Court lifts fee ban on police cars - PD charges officers a fee for take home cars

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Court lifts fee ban on police cars - PD charges officers a fee for take home cars

Posted: 1/21/2009 4:48:11 AM EDT

Court lifts fee ban on police cars
Monthly hike not irreparable
By Dan Klepal • [email protected] • January 21, 2009

The Kentucky Court of Appeals has lifted a temporary injunction that prevented Louisville Metro Government from charging police officers more to take their patrol cars home.

Louisville Metro Police Chief Robert White said he will talk with Mayor Jerry Abramson before deciding whether to immediately institute the higher fees or wait until the issue plays out in front of the Kentucky Labor Cabinet, which has a hearing scheduled Feb. 10-11.

"It was always our position that the injunction wasn't warranted," White said.

White and Abramson announced the fee increase in December as part of Abramson's plan to offset a projected $20 million budget shortfall for the current fiscal year.

Officers currently pay $30 a month for take-home cars and $60 if they use them on a second job. The administration wants to raise those fees to $100 and $160 a month, respectively –– a move that would increase revenue to the city by about $110,000 per month.

But Jefferson Circuit Judge Mitch Perry issued the temporary injunction Dec. 24, saying the officers would be "irreparably harmed" if the city raised the fees before state labor officials decide the issue.

Yesterday, a three-judge panel of the appellate court said officers would not be irreparably harmed by the higher fees because:

The city can refund the money through back pay if the fees are found to be an unfair labor practice.

The injunction isn't necessary to preserve officers' collective-bargaining rights because the Fraternal Order of Police didn't challenge the lower fees when Abramson and White instituted them last year as part of a plan to offset a $13 million shortfall in the 2007-08 budget.

The take-home car program is a privilege, not a right, because it is not mentioned in the FOP contract.

"Given all these factors … we find no basis for a finding of irreparable injury," the ruling says. "It is clear to us … that the real issue is money: whether the officers in the program should be required to pay the increase while the collective bargaining complaint is pending."

The court rulings to date looked narrowly at the issue of whether an injunction was warranted based on irreparable harm.

The Labor Cabinet will determine if the city is entitled to raise the fees without first negotiating with the union.

FOP President John McGuire said he will meet with attorneys for a decision on how to proceed. The union hopes the city will wait for a Labor Cabinet ruling before instituting the fees, he said.

The complaint filed with the state labor officials "will address the true issue, which is: Can the city arbitrarily and unilaterally make a change to the employees' wages, hours and working conditions without bargaining," McGuire said. "According to Louisville ordinances, Kentucky state law and our contract, they cannot."

Assistant Jefferson County Attorney Bill O'Brien said it will likely take labor officials 30 to 60 days after the hearing to issue a ruling, which can be appealed to circuit court and higher courts.

O'Brien said the ruling is important so the city can start collecting the extra fees; and for the precedent it will set.

"This ruling addresses what you need to get an injunction," he said.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090121/NEWS01/901210447

Posted: 1/21/2009 9:49:05 AM EDT

[#1]

After our "budget crunch" in October our PD had to start paying a mileage rate for take home cars based on how far you live outside the city.

Except for K9 which was exempt

Posted: 1/21/2009 9:56:06 AM EDT

[#2]

in my opinion if you have a take home, you should be charged monthly.

I get charged 120/mo for my company vehicle. The money is then claimed as PUTB (personal use taxable benefit).

The IRS claims that using a company vehicle to commute to your job is personal use and therefore taxable. The use of the vehicle after you reach your job is on the company and not taxable.

If you drive to the police station for roll call, this would be personal use.

But again, I'm not a LEO and my friends that are LEO's do not have take homes. So the IRS may affect you guys differently.

Posted: 1/21/2009 10:14:31 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
in my opinion if you have a take home, you should be charged monthly.

I get charged 120/mo for my company vehicle. The money is then claimed as PUTB (personal use taxable benefit).

The IRS claims that using a company vehicle to commute to your job is personal use and therefore taxable. The use of the vehicle after you reach your job is on the company and not taxable.

If you drive to the police station for roll call, this would be personal use.

But again, I'm not a LEO and my friends that are LEO's do not have take homes. So the IRS may affect you guys differently.

Yeah, but the whole seeing a felony in progress on your way home in your city car kinda changes things a little.

Not to mention the 24 hour call out availability for certain units.

We are never "off duty" especially when rolling in the squad.

Posted: 1/21/2009 10:36:21 AM EDT

[#4]

Never heard of this in Missouri..Everybody outside detention has a take home vehicle. For 160.00 a month I would drive my own vehicle to work, don't think this will ever happen here.

Posted: 1/21/2009 10:47:45 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
in my opinion if you have a take home, you should be charged monthly.

I get charged 120/mo for my company vehicle. The money is then claimed as PUTB (personal use taxable benefit).

The IRS claims that using a company vehicle to commute to your job is personal use and therefore taxable. The use of the vehicle after you reach your job is on the company and not taxable.

If you drive to the police station for roll call, this would be personal use.

But again, I'm not a LEO and my friends that are LEO's do not have take homes. So the IRS may affect you guys differently.

Yeah, but the whole seeing a felony in progress on your way home in your city car kinda changes things a little.

Not to mention the 24 hour call out availability for certain units.

We are never "off duty" especially when rolling in the squad.

I am on call 24/7 for my job also, and I could be called out to any site in the northeast. However, I dont have to work with felons.

Basically for me, I have to keep track of every personal mile and company mile. THen at the end of 6months, I call in to log it. At the end of the year if your personal miles are greater then the computed mileage, then that mileage is added to your salary after being calculated out using the rate (0.05cents per mile or whatever it is)

Posted: 1/21/2009 10:50:13 AM EDT

[#6]

the other thing to think about is where can you get a vehicle for 120 or even 180 a month.

for 120, I get a new car, gas, maintenance, insurance, rental car paid if needed.

Posted: 1/21/2009 1:57:11 PM EDT

[#7]

Honolulu PD used to have a system where the officer purchased his patrol car and brought it home, etc... They were of course paid a stipend for the vehicle. It saved the PD from having a motor pool for storage.

Posted: 1/21/2009 2:09:01 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
in my opinion if you have a take home, you should be charged monthly.

If you are required to take your marked cruiser home by Dept policy, then hell no you shouldn't have to pay anything for it.

f its voluntary, then I see no problem with getting charged for it as you can chose not to take it home....

Posted: 1/21/2009 4:08:04 PM EDT

[#9]

I would tell them to stick their car where the sun does not shine.

Posted: 1/21/2009 4:19:55 PM EDT

[#10]

I'd assume that guys got the cars in the first place as a perk, on a contract where they couldn't get money. If that's the case, I'd be pissed at the FOP for not getting it put into the contract. Then they failed to fight the fees originally, or have them put into the contract, creating a situation where dudes are just basically renting cars from the city at a cheap price. Now the city wants to raise the price and there's nothing to stop it - and the FOP has to argue based on "standing practice," which will not be easy in this ecomomy. The FOP gets the huck-a-buck again

, big surprise.
Perks are bad business anyway IMO - it's always easier to lose a perk on a cut-back cycle than it is to lose a pay increase. Employers are all poor-mouthing like crazy this year as it is, contract negotiations are gonna be a bloodbath everywhere.

Posted: 1/23/2009 6:57:52 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I would tell them to stick their car where the sun does not shine.

Yeah, and see how that affects the city's budget planning when everyone does that.

Posted: 1/23/2009 9:39:40 AM EDT

[#12]

If it's just a take home car, then you shouldn't be charged, especially if you can be called out when off shift. But if it's used on a second job, then I have no problem with officers being charged for it.

Posted: 1/23/2009 11:18:50 AM EDT

[#13]

The three year, three ring circus that the purchase of our 10 new vehicles has become almost makes me want to give them all back to the city.
A car is a tool, much like the gun, the boots, the uniform, it is an unfortunante necessity of the job theses days. I look back very fondly at my rookie year of walking a footbeat, but those days are pretty much over (unless you're NYPD).
A take-home car is not a "right", I agree but it is a small way to supplement the shitty pay, get everyone to work with minimal wear and tear on the POV, raise morale, and makes callouts/callbacks possible if there is an emergency.

Funny how the coppers are always shit on by the politicians. That is until the bodies start dropping. Then they can't give us unlimitted overtime and take-home vehicles fast enough!

Posted: 1/23/2009 11:53:53 AM EDT

[#14]

What are these "take home cars" you speak of?

When I lived in town the on duty guys would pick me up as long as I was willing to ride in the back.

Bucky145

Posted: 1/23/2009 11:58:01 AM EDT

[#15]

They were paying $60.00 a month already.

Posted: 1/23/2009 12:09:13 PM EDT

[#16]

Im not a Leo so I guess I dont understand why you have to pay for a take home car. Its not like your using it for grocery shopping you use it for work and the drive home. I work in field sevice I have my own car and I'm paid mileage for the use of my own car. Id take mileage over having to pay on a company car any day.

Posted: 1/23/2009 6:25:07 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I'm not a Leo so I guess I don't understand why you have to pay for a take home car. Its not like your using it for grocery shopping you use it for work and the drive home. I work in field service I have my own car and I'm paid mileage for the use of my own car. Id take mileage over having to pay on a company car any day.

Actually, it is just like that. They were allowed to use them as personal vehicles without paying for gas, insurance, or maintenance.

Posted: 1/23/2009 7:12:10 PM EDT

[#18]

look these guys are making 35 to 50 bucks an hour working off duty

using the car gas and insurance i pay for, i have nothing against lmpd

but hell i am not given the option to drive my ambulance around all day

on my off days on the tax payers dime. come on do you think the boss would

let me take the med unit to do an off duty stand by for some event so i can bring

home extra jack. i would love to drop my kids off at day care or go to the mall in

my med unit hell some of the officers don't even own pov's cause they get to drive

the police car everwhere. i promise even if they had to pay 200 bucks a month thats

still much cheaper then gas insurance car payment and oil changes would cost them

out of pocket.

Posted: 1/24/2009 4:45:10 AM EDT

[#19]

The feds have also held that when in a LE vehicle in uniform you are WORKING as you must respond to any situation which occurs in your presence. This was part of our decision for the K-9's to be paid portal to portal. I am now in an investigative unit and am expected to respond from my residence at any time, they want to make me pay I will leave my car at the nearest station and use my own truck to get it and they can kiss my ass on recall.

Posted: 1/24/2009 5:17:43 AM EDT

[#21]

My viewpoint here is as a taxpayer.
The cop useing a work car to work a second job should be paying a pretty good chunk.
A city cop who lives outside the city should be paying something.

A cop in uniform,within the area he works, should not have to be paying.

I live in a state where all the state cops are issued a car . About a year or so ago the gov tried to set a policy where they could only come into the barracks and fill up with gass on the days they were working. It seems that many of the guys were filling up 2 or 3 times when they had 3 or 4 days off . There was a near muinty and I believe the gov ended up backing down.
Haveing the cop always close to his eguipment and on call at all times is money well spent but there are some that twist that around and take advantage of it . Hard thing to decide where to draw that line.

Posted: 1/24/2009 5:23:01 AM EDT

[#22]

The second these take home cars are used for personal business outside work hours is when fees should have been increased or take home cars are used for outside work that is not paid for by the city or county. There should be no expectation that taxpayers should finance travel or usage of patrol cars for personal gain, that is totally inappropriate.

No difference then if I started doing side jobs using my company vehicle, if I did that I would be terminated immediately for theft of goods and services.

Don't have a problem with officers taking cars home, I do when the taxpayer is paying even one dime for outside secondary income from another job.

Standby or on call work is different if one is required to have the vehicle at all times to respond immediately even if "off duty", then any incidental travels should be paid for by the city or county. [IE dog handler, SWAT, etc.]

Posted: 1/24/2009 5:34:53 AM EDT

[#23]

IIRC, part of the "take home car" philosophy is so that there's a more visible police presence in the community (people see a cruiser parked nearby, they may think twice about what they were planning). Deterrence is nice, but having a cruiser parked in front of your house immediately ID's you as an LEO, and opens up another can of worms with your neighbors, and neighborhood. I'm sure you could also be expected to respond if you're out in your marked unit, running errands or some such.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but I'd consider a take-home car an overall benefit. As long as the fee isn't onerous, I can see charging something nominal.

Posted: 1/24/2009 5:44:40 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm not a Leo so I guess I don't understand why you have to pay for a take home car. Its not like your using it for grocery shopping you use it for work and the drive home. I work in field service I have my own car and I'm paid mileage for the use of my own car. Id take mileage over having to pay on a company car any day.

Actually, it is just like that. They were allowed to use them as personal vehicles without paying for gas, insurance, or maintenance.

Hu? Then heck yeah they should have to pay. Or have a policy that you have to be in uniform when driving your police vehicle.

Most agencies that have take home vehicles that I know of allow you to take the vehicle to/from work, training, call-outs, etc. Not to the store.

Of course, where I'm at, these strange things called "second jobs" would probably get you fired.

And there is no way I'd park a take home car in my driveway. I'd put an addition on my garage if I had to. No fucking way I'm mediating neighborhood disputes or any of that crap and I sure don't want the savages knowing where I hang my hat and when I'm at work (and thus not home).

Posted: 1/24/2009 7:52:26 AM EDT

[#25]

I have had a take home vehicle for over the last 6 years and I think its a great benefit to supplement a poor benefits package and lower than average pay. As for using the vehicle during part time/extra jobs, I do every week for about 6-8 hours at a time, but its not actively running during that period its sitting in front of a business while I am inside working.

Now here's something to chew on....I have on numerous occasions left a part time job to assist other units in a high risk call, so if its voluntary for me to have to pay to take my car home and I don't pay it, then do I respond to calls in my POV, probably not.

I understand that as a tax payer (Yes I pay part of my own salary, I live where I police) this is very concerning. There is a common train of thought also that an officer will take better care of a take home car, than that of a motor pool vehicle. Also on a motor pool vehicle that is "hot seated" a vehicle will mechanically break down faster because there is no rest period for the vehicle. So when you take into account the cost vs. usefulness I personally think the cost is well spent on the public and the officer.

Posted: 1/24/2009 9:57:48 PM EDT

[#26]

Guys in my area don't get to do personal stuff in the G-ride. That's bad juju and can get you a chair pushing buttons at the jail for a long time.

With that said, most agencies around here also charge for use of the vehicle during off duty (uniformed) details. Usually, a certain amount per hour the vehicle is used. I think it works out well that way. If they decided to charge me just to take my vehicle home, I'd leave it parked at the station.

Posted: 1/25/2009 5:00:33 AM EDT

[#27]

The one thing the Louisville media has yet to report on is just how Louisville got 20 million in debt? The FOP and Firefighters union couldn't get him to open the books and then try to work together for a solution.

Second, if Abramson is serious about saving money CANCEL the annual Thunder Over Louisville crap and leave the emergency services alone.

Sincerly,
A brother FOP member across the river.

Posted: 1/26/2009 8:17:18 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
in my opinion if you have a take home, you should be charged monthly.

If you are required to take your marked cruiser home by Dept policy, then hell no you shouldn't have to pay anything for it.

f its voluntary, then I see no problem with getting charged for it as you can chose not to take it home....

I agree.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Court lifts fee ban on police cars - PD charges officers a fee for take home cars

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