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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/21/2005 3:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 3:47:14 AM EDT by mobius]
now I've heard everything..............guess now I can start my own "church" and get tax exempt status, bilk old ladies out of their life savings, get a placard that says atheist and park at the clergy space at the hospital and else where, seek donations, and all the other trapping that come with being a "religion"...........but when it comes to molesting children, I'm going to draw the line there.


LAW OF THE LAND
Court rules atheism a religion
Decides 1st Amendment protects prison inmate's right to start study group
Posted: August 20, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

The court decided the inmate's First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.

Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, called the court's ruling "a sort of Alice in Wonderland jurisprudence."

"Up is down, and atheism, the antithesis of religion, is religion," said Fahling.

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion.

Fahling said today's ruling was "further evidence of the incoherence of Establishment Clause jurisprudence."

"It is difficult not to be somewhat jaundiced about our courts when they take clauses especially designed to protect religion from the state and turn them on their head by giving protective cover to a belief system, that, by every known definition other than the courts' is not a religion, while simultaneously declaring public expressions of true religious faith to be prohibited," Fahling said.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:46:04 AM EDT
Isn't that an OXYMORON?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:49:45 AM EDT
Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:57:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Isn't that an OXYMORON?



+1
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:02:14 AM EDT
I'm sorry, I do not believe in any god but why is it I and other people have to be classified as something? meaning athiest or prognostic or etc........ I believe in science/evolution as it is the best THEORY.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:03:13 AM EDT
A fart is perfume.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:07:37 AM EDT
Guess you cant escape religion...

I have a freind who wants to have "Jedi Knight" put on his dog tags as his religious preference...

Wonder if theyll let him do it...

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:13:43 AM EDT
IMO athiesm is as much a religon as any other faith. After all, religon is nothing more than a glorified faith.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:17:22 AM EDT
Actually, some fundamentalist Christians will argue
that atheism is a religion.
They often use that premise when the subject is religious
displays on public property.
Goes something like this as I recall: " If you ban the nativity
from in front of the courthouse, you are supporting atheism
which is a belief; and as a belief, it is a religion..", etc.
Fundamentalists do the same when they argue against evolution.
They will sometimes claim it is a "religion" since it is someones'
"belief". Therefore, they claim if one religion is taught in school, theirs'
should be.
Odd thinking, but I've heard this line of reasoning more than a few times.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:52:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Londo:
Actually, some fundamentalist Christians will argue
that atheism is a religion.
They often use that premise when the subject is religious
displays on public property.
Goes something like this as I recall: " If you ban the nativity
from in front of the courthouse, you are supporting atheism
which is a belief; and as a belief, it is a religion..", etc.
Fundamentalists do the same when they argue against evolution.
They will sometimes claim it is a "religion" since it is someones'
"belief". Therefore, they claim if one religion is taught in school, theirs'
should be.
Odd thinking, but I've heard this line of reasoning more than a few times.



And they are right.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:53:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Londo:
Actually, some fundamentalist Christians will argue
that atheism is a religion.
They often use that premise when the subject is religious
displays on public property.
Goes something like this as I recall: " If you ban the nativity
from in front of the courthouse, you are supporting atheism
which is a belief; and as a belief, it is a religion..", etc.
Fundamentalists do the same when they argue against evolution.
They will sometimes claim it is a "religion" since it is someones'
"belief". Therefore, they claim if one religion is taught in school, theirs'
should be.
Odd thinking, but I've heard this line of reasoning more than a few times.



And why not? It would tend to prevent people fromm preaching in the classroom if you can point out that their atheism is a religion, not simply a lack of belief. It also lays the groundwork for making people realize that the Constitution never was meant to keep religion out of government, but government out of religion.

Religion is inescapable, therefore you cannot keep religion out of government. Better my religion that the other guys . . .
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:05:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By Londo:
Actually, some fundamentalist Christians will argue
that atheism is a religion.
They often use that premise when the subject is religious
displays on public property.
Goes something like this as I recall: " If you ban the nativity
from in front of the courthouse, you are supporting atheism
which is a belief; and as a belief, it is a religion..", etc.
Fundamentalists do the same when they argue against evolution.
They will sometimes claim it is a "religion" since it is someones'
"belief". Therefore, they claim if one religion is taught in school, theirs'
should be.
Odd thinking, but I've heard this line of reasoning more than a few times.



And why not? It would tend to prevent people fromm preaching in the classroom if you can point out that their atheism is a religion, not simply a lack of belief. It also lays the groundwork for making people realize that the Constitution never was meant to keep religion out of government, but government out of religion.

Religion is inescapable, therefore you cannot keep religion out of government. Better my religion that the other guys . . .



It is a valid argument, considering the worldveiw of fundamentalist christians:

Atheists trust in man, and not God. If you put your faith in mankind, and not God, then you are worshiping the devil according to the christian worldveiw.

The constituition was written by people with a christian worldveiw. They wanted to avoid a papacy, not kick religous displays out of public buildings...
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:13:09 AM EDT
Any belief system can be considered a religion. Believing there is no supreme being could be the basis for a religion. However, most self-described athiests do not have a belief system. They have a lack of belief system. Many who call themselves athiests are really agnostic, but only know the term "athiest". Should people be treated differently because their beliefs differ from the majority? As long as those beliefs don't cause these people to do harm, I don't have a problem with it. Christianity personifies god, Buddhism recognizes nature as being in the same supreme entity. Not believing in a god similar to the commonly accepted one doesn't make a belief system any less of a religion. So it's not much of a stretch to extend that to include not believing in any god.

From a tax standpoint, you only need a belief system and regular meetings to discuss your beliefs to be considered a religion. Some of my friends and I looked into it a while back since we met weekly for lunch. Without income for the group, it's not very beneficial. Just being a religion doesn't make you any money.

If your goal is to bilk old ladies out of their money, you need to base your religion on fear. Of course, there are plenty of religions that do this already, and their followers will beat or kill you for competing with them. So if you want to compete with them, you're going to need goons. Lots of goons.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:13:17 AM EDT
We should start a gun "religion" and use our tax exempt status to buy more guns. :)
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:15:33 AM EDT
Well, I feel left out again.

I don't actively believe and I don't actively disbelieve; I just sort of don’t care. So I guess I belong to the church of WHATEVER.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:16:31 AM EDT


IMO, it is a religion. I have always considered it a "denomination" of humanism. And they have used to courts as their version of the Spanish Inquisition to silence critics and promote their own.

Gonna be interesting to see if this goes anywhere. All the separation of church/state garbage that has been pushed in the last 30 years.....now that those pushing it may have to abide by it? LOL.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:33:50 AM EDT
I have always considered it a religion to a degree. Now that SCOTUS has ruled it so atheists are fair game for aclu-style lawsuits.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:40:59 AM EDT


This just means that we can't NOT say a prayer in school.

We can't have the .gov establishing an athiest religion


It's amazing the mess we get ourselves into when we start sueing on flimsy ground


Seperation of Church and State
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:34:21 PM EDT
A lot of people have faith in atheism. Now they get lumped in with the rest.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:36:45 PM EDT
When you choose not to decide you still have made a choice......
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:37:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:40:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
I have always considered it a religion to a degree. Now that SCOTUS has ruled it so atheists are fair game for aclu-style lawsuits.


The ACLU doesn't hate religion, they hate Christianity.

When they removed the nativity scene from public places, they left other religions' displays up.

The Supreme Court is trying to "expand" the "rights" of atheists and that's the point behind this "judicial legislation".
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:40:54 PM EDT


Great news, now the atheists can be descriminated against too.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:41:42 PM EDT
If you consider religion to be a form of belief, and athiests do not believe that God exists, then athiesm is a religion (according to logic, anyways).
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:45:14 PM EDT
If atheism is a religion, then can an associate's stupidity just be ruled a handicap to be overlooked by management?

I hate the ACLU with a passion.

They want to outlaw God being mentioned in any fashion while everyone else's rights are protected.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:48:05 PM EDT
My imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:48:52 PM EDT
Of course the court rules atheism as a religion.

They want to assert themselves as the final arbiter of right & wrong, good & bad, lawful & unlawful.

The very idea that a member of the judiciary would subordinate themselves to a higher authority goes against every fiber of their lust for power, thus, legally recognizing an "absence of God" (atheism) paves the way for them to declare themselves gods.

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:49:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 2:50:17 PM EDT by 1Andy2]
Uh, atheism isn't a religion. It's just the principal doctrine of the religion of Materialism.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 2:55:05 PM EDT
there's a difference between a religion and a belief.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:10:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 3:11:10 PM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By MachinegunManiac:

Originally Posted By PBIR:
I have always considered it a religion to a degree. Now that SCOTUS has ruled it so atheists are fair game for aclu-style lawsuits.


The ACLU doesn't hate religion, they hate Christianity.

When they removed the nativity scene from public places, they left other religions' displays up.

The Supreme Court is trying to "expand" the "rights" of atheists and that's the point behind this "judicial legislation".



Can I get a big, "Duh"

I didn't say the ACLU would target them, I said (in joking) that they are now fair game for aclu-style lawsuits. It doesn't matter what SCOTUS's reason for the ruling is, what matters is that they are now considered a religion in the eyes of the federal government.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:19:47 PM EDT
the unsupported belief in that "there is a god" sounds just as arrogant and ultimately self serving as the unsupported belief that "there is no god"

atleast to an agnostic like me
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:21:18 PM EDT
Does that mean that the public schools will stop teaching secular humanism under the "separation od church and state?"
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:22:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:
Does that mean that the public schools will stop teaching secular humanism under the "separation od church and state?"



Looks like grounds for the first lawsuit under the new ruling.
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