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Posted: 11/20/2008 11:15:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:16:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:17:01 AM EDT
I'm kinda shocked this case came out of SD. You'd expect NJ or DC.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:17:27 AM EDT
Good.

Now it's my turn.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:17:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 11:17:52 AM EDT by Towely]
What about us lowly peasants?



<––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts...
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:18:55 AM EDT
I'll try to restrain my enthusiasm.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:19:05 AM EDT
If one were interested how could a private citizen benefit from this? Are there reserve cops or something you could become to be able to take advantage if this? Sorry not a cop and don't know the jargon.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:20:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I'll try to restrain my enthusiasm.


I don't know if I can.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:20:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 11:20:43 AM EDT by Towely]
Originally Posted By dread-pirate:
If one were interested how could a private citizen benefit from this? Are there reserve cops or something you could become to be able to take advantage if this? Sorry not a cop and don't know the jargon.


We don't directly but I suppose the more responsible citizens that can conceal and carry around us the better.  It's a step in the right direction.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:21:32 AM EDT
Now... if we could just get rid of the "some of us are more equal than others" attitude.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:22:02 AM EDT
It seems to me that any power not expressly given to the federal government is reserved for the states.  Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised for this to be overturned by the SCOTUS.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:22:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Towely:
What about us lowly peasants?



<––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts...


Same here.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:24:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Towely:
What about us lowly peasants?


National carry for cops was an important first step for us!  Now, all we have to do is wait!

And wait, and wait, and wait...

I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right?

Right?



We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:26:15 AM EDT
great

that will help me protect me and my family who often travel late at night, through rural as shit Pennsylvania and upstate NY to visit my elderly parents who live in a depressed rural part of NY.

If I'm broken down and defenseless I'm glad to know an off duty cop from Michigan will be along any minute to cover me.

big fucking deal
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:26:23 AM EDT
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:27:37 AM EDT
I thought they were going to keep it a states rights issue, and I've completely lost track of this topic.

Kinda nifty!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:27:52 AM EDT
What's this "personal protection" they speak of?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:30:52 AM EDT
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:31:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Towely:
What about us lowly peasants?



<––- yep, no conceal and carry round these parts...


Oh, Obama has plans for us.

National ban on civilian CCW.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:31:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I'll try to restrain my enthusiasm.


I don't know if I can.


Woo. Hoo.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:31:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:32:36 AM EDT
Some of you guys would be shocked at the support for concealed carry in the LE community.  The local police association here is St. Louis supported the concealed carry laws here in Missouri from the beginning.  Most cops are realistic enough to know they can't be everywhere and would rather scrape the shitbag off the sidewalk than some poor average joe that is a victim.

Hopefully national reciprocity will happen, but I am not holding my breath under Obama.  I really don't know what it would take for it to happen but I can keep hoping.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:32:40 AM EDT
Ahhhhh, good to see the usual hate and discontent is alive and kicking around this forum.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:33:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:33:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jnojr:
Originally Posted By Towely:
What about us lowly peasants?


National carry for cops was an important first step for us!  Now, all we have to do is wait!

And wait, and wait, and wait...

I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right?

Right?

[
We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down.


A Lot of us Are, and Have been even Before they finally Passed 218..but im sure you knew THAT  Right??   Right???

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:35:19 AM EDT
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with.

What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:36:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Some of you guys would be shocked at the support for concealed carry in the LE community.  The local police association here is St. Louis supported the concealed carry laws here in Missouri from the beginning.


I don't disbelieve that this is the case, but it'd be nice for the support to be more vocal.

Of course, the media picks what they feel like presenting, so that could be a large part of the problem.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:36:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-180:
It seems to me that any power not expressly given to the federal government is reserved for the states.  Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised for this to be overturned by the SCOTUS.


Good point.  But of course the feds are well within their jurisdiction to ban conceal and carry on a national level and pass a new AWB....
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:38:33 AM EDT
ost
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:38:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse.



The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol.




So the cops in the bar fight/shooting were not drinking?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:40:19 AM EDT
I do believe I had a drink and a cigar with Mr. Jim Fotis at the Club Macanudo in NYC (ca 2003).  He said he was a lobbiest of some sort.  He bought me a drink because he admired my interest and knowledge in scotch.  Cool guy.  We talked about the new (back then farely new) MN CCW law that Jesse Ventura helped push.  

In my three years in the city, I think Club Macanudo was the friendliest place I ever went to.  Always stuck up a conversation with the person next to you about what you got lit.

Can't recall what he was doing in NYC but I'm sure he didn't accomplish it.  

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:42:23 AM EDT
Don't you guys see where this leads?  If traveling LEOs can carry across state lines, it's not too much of a logical stretch for a national CHL with a training requirement to be brought up as well.  One could argue that if a civilian received the same level of training as a police officer, why couldn't they also be allowed to carry, and we all know that level of training wouldn't be hard to get and you should be getting it anyways if you plan on carrying.  This is the first phase of a multi-phase move.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:42:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anr6t:
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?


Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:43:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:45:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anr6t:
So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?


I was wondering this myself..

CXS
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:47:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By jnojr:
Originally Posted By Towely:
What about us lowly peasants?


National carry for cops was an important first step for us!  Now, all we have to do is wait!

And wait, and wait, and wait...

I'm certain that police will be clamoring for our rights now that theirs are secure, right?

Right?

[
We'd have been better off to see HR 218 struck down.


A Lot of us Are, and Have been even Before they finally Passed 218..but im sure you knew THAT  Right??   Right???



I know an awful lot of cops rallied pretty hard for HR 218.  And once it passed... we never heard another peep from them on the subject.

I'm not bashing all cops, but stating a simple, plain fact... they (collectively) have their "rights" secured, and they're done.  They're happy.  Sure, lots of individuals support shall-issue, and they might even write a letter or send a few bucks to some organization.  But that's it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:50:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with.

What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you?


How is this a pro gun victory when the group in question (cops) have only had their rights expanded in recent decades?  I'll celebrate when us lowly peasants are allowed to do the same thing.  

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:51:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
Don't you guys see where this leads?  If traveling LEOs can carry across state lines, it's not too much of a logical stretch for a national CHL with a training requirement to be brought up as well.  One could argue that if a civilian received the same level of training as a police officer, why couldn't they also be allowed to carry, and we all know that level of training wouldn't be hard to get and you should be getting it anyways if you plan on carrying.  This is the first phase of a multi-phase move.


So where's all of the police energy and enthusiasm for "the next step"?  It's been four years.  What, are the police organizations just gathering money and strength for one massive push?  yeah, that must be it.  That must be why there hasn't been a peep from any police organization on the issue since HR 218 passed.

Just keep waiting!  They haven't forgotten about all of the support civilian pro-2A groups put behind 218!  They got theirs, and now they're just itching to help us get ours!  I can hardly wait!
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:52:06 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Spade:

I'm kinda shocked this case came out of SD. You'd expect NJ or DC.




Much like Daytona, the people (and elected officials) of Sturgis seem to want the bikers' money, but without the bikers. This was an excellent attempt to show that.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:52:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with.

What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you?


Explain how this is a victory for gun owners..

...in detail.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:53:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:54:11 AM EDT


Originally Posted By anr6t:


So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?


how about NYC?



 
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:55:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Now... if we could just get rid of the "some of us are more equal than others" attitude.


No doubt.

Guess us second-class citizens aren't as equal under the eyes of the law.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:56:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:57:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:
Another fine example of rights and freedom but only if it is folks they agree with.

What part of a pro gun victory is a pro gun victory is confusing some of you?



Pro gun victories are such because they benefit the people

This ruling excludes "the people" and benefits an organization

This is just my opinion on the definition of a "pro-gun" victory.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:58:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By akethan:
Drunk cops are bad, drunk cops with guns are worse.



The federal law requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol.



Can they be in a bar? or did they just decide to "let those guys off the hook"?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:59:55 AM EDT
Laws like this, as well as the one that Tim Kaine passed for Virginia Commonwealth's Attorneys show that it's not about the merits of who is carrying, but rather the social class from which that person hails...

I suspect that I am better trained in firearms use then AT LEAST one active or retired police officer who is currently allowed to carry anywhere they like under "HR218", yet I am not in the correct class to be afforded this priviledge.  I know I have more training then most of the CA's that were recently afforded concealed carry rights in places that serve alcohol in Virginia.

It's apparent that my well-being, or that of my family, is not effected as much by the oddball carry laws, and non-permissive environments as these classes who are allowed to carry.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:02:19 PM EDT
Double standard.

Police = better than you.

A police officer's life is worth more than your life.


I'll be happy when the same courtesy is extended to all law abiding citizens.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:02:31 PM EDT
So when does the push for civi national ccw come?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:05:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:There are more gun owners than cops. Sounds like gun owners need to get off their butts and fight for their cause.


Regular gun owners are not on the "same team" as the government.  It's nice, in theory, but in reality there will be no traction.

Ironically, it will come down to how the states issue permits, criteria, etc that will sink a universal carry law for all citizens.  Despite the fact that HR218 merely identifies the beneficiary as being a current or retired police officer –– irrespective of individual department training in firearms, self-defense and tactics.  A "Barney Fife" would be covered, but a "Larry Vickers" isn't....

Hmm...
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 12:06:21 PM EDT


Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:



Originally Posted By mcantu:


Originally Posted By anr6t:

So...this means that a cop from another state can carry in DC right?


how about NYC?

 




Both.
the NYPD has zero experience in encountering legally armed people on the street.  there have been instances where undercover/off-duty NYPD officers have intervened in a crime only to be shot by responding uniformed officers.  the automatic response here is that if they have a gun they are a bad guy...






 
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