User Panel
Posted: 11/20/2008 11:15:14 AM EDT
Court Rules Cops Can Carry Guns ... Nationwide!
Last update: 3:11 p.m. EST Nov. 18, 2008 SPRINGFIELD, Va., Nov 18, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ –– Good Guys Can Fight Back - Criminals Beware! A ruling on a case from South Dakota –– where off-duty law enforcement officers were criminally charged for carrying guns despite the authority to do so under the federal 'Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act of 2004' (LEOSA) –– has confirmed that all qualified off-duty and retired law enforcement are allowed, by federal law, to carry a concealed gun for personal self-defense irrespective of state law. The federal law supersedes the crazy, confusing and often conflicted state and local laws that limit legitimate self-defense. LEAA's Executive Director, Jim Fotis said, "When LEAA co-authored the original draft of what became affectionately known as 'National Cop Carry' back in the early 1990's, I knew it would save cops' lives and give those who choose to resist violent criminals a fighting chance. In 2004 I shook President Bush's hand after he signed our bill into law and rejoiced that our fight –– for more than a decade –– was finally over!" The local prosecutor's apparent effort to challenge the federal law, and send a message to all in law enforcement not to carry a gun for self-defense in South Dakota, was soundly rejected! Thankfully, after careful review, the gun charges against the officers were dismissed. "The Judge's crystal clear and unambiguous legal opinion should be required reading for every prosecutor in the nation so that no other law enforcement professionals, active or retired, have to endure what those officers and agents have endured in South Dakota," declared Carl Rowan, LEAA's Vice President. Robert Van Norman and Kenneth Orrock, Attorneys for the officers, said "We are pleased with the court's decision, as it reaffirms the intent of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act and in effect will protect law enforcement officers and our communities. The law enforcement community should find comfort that LEOSA has been properly applied in this case." A copy of the Judge's memorandum decision –– and extensive background information on LEOSA –– is available at the LEAA website: www.leaa.org The Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Inc., (LEAA) is the nation's largest not for profit, non-partisan coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens dedicated to making America safer. SOURCE Law Enforcement Alliance of America http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Court-Rules-Cops-Can-Carry/story.aspx?guid=%7BB6B643BC-4415-4BEC-9B94-354528F44289%7D |
|
Misdemeanor weapons charges against Seattle police officers dismissed
Criminal charges have been dropped against two Seattle police officers who were each cited with a misdemeanor for carrying firearms into a bar during a motorcycle rally in South Dakota earlier this year. By Jennifer Sullivan Seattle Times staff reporter Related Archive | Seattle officer held in Sturgis Motorcycle Rally shooting Archive | Seattle police officer in shooting has clashed with Hells Angels before Archive | Cop says he feared for his life in biker-bar attack Criminal charges have been dropped against two Seattle police officers who were each cited with a misdemeanor for carrying firearms into a bar during a motorcycle rally in South Dakota earlier this year. Seattle police Detective Ron Smith and Sgt. Dennis McCoy have been on administrative leave from the department since Smith shot a member of the Hells Angels during a brawl at the Loud American Roadhouse in Sturgis on Aug. 9. The charges them were dropped on Friday, said their attorney Robert Van Norman. Joseph McGuire, a Hells Angels from Imperial Beach, Calif., was shot during the bar fight. He was charged with aggravated assault, which can result in a 15-year prison term if he's convicted. Smith had originally been charged with aggravated assault and perjury, but those charges as well as a misdemeanor count of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit had been previously dismissed, said Van Norman. McCoy was only charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. Smith told The Seattle Times that he shot McGuire after McGuire and other members of the Hells Angels jumped him inside the Loud American Roadhouse during the annual Sturgis, S.D., Motorcycle Rally. Smith attended the rally as a member of the Iron Pigs, a motorcycle club made up of law-enforcement officers and firefighters. Smith said that he may have been targeted by the Hells Angels because he testified in a high-profile federal racketeering and murder trial in Seattle last year that sent several former and current members of the gang to prison. Charges against two other members of the Iron Pigs who were in the bar during the fight also were dropped. U.S. Customs and Border Inspection officers Scott Lazalde, 38, of Bellingham and James Rector, 44, of Ferndale, Whatcom County, had been charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, Van Norman said. Van Norman said that a judge in Meade County, S.D., agreed with his argument that the four officers are protected under a federal law that allows off-duty law-enforcement officers to carry weapons anywhere they choose, including a bar. The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Regardless of the federal law, Meade County State Attorney Jesse Sondreal still pursued charges against the law enforcement officers. "The Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2004 pre-empted any application of the state law to prohibit these officers from carrying concealed weapons in these circumstances," Van Norman said this morning. "This reinforces what everyone in law enforcement assumed was the law. The charges in this case were really a jolt to a lot of law enforcement officers." Erik Pingel, 35, a firefighter from Aurora, Colo., a fellow Iron Pig who was carrying a gun that night, still faces the misdemeanor weapons charge because federal statute does not allow firefighters to carry a weapon inside a bar. Van Norman said Pingel's case is pending. Smith and McCoy had been placed on administrative leave following the incident. Seattle police said this morning they were unsure when they would return to work. Smith couldn't be reached for comment this morning, but Rich O'Neill, president of the Seattle Police Officer's Guild (SPOG), said "this is a day of vindication for Detective Smith and Sergeant McCoy." "As SPOG stated when this incident first happened, we knew that once all the facts were known, the officers involved would be vindicated and absolved of any wrongdoing," O'Neill said in a news release. Jennifer Sullivan: 206-464-8294 or [email protected] http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008401518_websturgis17m.html |
|
I'm kinda shocked this case came out of SD. You'd expect NJ or DC.
|
|
What about us lowly peasants?
<––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... |
|
If one were interested how could a private citizen benefit from this? Are there reserve cops or something you could become to be able to take advantage if this? Sorry not a cop and don't know the jargon.
|
|
Quoted:
I'll try to restrain my enthusiasm. I don't know if I can. |
|
Quoted:
If one were interested how could a private citizen benefit from this? Are there reserve cops or something you could become to be able to take advantage if this? Sorry not a cop and don't know the jargon. We don't directly but I suppose the more responsible citizens that can conceal and carry around us the better. It's a step in the right direction. |
|
Now... if we could just get rid of the "some of us are more equal than others" attitude.
|
|
It seems to me that any power not expressly given to the federal government is reserved for the states. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised for this to be overturned by the SCOTUS.
|
|
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? <––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... Same here. |
|
great
that will help me protect me and my family who often travel late at night, through rural as shit Pennsylvania and upstate NY to visit my elderly parents who live in a depressed rural part of NY. If I'm broken down and defenseless I'm glad to know an off duty cop from Michigan will be along any minute to cover me. big fucking deal |
|
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?
|
|
I thought they were going to keep it a states rights issue, and I've completely lost track of this topic.
Kinda nifty! |
|
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? <––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts... Oh, Obama has plans for us. National ban on civilian CCW. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll try to restrain my enthusiasm. I don't know if I can. Woo. Hoo. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? http://www.nyworms.com/images/groupcrickets.jpg We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. I'm all for nationwide CCW. Actually I think it's against the Constituion to require CHL's. |
|
Some of you guys would be shocked at the support for concealed carry in the LE community. The local police association here is St. Louis supported the concealed carry laws here in Missouri from the beginning. Most cops are realistic enough to know they can't be everywhere and would rather scrape the shitbag off the sidewalk than some poor average joe that is a victim.
Hopefully national reciprocity will happen, but I am not holding my breath under Obama. I really don't know what it would take for it to happen but I can keep hoping. |
|
Ahhhhh, good to see the usual hate and discontent is alive and kicking around this forum.
|
|
Quoted:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse. The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? [ We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. A Lot of us Are, and Have been even Before they finally Passed 218..but im sure you knew THAT Right?? Right??? |
|
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with.
What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you? |
|
Quoted:
Some of you guys would be shocked at the support for concealed carry in the LE community. The local police association here is St. Louis supported the concealed carry laws here in Missouri from the beginning. I don't disbelieve that this is the case, but it'd be nice for the support to be more vocal. Of course, the media picks what they feel like presenting, so that could be a large part of the problem. |
|
Quoted:
It seems to me that any power not expressly given to the federal government is reserved for the states. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised for this to be overturned by the SCOTUS. Good point. But of course the feds are well within their jurisdiction to ban conceal and carry on a national level and pass a new AWB.... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse. The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So the cops in the bar fight/shooting were not drinking? |
|
I do believe I had a drink and a cigar with Mr. Jim Fotis at the Club Macanudo in NYC (ca 2003). He said he was a lobbiest of some sort. He bought me a drink because he admired my interest and knowledge in scotch. Cool guy. We talked about the new (back then farely new) MN CCW law that Jesse Ventura helped push.
In my three years in the city, I think Club Macanudo was the friendliest place I ever went to. Always stuck up a conversation with the person next to you about what you got lit. Can't recall what he was doing in NYC but I'm sure he didn't accomplish it. |
|
Don't you guys see where this leads? If traveling LEOs can carry across state lines, it's not too much of a logical stretch for a national CHL with a training requirement to be brought up as well. One could argue that if a civilian received the same level of training as a police officer, why couldn't they also be allowed to carry, and we all know that level of training wouldn't be hard to get and you should be getting it anyways if you plan on carrying. This is the first phase of a multi-phase move.
|
|
Quoted:
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse. The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So the cops in the bar fight/shooting were not drinking? According the ruling I would say they were not. As to fighting it sounds like only one person was fighting and it was self-defense. Smith told The Seattle Times that he shot McGuire after McGuire and other members of the Hells Angels jumped him inside the Loud American Roadhouse during the annual Sturgis, S.D., Motorcycle Rally. Smith attended the rally as a member of the Iron Pigs, a motorcycle club made up of law-enforcement officers and firefighters. Smith said that he may have been targeted by the Hells Angels because he testified in a high-profile federal racketeering and murder trial in Seattle last year that sent several former and current members of the gang to prison. |
|
Quoted:
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? I was wondering this myself.. CXS |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? [ We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. A Lot of us Are, and Have been even Before they finally Passed 218..but im sure you knew THAT Right?? Right??? I know an awful lot of cops rallied pretty hard for HR 218. And once it passed... we never heard another peep from them on the subject. I'm not bashing all cops, but stating a simple, plain fact... they (collectively) have their "rights" secured, and they're done. They're happy. Sure, lots of individuals support shall-issue, and they might even write a letter or send a few bucks to some organization. But that's it. |
|
Quoted:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with. What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you? How is this a pro gun victory when the group in question (cops) have only had their rights expanded in recent decades? I'll celebrate when us lowly peasants are allowed to do the same thing. |
|
Quoted:
Don't you guys see where this leads? If traveling LEOs can carry across state lines, it's not too much of a logical stretch for a national CHL with a training requirement to be brought up as well. One could argue that if a civilian received the same level of training as a police officer, why couldn't they also be allowed to carry, and we all know that level of training wouldn't be hard to get and you should be getting it anyways if you plan on carrying. This is the first phase of a multi-phase move. So where's all of the police energy and enthusiasm for "the next step"? It's been four years. What, are the police organizations just gathering money and strength for one massive push? yeah, that must be it. That must be why there hasn't been a peep from any police organization on the issue since HR 218 passed. Just keep waiting! They haven't forgotten about all of the support civilian pro-2A groups put behind 218! They got theirs, and now they're just itching to help us get ours! I can hardly wait! |
|
Quoted: I'm kinda shocked this case came out of SD. You'd expect NJ or DC. Much like Daytona, the people (and elected officials) of Sturgis seem to want the bikers' money, but without the bikers. This was an excellent attempt to show that. |
|
Quoted:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with. What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you? Explain how this is a victory for gun owners.. ...in detail. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about us lowly peasants? National carry for cops was an important first step for us! Now, all we have to do is wait! And wait, and wait, and wait... I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right? Right? [ We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down. A Lot of us Are, and Have been even Before they finally Passed 218..but im sure you knew THAT Right?? Right??? I know an awful lot of cops rallied pretty hard for HR 218. And once it passed... we never heard another peep from them on the subject. I'm not bashing all cops, but stating a simple, plain fact... they (collectively) have their "rights" secured, and they're done. They're happy. Sure, lots of individuals support shall-issue, and they might even write a letter or send a few bucks to some organization. But that's it. There are more gun owners than cops. Sounds like gun owners need to get off their butts and fight for their cause. |
|
Quoted: So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? |
|
Quoted:
Now... if we could just get rid of the "some of us are more equal than others" attitude. No doubt. Guess us second-class citizens aren't as equal under the eyes of the law. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? Both. |
|
Quoted:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with. What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you? Pro gun victories are such because they benefit the people This ruling excludes "the people" and benefits an organization This is just my opinion on the definition of a "pro-gun" victory. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse. The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Can they be in a bar? or did they just decide to "let those guys off the hook"? |
|
Laws like this, as well as the one that Tim Kaine passed for Virginia Commonwealth's Attorneys show that it's not about the merits of who is carrying, but rather the social class from which that person hails...
I suspect that I am better trained in firearms use then AT LEAST one active or retired police officer who is currently allowed to carry anywhere they like under "HR218", yet I am not in the correct class to be afforded this priviledge. I know I have more training then most of the CA's that were recently afforded concealed carry rights in places that serve alcohol in Virginia. It's apparent that my well-being, or that of my family, is not effected as much by the oddball carry laws, and non-permissive environments as these classes who are allowed to carry. |
|
Double standard.
Police = better than you. A police officer's life is worth more than your life. I'll be happy when the same courtesy is extended to all law abiding citizens. |
|
Quoted:There are more gun owners than cops. Sounds like gun owners need to get off their butts and fight for their cause.
Regular gun owners are not on the "same team" as the government. It's nice, in theory, but in reality there will be no traction. Ironically, it will come down to how the states issue permits, criteria, etc that will sink a universal carry law for all citizens. Despite the fact that HR218 merely identifies the beneficiary as being a current or retired police officer –– irrespective of individual department training in firearms, self-defense and tactics. A "Barney Fife" would be covered, but a "Larry Vickers" isn't.... Hmm... |
|
Quoted: the NYPD has zero experience in encountering legally armed people on the street. there have been instances where undercover/off-duty NYPD officers have intervened in a crime only to be shot by responding uniformed officers. the automatic response here is that if they have a gun they are a bad guy...Quoted: Quoted: So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right? how about NYC? Both. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.