former old day Democrats) does not make one a failure. But to use your example, if Hillary Clinton changed parties are you voting for her?
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If she became a true Conservative, I ask again: why would I want to turn her away?
I don't divide hypocrtical pieces of shit into those on "our side" and "their side." They are all in the same group.
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On that we agree, but I disagree that she's a hypocrite for something she did years ago and has since stopped doing and condemned.
And it isn't her values I dislike, it is her.
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Ya think? [;)]
My problem begins when people start to tell others how to live. It increases when they are not exactly perfect themselves.
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Then who are you to criticize Hitler? Are YOU perfect?
And to judge her as harshly as she willfully judges others:
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A fair standard.
She is a failed whore. Who is she to tell others anything?
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An UNFAIR accusation, unsupported by facts. And if SHE'S failed, then what do you consider success? She's financially successful, has a loving family, and a legion of fans. Detractors? Sure, so did Mother Theresa (not to compare them, but rather to show that no one on this planet is immune from some asshole who just plain doesn't like them, no matter how good they are.)
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:33:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 1:37:14 PM EDT by NickFury]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:50:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: For the same reason you would not make a "reformed" Adolf Hitler a spokesperson for Jewish Advocacy. Even if he was part Jewish.
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For heavan's sake, Steyr! You're comparing a person with whom you have a disagreement with to a mass murderer! Is your sense of perspective that flawed?
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Not exactly comparing, just demonstrating a point. You seem to be willing to overlook a persons demonstated past if they now support a new value system. And while I am willing to forgive a persons past transgressions (assumning they are not especialy heinous) I stop short of qualifying them as judges and teachers of value systems.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Ahh but that's not what I said was it? I said would you want a former crack addict telling you how to avoid drug. Dr. Laura is the equavalent. Now if she were simply telling people how she fucked up her life as a example I wouldn't have a issue with her. But she is not doing that, she is telling others how to live and judging them accordingly. Who is hse to judge?
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I don't see the difference between what I said and what you said.
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Ok here it is: I said "Do you really want a former crack addict telling you how to avoid drugs? Or would you prefer someone who did manage to avoid drugs to to you how they did it?" You replied "YES, I think a person who was once a dope addict and then pulled himself out of it has far more credibility to tell me how awful drugs are then someone who got it from the get-go but doesn't know what it's really like to suffer the horrors of drugs." BUT, I was asking about a crack dealer to tell people about the horrors of drugs. I was asking about a crack dealer as a person to teach others how to AVOID drug use. Obviously the crack dealer failed and is a poor candidate for teaching people how to succeed in AVOIDING drugs. In much the same way Dr. Laura failed time and again and is in no postion to tell anyone how to do it right the first time or to judge others who have failed or are currently faling. Imagine the crack dealer condeming someone for trying drugs. Now the crack dealer can serve as a warning of what happens if you fail and the dangers of poor decisions. And Dr. Laura is qualified to do the same. If she had a "don't do what I did approach" we wouldn't be having this discussion. But despite her many past failures she is instructing people on how to act (something she could not do correctly either) and judging them accordingly despite her own many faliures.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Good try but one I'm not a giant Reagan fan. Two Truman was a Democrat and I respect the hell out of him. Political affiliation (especially former old day Democrats) does not make one a failure. But to use your example, if Hillary Clinton changed parties are you voting for her?
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If she became a true Conservative, I ask again: why would I want to turn her away?
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Because like Dr. Laura she is a poor representative due to her contradictory past. If Hillary became a true conservative I'd be happy she found her way but would never want her to represent me or my views, even if they are now the same.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I don't divide hypocrtical pieces of shit into those on "our side" and "their side." They are all in the same group.
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On that we agree, but I disagree that she's a hypocrite for something she did years ago and has since stopped doing and condemned.
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She is a hypocrite for judging others in light of her own past.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: My problem begins when people start to tell others how to live. It increases when they are not exactly perfect themselves.
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Then who are you to criticize Hitler? Are YOU perfect?
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No I am not perfect. But I am better than Hitler and therefore, like all other non mass murderers qualified to judge and criticize him. Now if I were a mass murderer, or a reformed mass murderer, I would not have this qualification. And in much the same way Dr. Laura is not qualified to judge others who are guilty of many things she has done herself. But she does anyway making her a hypocrite.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: And to judge her as harshly as she willfully judges others:
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A fair standard.
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Apply that to everthing else she does.
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: She is a failed whore. Who is she to tell others anything?
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An UNFAIR accusation, unsupported by facts. And if SHE'S failed, then what do you consider success? She's financially successful, has a loving family, and a legion of fans. Detractors? Sure, so did Mother Theresa (not to compare them, but rather to show that no one on this planet is immune from some asshole who just plain doesn't like them, no matter how good they are.)
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Saddam Hussein was financially successful, had a loving family, and a legion of fans. But none of these things make you a successful "person." She is a "failed whore" because she criticizes others and sits in judgement of them when she has done the exact same things. Had she simply (and honestly) changed her ways, she would have been a successful person. But that is not what she did.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:50:54 PM EDT
Dr. Laura takes advantage of people who are confused enough to call a Radio Show for psych help. She uses their questions as a spring board for rants and to bite their heads off. She's more concerned with showing off and keeping track of time and getting the caller to shut up so she can run the next set of overpriced commercials. Why does call her show "Dr. Laura" anyway? If I remember her Doctorate has nothing to do with counseling. Seems kinda sleazy to me.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:00:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VoodooChile: Dr. Laura takes advantage of people who are confused enough to call a Radio Show for psych help. She uses their questions as a spring board for rants and to bite their heads off. She's more concerned with showing off and keeping track of time and getting the caller to shut up so she can run the next set of overpriced commercials. Why does call her show "Dr. Laura" anyway? If I remember her Doctorate has nothing to do with counseling. Seems kinda sleazy to me.
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She has a PhD in Physiology, which gives her the right to be called Dr. Laura. Case closed. As for her ranting and ripping people's heads off, I agree with you that she does that far too often, and IMO she would be accepted far more easily by more people on our side of the political fence if she'd just tone it down a bit. Admittedly, I have to wonder why anyone would call a talk show to get advice about something as serious as some of the things that come up. OTOH, she's got one of the largest audiences around, so she's obviously doing something right. Also, with an audience like that, she can charge anything she wants. It's the same for Rush, Sean and (on TV) O'Reilly.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:04:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VoodooChile: Dr. Laura takes advantage of people who are confused enough to call a Radio Show for psych help. She uses their questions as a spring board for rants and to bite their heads off. She's more concerned with showing off and keeping track of time and getting the caller to shut up so she can run the next set of overpriced commercials. Why does call her show "Dr. Laura" anyway? If I remember her Doctorate has nothing to do with counseling. Seems kinda sleazy to me.
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She calls herself a "licensed psychotherapist." Her Ph.D., however is in physiology, not psychology. Though she does have an MFCC (a certificate in marriage, family, and child counseling), the State of California, where she resides, does not consider her a psychotherapist. In fact, it is illegal in California to call oneself a psychotherapist without a state license, which she does not have.13 No one could receive an MFCC without knowing about this requirement; it is common knowledge in the psychological community. Whatever one may think of the requirement for state licenses, her claim that she is a "licensed psychotherapist" is on shaky ethical ground. Laura and the Sanctity of Marriage: Laura started dating her current husband, Lew Bishop, while he was still married to someone else and lived with him for nine years before they got married. Laura and Family Values: she has not spoken to her mother (who is now dead) in 15 years and is estranged from her sister. She claims that women with young children should stay home rather than have a career, but she is on the radio five days week and recently began a television show, in spite of the fact that she has a teenage son at home. She will not discuss her past on her show, claiming that it is irrelevant now, but, as several critics have pointed out, she refuses to take responsibility for her "wild" past and angrily dismisses charges of hypocrisy.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:23:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Not exactly comparing, just demonstrating a point. You seem to be willing to overlook a persons demonstated past if they now support a new value system.
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That statement is true, but only if the person demonstrates that they, too, follow the new system (and provided, of course, the new system is a good one).
And while I am willing to forgive a persons past transgressions (assumning they are not especialy heinous) I stop short of qualifying them as judges and teachers of value systems.
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Fair enough, but I still think it is overly harsh to claim a person in that situation is a hypocrite.
BUT, I was asking about a crack dealer to tell people about the horrors of drugs. I was asking about a crack dealer as a person to teach others how to AVOID drug use. Obviously the crack dealer failed and is a poor candidate for teaching people how to succeed in AVOIDING drugs.
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Steyr, you used the word ADDICT, not DEALER. That word makes a hell of a lot of difference...
In much the same way Dr. Laura failed time and again and is in no postion to tell anyone how to do it right the first time
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Why not? If I made a major mistake earlier in life, and I see you well on your way to doing the same, how is it a bad thing for me to tell you not to do it and why?
or to judge others who have failed or are currently faling.
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Ahhhh. Here you have a point, and it dovetails with my criticism of her as being too quick to jump down people's throats.
If she had a "don't do what I did approach" we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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In this we agree. If she were to be more..... I'll use the phrase "guidance-related".... toward those who are confused or who are simply making a mistake, she would come across much better. I believe that would be true even if she did rip the occaisional slimeball a well-deserved new one.
Because like Dr. Laura she is a poor representative due to her contradictory past. If Hillary became a true conservative I'd be happy she found her way but would never want her to represent me or my views, even if they are now the same.
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Normally, people who change sides like that become the most ardent of supporters of the new way, simply because they KNOW both sides of the argument. They can also be extremely persuasive because they know all the ins and outs of the other side's arguments. I'm not so sure it's wise to cast these people away en masse. It's probably best to handle them on a case-by-case basis. For example, if Hitler suddenly decided to join B'nai 'Brith (sorry, HAD to borrow your analogy) I'd be with you all the way, no matter HOW MUCH he recanted his past.
She is a hypocrite for judging others in light of her own past.
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Judging someone to a good standard when you, in the past, made mistakes and poor choices relative to that standard, but now live in accordance with the standard, does NOT make you a hypocrite. Jusging to a standard that you yourself DO NOT CURRENTLY adhere to IS hypocritical. I do not believe she does the latter.
Now if I were a reformed mass murderer, I would not have this qualification.
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Why? This is where I simply do not understand your position (and frankly, I think it's the root of our disagreement here). If a murderer comes to realize his guilt (AND pays for it), how is it a BAD thing for him to tell others that murder is wrong, and that they shouldn't do it?
And in much the same way Dr. Laura is not qualified to judge others who are guilty of many things she has done herself. But she does anyway making her a hypocrite.
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Is this where, as you describe above, a different approach with her callers would improve your view of her? Honest question...
Had she simply (and honestly) changed her ways, she would have been a successful person. But that is not what she did.
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I think she did, but I'm begining to see that perhaps what drives you (and other like-minded individuals I've met, BTW) up the wall is her aggressiveness when challenging her callers, without a hint of recognition that she herself made the same mistake/bad choice in the past. Am I begining to see the root of your position, even if I'm not ready to agree with it yet?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:32:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 2:36:05 PM EDT by Delta_3_63]
Dr. Laura is: - Condescending - Hypocritical - Preachy - Telling soccer moms to quit turning their sons into daughters. I'll take the good with the bad in this case.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:39:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: She calls herself a "licensed psychotherapist." Her Ph.D., however is in physiology, not psychology. Though she does have an MFCC (a certificate in marriage, family, and child counseling), the State of California, where she resides, does not consider her a psychotherapist. In fact, it is illegal in California to call oneself a psychotherapist without a state license, which she does not have.13 No one could receive an MFCC without knowing about this requirement; it is common knowledge in the psychological community. Whatever one may think of the requirement for state licenses, her claim that she is a "licensed psychotherapist" is on shaky ethical ground.
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Hmmmmm. I did a google search and didn't find anything substantive one way or the other. Regrettably (or perhaps...FORTUNATELY) I don't know enough about California law to make a conclusion one way or the other. However, I can't help but wonder that if what you allege was cut-and-dried, someone would have pulled it out by now, and documented it fully. This is especially true of the folks who hate her not because of what you or I may dislike about her, but rather because the HATE the essence of what she's teaching (which we all agree with, Dr. Laura notwithstanding).
Laura and the Sanctity of Marriage: Laura started dating her current husband, Lew Bishop, while he was still married to someone else and lived with him for nine years before they got married. Laura and Family Values: she has not spoken to her mother (who is now dead) in 15 years and is estranged from her sister.
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All true things that I think people would give her much less grief about if she would adress her own mistakes and poor choices. It's a delivery thing, again.
She claims that women with young children should stay home rather than have a career, but she is on the radio five days week and recently began a television show, in spite of the fact that she has a teenage son at home.
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It has been well established that when her son is home, either she or her husband are home. Now that the kid is older, I don't know if that's 100% true, but then again, the kid is old enough not to require supervision 100% of the time.
She will not discuss her past on her show, claiming that it is irrelevant now, but, as several critics have pointed out, she refuses to take responsibility for her "wild" past and angrily dismisses charges of hypocrisy.
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I'll say it one last time: If she addressed her past, half her critics would vanish. OTOH, most of her loudest critics don't hate HER as much as they FEAR that what she's teaching might actually resonate and catch on... I think I see your point, Steyr. I need to go home now and play with the [baby][baby] (the oldest of which turned 3 yesterday). Thanks for allowing me to see part of the reason a surprising number on our side seem to be critical of Dr. Laura, even if we agree on the essence of what she teaches. I'll think about it over the weekend and let you know. I'll tell you now, however, that even if I conclude that not addressing her past is a bit hypocritical, I will still listen to her and appreciate what she's doing for our country. What she's doing now isn't bad, and even if the messenger is flawed (aren't we all), it doesn't make the message any less valid. Thanks again for a great discussion. I hope to drop by and see you soon, and I promise we WON'T talk about Dr. Laura. Guns are MUCH more interesting! I think we can both agree on that! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:48:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 2:56:38 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Zaphod: That statement is true, but only if the person demonstrates that they, too, follow the new system (and provided, of course, the new system is a good one).
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Does not make them qualified to judge others or represent the new value system.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Fair enough, but I still think it is overly harsh to claim a person in that situation is a hypocrite.
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To judge others who are no different than you makes her a hypocrite.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Steyr, you used the word ADDICT, not DEALER. That word makes a hell of a lot of difference...
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My mistake, typo. Replace dealer with addict and you will still see the difference.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Why not? If I made a major mistake earlier in life, and I see you well on your way to doing the same, how is it a bad thing for me to tell you not to do it and why?
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Ah but would you judge or condemn them? Again, if Dr. Laura only served in a "don't make the mistakes I did" capacity things would be very different. She doesn't.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Ahhhh. Here you have a point, and it dovetails with my criticism of her as being too quick to jump down people's throats.
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And that is my primary issue. I actually agree with many of her "current and professed" politics. But she is a poor respresentative of them.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: In this we agree. If she were to be more..... I'll use the phrase "guidance-related".... toward those who are confused or who are simply making a mistake, she would come across much better. I believe that would be true even if she did rip the occaisional slimeball a well-deserved new one.
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And that was more or less my original point.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Normally, people who change sides like that become the most ardent of supporters of the new way, simply because they KNOW both sides of the argument. They can also be extremely persuasive because they know all the ins and outs of the other side's arguments. I'm not so sure it's wise to cast these people away en masse. It's probably best to handle them on a case-by-case basis. For example, if Hitler suddenly decided to join B'nai 'Brith (sorry, HAD to borrow your analogy) I'd be with you all the way, no matter HOW MUCH he recanted his past.
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And at the same time their past impeaches their credibility. Otherwise the DEA would be full of reformed drug addicts.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Judging someone to a good standard when you, in the past, made mistakes and poor choices relative to that standard, but now live in accordance with the standard, does NOT make you a hypocrite. Jusging to a standard that you yourself DO NOT CURRENTLY adhere to IS hypocritical. I do not believe she does the latter.
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No it is NOT a good thing. It opens the door for questioning the validity of the teachings due to the source. You and I are only qualifed to judge lesser men. Only greater men are qualified to judge you and I. And at the same time the better men privide a example of those who DID NOT fail where we might have to follow. Hence, the phrases "judge not lest ye be judged" and "who the f*ck are you to judge?"
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Quote By SteyrAUG: Now if I were a reformed mass murderer, I would not have this qualification.
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Why? This is where I simply do not understand your position (and frankly, I think it's the root of our disagreement here). If a murderer comes to realize his guilt (AND pays for it), how is it a BAD thing for him to tell others that murder is wrong, and that they shouldn't do it?
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Because despite the "reformation" a mass murder is still not better than Hitler having made the same mistake. He is NOT in a position to "judge" and can only serve as a example of what not to do.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Is this where, as you describe above, a different approach with her callers would improve your view of her? Honest question...
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Yes, if she acknowledged her past and was a "genuine" person who truly sought to help others and offer her "experiences" as a lesson, I could respect her.
Originally Posted By Zaphod: I think she did, but I'm begining to see that perhaps what drives you (and other like-minded individuals I've met, BTW) up the wall is her aggressiveness when challenging her callers, without a hint of recognition that she herself made the same mistake/bad choice in the past. Am I begining to see the root of your position, even if I'm not ready to agree with it yet?
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But you are wrong in your estimation of her. Her actions demonstrate she really has not changed. And that makes her a hypocrite because she really "does" know better.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:53:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Delta_3_63: Dr. Laura is: - Condescending - Hypocritical - Preachy - Telling soccer moms to quit turning their sons into daughters. I'll take the good with the bad in this case.
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LOL. Best argument yet. This is gonna hurt....I suppose I'd rather have Dr. Laura talking to the soccer mons than Oprah or Rosie. But I honestly think I might prefer Charles Manson to Oprah and Rosie too. I'm glad Dr. Laura is possibly doing some good. But she reamins a liability to all who share her views for the many reasons cited above. I simply believe we have better advocates and role models to offer.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:55:04 PM EDT
I don't see why people would be mad at her for giving her advice on how too live,after all the only reason she's giving it is because people are calling her up and asking for it. She seems to be doing a pretty good job at it since people keep asking and even more want to hear her advice. I have a feeling that if no one wanted to listen to her or hear her advice,there'd be no Dr. Laura. Its not like she's a character in 1984 standing in front of the camera directing you how to live,folks are asking for it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:55:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Oh God, the examples are endless. But basically she has a "do as I say, not as I do" life. She berates women who put of children and family for their careers but she herself did the very same thing. She used to really harp on womens morals, porn, etc. and then came those nude pics of her. Basically she says one thing and did another.
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The nude pictures were made back in the '80s -- long before we heard anything about her. People can change their minds.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:44:27 PM EDT
[b]Hey this is great that we can involve ourselves in a debate about whether or not Dr Laura is a hypocrite or whatever but...[/b] [red][size=4]...HAVE YOU ALL LOST SIGHT OF WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT??[/red][/size=4] [b]a NATIONAL radio show that SOCCER MOMS listen to. And one of their "idols" have planted a PRO SECOND AMENDMENT seed in their feeble little minds!!![/b] Ladies and Gentlemen... The defense rests.
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