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Posted: 9/30/2011 8:15:35 PM EST
Bombshell: DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF

Katie Pavlich
Townhall.com
Oct 01, 2011

Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. ATF agents wouldn’t be reassigned to other positions, just simply let go. Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.

“It’s a serious white paper being circulated, how far they’d get with it I don’t know,” a confidential source said.

After a town hall meeting about Operation Fast and Furious in Tucson, Ariz. on Monday, ATF Whistleblower Vince Cefalu, who has been key in exposing details about Operation Fast and Furious, confirmed the elimination of ATF has been circulating as a serious idea for sometime now and that a white paper outlining the plan does exist.

(story continues here).
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:17:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:18:25 PM EST
We could only get so lucky.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:18:55 PM EST
I can't decide who I would rather have handling weapons issues, the BATFE, or the DEA.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:20:37 PM EST
Hell yeah!

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:21:35 PM EST
ATF has been a rogue agency since it was formed. Kill it. TT
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:21:36 PM EST
This would require the Executive Branch to admit fault. Massive Congressional hearings in an election year, and so forth....

If Obama spilled a glass of water, he'd find a way to blame it on Bush, the "banksters", Europe, et cetera.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:21:56 PM EST
In on 1.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:22:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:23:44 PM EST
Yeah, and the re-org into the present day TSA has been an overwhelming success.

Obama's dismantling of the ATF will do to gun ownership what TSA did to "the joy of air travel."
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:23:49 PM EST
I hope eveyr single law they created since 1934 goes away too; from the NFA to the CGA...






















I can dream, can I?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:24:15 PM EST
I can believe there is a document proposing the elimination of the ATF, as for the actual elimination of the ATF, well I'll believe that when I see it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:25:03 PM EST
Do it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:26:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:26:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:27:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
I can believe there is a document proposing the elimination of the ATF, as for the actual elimination of the ATF, well I'll believe that when I see it.


Didn't they do the same right before Waco?

Reichstag here we come.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:29:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:30:35 PM EST by ArmyInfantryVet]
I fucking hate the ATF. To me, I get the impression that ATF looks to create criminals out of ordinary people.

Where as the FBI has a Old West Lawmen/Sheriffs mentality where bad guys are bank robbers, con men, murderers, and rapists, not regular everyday people.

Just the vibe that I get from either organization.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:35:28 PM EST
not going to fucking happen...
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:37:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
I can't decide who I would rather have handling weapons issues, the BATFE, or the DEA.


I'd rather have the IRS handling the NFA issues and the FBI handling licenses and weapons enforcement.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:40:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:42:39 PM EST
Won't change anything if the GCA and NFA are still on the books.

ATFE was moved to the Justice Department from the Treasury Department about a decade ago in order to "clean them up". Didn't work very well, did it?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:43:11 PM EST
DOJ doesn't have the authority to get rid of the ATF.

They were created by a act of Congress. It will take an act of Congress to get rid of them.

What a happy day it will be when the federal firearms laws are enforced by 15000 fbi agents or 30000 homeland security agents instead of 2000 atf agents.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:45:24 PM EST
The F may be up for grabs. But the A,T,&E division isnt on the chopping block. Bet the IRS, DOJ, and DHS are all scratching their nuts hoping to get that slice of the pie.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:45:31 PM EST
If they abolish the ATF, I will host an open bar party, yall are all invited.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:47:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:48:17 PM EST by GarandM1]

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
If they abolish the ATF, I will host an open bar party, yall are all invited.

Okay, but just as long as there won't be any tattooed or fat people there. "Tatties" and "Fatties", so to speak.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:50:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 8:53:20 PM EST by packingXDs]

Originally Posted By GarandM1:
Won't change anything if the GCA and NFA are still on the books.

ATFE was moved to the Justice Department from the Treasury Department about a decade ago in order to "clean them up". Didn't work very well, did it?

Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA.
We’ve heard this was a low level, "rogue” operation, turns out high level officials in the Justice Department, DEA, FBI, DHS, and even members of the White House national security team knew about Operation Fast and Furious.





ETA:

Fuck Chrome and this editor, and the ATF.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:50:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
If they abolish the ATF, I will host an open bar party, yall are all invited.

Okay, but just as long as there won't be any tattooed or fat people there. "Tatties" and "Fatties", so to speak.



I cant come to my own party?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:57:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 9:00:16 PM EST by Tekka]
I'm pretty damn sure the ATF was smuggling guns to the cartels because people high up in the US government don't want the Mexicans to keep trying to destroy the cartels and end corruption in their country. The more this is investigated the more we'd probably find that people high up in the government are getting supplied with drugs and being paid millions of dollars by the cartels.

*tinfoil on*
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:04:09 PM EST
the cia wasn't abolished around the iran contra affair, so idk.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:05:58 PM EST
cAN i GET IN?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:08:29 PM EST
I'd like Scarlett Johannsen to come riding into my room naked on a unicorn, while we're at it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:09:43 PM EST
If we look at it strictly from the perspective of downsizing government, then this is a good start. However, Holder and Zero must still answer for Fast & Furious.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:18:40 PM EST
Eliminate BATFE and replace it with nothing.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:20:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:20:55 PM EST
We can only hope
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:22:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By DaBeamz:


Don't cheer, I'm sure the 450 agents let go will be good guys and all the treasonous ones will be kept because A: they are willing to violate our rights and break the law and B: because they kept their mouths shut about everyone above them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:23:40 PM EST
still makes me nervous
ATF at its heart is still a regulatory agency
FBI is straight up law enforcement
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:26:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By DaBeamz:


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:27:22 PM EST
Our resident drug warriors will be sad to see it go.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:31:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sandman556:
Our resident drug warriors will be sad to see it go.

BATFED? That's a bit of a stretch.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:34:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottedward58:
Originally Posted By DaBeamz:


Don't cheer, I'm sure the 450 agents let go will be good guys and all the treasonous ones will be kept because A: they are willing to violate our rights and break the law and B: because they kept their mouths shut about everyone above them.

Exactly. IF anything happens at all.

Government NEVER cuts off it's own hand.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:36:08 PM EST
And that will just lead to a bunch of idiots going to other agencies to fuck them up even more. Doesn't really fix the problem and may even make it 10x worse. Fire them all!
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:40:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By DaBeamz:


Pft... Lazy.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:44:46 PM EST
Hey folks.......................Watch What The Other Hand Is Doing.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:03:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
still makes me nervous
ATF at its heart is still a regulatory agency
FBI is straight up law enforcement


The problem with the ATF is that they ARE a regulatory agency, which means they have to find irregularities to justify their own existence.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:05:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By TecRsq:
Hey folks.......................Watch What The Other Hand Is Doing.


Yep, exactly what I was thinking...

At 1st I was like , but then I was like who is going to handle all the firearms related laws, paperwork and enfocement?

I'm thinking, its a move by PBO and the Puppet Masters to somehow start squeezing us again...

I DO NOT TRUST THEM....
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:22:36 PM EST
Before the party starts, WTF will the asshats in the DOJ come up with to replace it?

Do you think the current DOJ will disband the BATF and then just walk away?

Be careful what you wish for. The BATF ain't perfect but the clowns in Washington DC can easily come up with something worse.

The BATF is the scapegoats, this thing goes much further up the food chain then the BATF. The real problem lays above them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:20:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By USMCRONIN:
Before the party starts, WTF will the asshats in the DOJ come up with to replace it?

Do you think the current DOJ will disband the BATF and then just walk away?

Be careful what you wish for. The BATF ain't perfect but the clowns in Washington DC can easily come up with something worse.

The BATF is the scapegoats, this thing goes much further up the food chain then the BATF. The real problem lays above them.


Yes this was my first thought. No way that much power and money is just going to be "shut down".
It will be "purged" and a meaner, leaner, agency will rise to replace it and succeed where ATF failed.
Don't fool yourselves.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:23:39 PM EST
I wonder what this would do to the ATF "opinons"...things like the old Colt Moderator being a silencer, not being able to tie a string to a garand, etc...
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