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Posted: 12/23/2003 2:17:25 PM EDT
Since Malvo's getting life, I thought I'd spout off on my view of cruel and unusual punishment.

I personally think it's certainly cruel to lock away someone for life who's only 17.  A lot of people say "Good - let him suffer!" but retribution isn't part of our penal system.  We don't hang prisoners upside down by their feet and whack them with sticks every day.

We don't starve prisoners and zap them with electric shocks for fun.  We put them away from society both as punishment for their crimes and to keep society safer.

The cost is certainly excessive.  Some prisons run $30-40k/year per inmate.  Some say this is cheaper that fighting a death sentence appeal for 20 years, which may be true.

But, to tell a 17 year old he's in jail for the next 60 or 70 years with no chance of getting out, well that's just not right.

The only decent thing to do is to execute them.  My state is the only one left that uses the firing squad, but they are considering getting rid of it.  Again, it comes down to cruel and unusual punishment.  I think it's highly cruel to send huge amounts of electricity through someone until blood shoots out of their eyes, all their muscles contract until bones break, and then wait for them to die.

The gas chamber and lethal injection are the same.  Hanging isn't even that effective - unless the neck snaps, the guy just hangs there until he suffocates.  Fat people who get hanged have a propensity to have their heads pop off, which is pretty gruesome. A firing squad is not only cheap, but instantly effective.  In my opinion, it is the most humane way to go.

If we as a nation decide not to lower ourselves to the level of the barbarian, we must implement our punishments as humanely as possible.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:26:07 PM EDT
The only thing more cruel is having an execution date that gets postponed 23 times.  China is not the shining star of freedom and democracy, but I like the way they execute people:  death penalty verdict comes in, the prisoner is taken out to the courtyard, and shot in the back of the head.  Why complicate things?  

Malvo deserves the death penalty.    
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:31:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
The only thing more cruel is having an execution date that gets postponed 23 times.  China is not the shining star of freedom and democracy, but I like the way they execute people:  death penalty verdict comes in, the prisoner is taken out to the courtyard, and shot in the back of the head.  Why complicate things?  

Malvo deserves the death penalty.    
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agreed.[:)]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:49:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
The only thing more cruel is having an execution date that gets postponed 23 times.  China is not the shining star of freedom and democracy, but I like the way they execute people:  death penalty verdict comes in, the prisoner is taken out to the courtyard, and shot in the back of the head.  Why complicate things?  

Malvo deserves the death penalty.    
View Quote
Yeah, in China, they don't even complicate things with trials, either. The government just rounds up the folks they don't like and gig 'em. If you're Chinese, you'd better love this system, because if you complain, you're next.

Fuck Malvo, fuck his pal Mohammed. These fuckwits can spend the rest of their days cowering in fear of being ass-raped, again, and that'll suit me fine. Although I've never been incarcerated, I've been inside county jails from time to time, and prison is hell on earth. A suitable punishment for these jackasses, in my opinion. Better they were wiped from the earth already, but it just didn't work out that way. Perhaps we'll luck out, and these shitbags will go the way of Dahmer.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 3:20:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlackMountainArmory:
Since Malvo's getting life, I thought I'd spout off on my view of cruel and unusual punishment.

I personally think it's certainly cruel to lock away someone for life who's only 17.  A lot of people say "Good - let him suffer!" but retribution isn't part of our penal system.  We don't hang prisoners upside down by their feet and whack them with sticks every day.

We don't starve prisoners and zap them with electric shocks for fun.  We put them away from society both as punishment for their crimes and to keep society safer.

The cost is certainly excessive.  Some prisons run $30-40k/year per inmate.  Some say this is cheaper that fighting a death sentence appeal for 20 years, which may be true.

But, to tell a 17 year old he's in jail for the next 60 or 70 years with no chance of getting out, well that's just not right.

The only decent thing to do is to execute them.  My state is the only one left that uses the firing squad, but they are considering getting rid of it.  Again, it comes down to cruel and unusual punishment.  I think it's highly cruel to send huge amounts of electricity through someone until blood shoots out of their eyes, all their muscles contract until bones break, and then wait for them to die.

The gas chamber and lethal injection are the same.  Hanging isn't even that effective - unless the neck snaps, the guy just hangs there until he suffocates.  Fat people who get hanged have a propensity to have their heads pop off, which is pretty gruesome. A firing squad is not only cheap, but instantly effective.  In my opinion, it is the most humane way to go.

If we as a nation decide not to lower ourselves to the level of the barbarian, we must implement our punishments as humanely as possible.
View Quote


Sniffle, sniffle.  Good grief!
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 3:41:54 PM EDT

But, to tell a 17 year old he's in jail for the next 60 or 70 years with no chance of getting out, well that's just not right.
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But will he stay in for 60 or 70 years?  I seriously doubt it!  
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:25:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 73wcf4440:

But, to tell a 17 year old he's in jail for the next 60 or 70 years with no chance of getting out, well that's just not right.
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But will he stay in for 60 or 70 years?  I seriously doubt it!  
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Im expecting within a few years he will be killed in prison.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:34:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Taxman:
Im expecting within a few years he will be killed in prison.
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BINGO - if he's released into the public population they'll kill him in a heart beat.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:51:01 PM EDT
So that Nation of Islam stuff won't mean dick in prison?  I thought he'd be brought into the group and protected?  Is that not the case?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:31:17 PM EDT
Since the Constitution prohibits cuel AND unusual, one or the other should be OK.

Take for example a judge that sentenced a man to sit in a pen with pigs for a length of time that I dont remember, for calling a cop a pig. That was in addition to the punishment he got for whatever the crime he committed was.

Unusual? Yes. Cruel? Not by a long shot.

Or how about flogging? Cruel? I guess some people would consider it cruel. Unusual? No. Flogging has been around a very long time, has been used as a punishment up until the last part of the 20th century, and is probably still a listed punishment somewhere in Navy regs.

In order to satisfy the Constitutional ban, a punishment should have to be both cruel AND unusual. Executing a convicted murdering rapist by putting him in a room-sized, custom built for this purpose, microwave oven is both cruel AND unusual. Thus, it should rightly be banned.

But executing that same asshole by hanging, firing squad, or even drawing & quartering wouldnt be both cruel AND unusual (although the last certainly meets the first part of the requirement).
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:09:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tk421:
Since the Constitution prohibits cuel AND unusual, one or the other should be OK.

Take for example a judge that sentenced a man to sit in a pen with pigs for a length of time that I dont remember, for calling a cop a pig. That was in addition to the punishment he got for whatever the crime he committed was.

Unusual? Yes. Cruel? Not by a long shot.

Or how about flogging? Cruel? I guess some people would consider it cruel. Unusual? No. Flogging has been around a very long time, has been used as a punishment up until the last part of the 20th century, and is probably still a listed punishment somewhere in Navy regs.

In order to satisfy the Constitutional ban, a punishment should have to be both cruel AND unusual. Executing a convicted murdering rapist by putting him in a room-sized, custom built for this purpose, microwave oven is both cruel AND unusual. Thus, it should rightly be banned.

But executing that same asshole by hanging, firing squad, or even drawing & quartering wouldnt be both cruel AND unusual (although the last certainly meets the first part of the requirement).
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I've had the exact same thoughts(well, except for the microwave thing, but I like it). I'm in favor of prison being a terrifying deterrent, instead of a reformation process. Unfortunately, right now prison is neither terrifying, or reforming.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:35:57 PM EDT
There is still some other states that will have a shot at him so it not over yet he still has a chance at getting what he deserves.

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:56:31 PM EDT
When the amendment for cruel and unusual was written it was intended to prevent a practive known as "Keel Haul". Not the death penalty.

Anti-capital-punishment advocates often try to use that amendment to prove their point.




Same principal goes for liberals when they say there is no sporting purpose to our guns...
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:24:09 AM EDT
Is the death penalty cruel and unusual by the standards of the civilized world?

Is there any other "civilized" country in the world that still uses it?  FYI, China does not count.  I believe Russia has put a moratorium on it.  Japan may be the only other one.

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:26:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Is the death penalty cruel and unusual by the standards of the civilized world?

Is there any other "civilized" country in the world that still uses it?  FYI, China does not count.  I believe Russia has put a moratorium on it.  Japan may be the only other one.

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Do you wish to be more like the "civilized" world?  I don't.  That's why are forefathers and our ancestors came here.  There is something called US sovereignty, and the rest of the world and the the US Supreme Court need to get used to it.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:40:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Is the death penalty cruel and unusual by the standards of the civilized world?

Is there any other "civilized" country in the world that still uses it?  FYI, China does not count.  I believe Russia has put a moratorium on it.  Japan may be the only other one.

View Quote


This kind of thinking blows my fucking mind! Cruel and Unusual is going to Home Depot and getting you head blown off in front of your Husband or pumping some gas and getting your head blown off OR being a little kid waiting for the bus and getting shot in the stomach. I can on......... There was no bleeding heart jury to save these victims...no judge....just killed for no fucking reason what-so-ever! I cant even imagine standing there with my wife loading the car and her head explodes. Then you find out it was only because she was an easy target for some fucking coward piece of human shit waste of air!

SOME FUCKING PEOPLE NEED TO DIE FOR BEING SO FUCKING EVIL. How can anybody possibly justify not killing someone like this. He knew enough that he sure as fuck doesn't want to die. Give me a chance, I'll show Malvo and Muhammed the fucking meaning of cruel and unusual.

FUCK HIM AND ANY SHITHEAD LIKE HIM. SEND THEM TO HELL WHERE THEY BELONG!

COZ

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:50:36 AM EDT
I am not so sure he wil be somebodies "bitch".......He may thrive in the prison enviroment and be one of the big turds in the bowl!!................he should be taken out back and a couple .22 rounds put into the back of his head...........he gave his victims no more thought than that!!!..........Fuck him and his budy!!
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