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Posted: 9/3/2015 4:35:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 4:39:07 PM EDT by Wolverine1856]
I have some crown going in and baseboard trim. The first 3 pics are of the crown. Do this look right? I thought they would go in at a 45 but it looks like one piece go square to the wall and the second is cut to fit the contour of the crown. This dosent seem correct but I am not an expert at this. The first pic is looking up from eye height. The second is shooting straight up at the joint from the floor direction.




Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:37:08 PM EDT
It's called "coping"

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:37:11 PM EDT
no..that is not correct.  what type of saw are you using?
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:37:25 PM EDT
that's why they make caulk
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:37:28 PM EDT
Nope
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:38:09 PM EDT
That is called coping.  The first piece is cut square and the second is coped to fit.  What I see in your pictures is either not finished or just plain sucks.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:38:26 PM EDT
i would say that is incorrect

but once you caulk the splice it might look fine.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:38:38 PM EDT
No, it's not right. At least i've never seen it done that way before...
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:40:07 PM EDT
depends...paint or stain for the finish
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:40:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
It's called "coping"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MT9iVtiOEY
View Quote


But not a very good example of it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:40:15 PM EDT
It's been poorly coped.  The guys that work for me don't leave any visible gaps when coping.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:41:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 4:41:57 PM EDT by veritas_rasa]
Coping is the way to do it but it doesn't look like that was done. You only do 45s on the outside corners.
FYI, caulk is no substitute for a proper joint.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:41:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By redfish86:


But not a very good example of it.
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Originally Posted By redfish86:
Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
It's called "coping"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MT9iVtiOEY


But not a very good example of it.



Correct.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 4:42:29 PM EDT by Wolverine1856]
I'm not using anything. This is a contractor. Help me out here. Is the coping the problem or the sawing or what? How do I explain this to him.
It will be painted whitw.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:41:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk
View Quote


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:43:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USPcompact:


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.

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Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:43:44 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:


I'm not using anything. This is a contractor. Help me out here. Is the coping the problem or the sawing or what? How do I explain this to him.

It will be painted white.
View Quote


Click to 2:05 here:







 
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:45:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By kenmack:
That is called coping.  The first piece is cut square and the second is coped to fit.  What I see in your pictures is either not finished or just plain sucks.
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This.  

The coping on that sucks.  I have both coped and cut the pieces at a 45.  In the end, if it gets painted, your painter will just have to caulk or spackle the hell out of it.  I did framing, including finish carpentry for a while and painted houses for a while.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:46:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?



probably charged more.

fast
cheap
good.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:46:42 PM EDT
I wouldn't be happy with that.
If I'm paying for work to be done I expect it to be better then what I can do myself

In before your response that he says your being to picky
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:48:02 PM EDT
Your contractor needs this.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:48:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?


Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:48:23 PM EDT
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:49:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
I'm not using anything. This is a contractor. Help me out here. Is the coping the problem or the sawing or what? How do I explain this to him.
It will be painted whitw.
View Quote

The piece that does not reach the wall, the piece on the right in your first pic, should be cut to match, as exactly as possible, the curvature of the piece on the left.  Your contractor half-assed it.  it doesn't match well at all.

Like I said above, if it gets painted it really is not that big of a deal b/c a good painter will fix the gaps and massage the curves.  Now if your finish carpenter is also the painter, I hope he paints better than he does carpentry.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:49:29 PM EDT
OP, that is a pathetic install. Coping is fine if done right, personally I mitre my corners, either way that is unacceptable work for a carpenter charging money.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:51:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kevv:
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.
View Quote

Miter cut is actually faster b/c when you cope it you are generally doing it by hand.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:51:27 PM EDT
That's what caulk is made for.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:51:30 PM EDT


That is crappy work there OP.  I am not a carpenter but when I put up chair rail in my dining room I coped the corners.


.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:52:13 PM EDT
I have ran new home trim for big builders back in the day...it depends on what they pay you really
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:52:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USPcompact:


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?


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Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?



Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:53:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cacinok:

This.  

The coping on that sucks.  
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Originally Posted By Cacinok:
Originally Posted By kenmack:
That is called coping.  The first piece is cut square and the second is coped to fit.  What I see in your pictures is either not finished or just plain sucks.

This.  

The coping on that sucks.  


This is of course the origination for the expression, "I can't cope!"
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:54:09 PM EDT
Not done correctly. Both sides need to be cope'ed at the proper angle. That said, you need to hit it with caulk (or wood filler,) if you're staining.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:55:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 4:56:26 PM EDT by redfish86]
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Not done correctly. Both sides need to be cope'ed at the proper angle. That said, you need to hit it with caulk (or wood filler,) if you're staining.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote


I'm not sure you understand what "coping" is.

Only one piece of moulding is "coped".  (please refer to above imbedded video for a down and dirty explanation)


Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:56:13 PM EDT
Crappy way to do it in my opinion. (unless you are going to take the time to hand file it)


That said, Crown is not something you should try to do your self without two things:

1) the right saw....a sliding compound miter

2) knowledge
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:57:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 4:57:21 PM EDT by redfish86]
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Originally Posted By RANGER_556:
Crappy way to do it in my opinion. (unless you are going to take the time to hand file it)


That said, Crown is not something you should try to do your self without two three things:

1) the right saw....a sliding compound miter

2) knowledge

3) Lots of extra pieces of crown
View Quote


FIFY
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:57:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?



Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
If your painter takes his time w/ his prep, then no it won't matter.  I've hidden gaps far greater than that, but it takes time and patients.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 4:57:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?



Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.



I'm not a contractor, but my crownmolding looks better than that.

A coping saw has a thin blade on a shortened bow saw-looking handle.  You cut one piece to match the contours of the piece it goes up against.


Odds are, your dude is going to caulk that joint and then paint it.  Caulking sucks because in 4 or 5 years, the caulk will shrink and you'll be able to see the gap left.  Which means you get to recaulk the joint.

FWIW, I cut my inside corners on a 45.  I tried coping it and it looked like shit (because I'm not a pro and hate installing crown molding).
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:01:17 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:





Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:



Originally Posted By USPcompact:


Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:


Originally Posted By USPcompact:


Originally Posted By dneal33:

that's why they make caulk




Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.





I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?




There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  



Will this be stained or painted when completed?







Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
Yes, it matters big time. I do tons of crown here locally in Vegas, it's a huge part of my business. The problems with crown, is it lays on your wall and ceiling together, which constantly shift under normal conditions. The larger caulked joints WILL CRACK over time, and look really bad especially painted white, the cracks will show up black.



Make him redo that piece, it's unacceptable to charge for that type of joint. You hire us for our expertise in carpentry, this is poor work. Tight joints are more important with crown than most other paint grade trim, those cracks will be extremely visible.



 
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:01:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2015 5:03:34 PM EDT by veritas_rasa]
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Originally Posted By Kevv:
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.
View Quote

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:03:21 PM EDT
Holy shit that looks like ass. If you really don't give a fuck some paint and caulking would do but that is half assed no doubt. He just butted them up against one another.
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:03:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?



Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.


is he at least good looking?

no homo
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:03:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:

Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By Wolverine1856:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By dneal33:
that's why they make caulk


Fuck that.  If the guys that work for me did that they'd be pulling that down and doing it again.  The picture in the OP is an example of half-assed finish work.


I like what you are saying but what should he have done differently?


There should be a much tighter fit than what your pictures show.   There should not be any gap at the bottom of the crown, and the profile of the crown should fit snugly into the opposing piece.  

Will this be stained or painted when completed?



Painted. So does it really matter? For the record this guy is not cheap or fast. I'm starting to get pissed about it.


The whole reason for coping instead of mitering crown is so that the intersections of moldings don't open as the house moves with seasonal humidity changes.   To accomplish this, the original joint should not have visible gaps when installed.  Paint and caulk help smooth the transition point between moldings, but they should never be used to fill gaps.

To me, that joint would not be acceptable.  If I'm set up to install crown, it takes very little extra time for me to ensure a joint fits perfectly.  There's not much excuse for leaving it the way your picture shows.

Now, is it the worst I've seen?    Not by a long shot.  If the guy isn't the cheapest guy you could find or one who promised he'd be done in day, it should look better.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:07:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.
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Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:
Originally Posted By Kevv:
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.


Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:09:03 PM EDT
just trimming out houses Americans are not willing to do...if it's already done by your builder , it's done
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:10:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By USPcompact:



Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.

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Originally Posted By USPcompact:



Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:

...

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.
Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.



Got any pics?  I'd be interested to see that.





 
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:10:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USPcompact:


Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.

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Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:
Originally Posted By Kevv:
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.


Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.



Coping seemed to be a magical process.  It was easier for me to miter it.

My old man said I was retarded for inside mitering.  

Am I missing something here or was my old man right?
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:11:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By redfish86:


But not a very good example of it.
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Originally Posted By redfish86:
Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
It's called "coping"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MT9iVtiOEY


But not a very good example of it.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:14:42 PM EDT
I cope all my miters these days. I can do it faster than  others can miter.The pictures shown are a bad job. Coping is actually better. If its mitered with a 45 it will eventually open up.

"Putty and paint, makes a sinner a saint!"
Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:14:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By parshooter:

Got any pics?  I'd be interested to see that.

 
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Originally Posted By parshooter:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:
...
I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.
Bingo.  
Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.
Miter that?   No.

Got any pics?  I'd be interested to see that.

 


I'll get some tomorrow.  It's not a massive crown as most of the individual pieces are smaller, but it's a replica of an original Victorian pattern so it's got lots of small details.



Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:15:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rob78:


Coping seemed to be a magical process.  It was easier for me to miter it.

My old man said I was retarded for inside mitering.  

Am I missing something here or was my old man right?
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Originally Posted By rob78:
Originally Posted By USPcompact:
Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:
Originally Posted By Kevv:
That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.

I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.


Bingo.  

Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.

Miter that?   No.



Coping seemed to be a magical process.  It was easier for me to miter it.

My old man said I was retarded for inside mitering.  

Am I missing something here or was my old man right?


Your old man was spot on.

Link Posted: 9/3/2015 5:17:36 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By rob78:
Coping seemed to be a magical process.  It was easier for me to miter it.



My old man said I was retarded for inside mitering.  



Am I missing something here or was my old man right?
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Originally Posted By rob78:



Originally Posted By USPcompact:


Originally Posted By veritas_rasa:


Originally Posted By Kevv:

That looks terrible.  Its not difficult to miter cut and make it look good.  Shit it doesn't even take any longer.


I cut it rough and then use a small wood rasp or sanding drum chucked in a drill or dremel to cut to my line. It goes fast and I get very tight joints. Because corners are never square, you'll spend more time fussing with an inside miter than you will to just cope it.




Bingo.  



Just finished a room with a 7-piece crown.  The ceiling on most walls had a one inch rise in the middle and the walls all bowed into the room about 3/4 of an inch.



Miter that?   No.







Coping seemed to be a magical process.  It was easier for me to miter it.



My old man said I was retarded for inside mitering.  



Am I missing something here or was my old man right?
Old man was right. Outside corners get mitered. Squared off ends get mitered and folded back. Inside corners get coped. There's no magic once you learn to miter the end of the piece that you're planning to cope, then cut the cope right along the edge where the face transitions into the miter. Easy-peasy.

 
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