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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/22/2003 2:02:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 2:22:06 AM EDT by Johnphin]
What if someone tried to hold the slide forward on their 1911 when they fired it? Would the recoiling force of the slide hurt them, or would it be just like firing a revolver?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:18:00 AM EDT
I don't think you could hold it tight enough to break any bones. The slide would cycle, despite even the tightest grip, and would definately take enough skin from the hand to hurt.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:25:28 AM EDT
I think it woudn't be that bad. Couldn't be too much worse than firing a revolver. Here, I'll hold your beer and watch.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:31:52 AM EDT
Why would you want to do this?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:37:36 AM EDT
I don't know about you guys, but I do everything i can to stay out of harms way. Except of course when I went skydiving.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:38:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Why would you want to do this?
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I wouldn't really, but I have a habbit of putting my thumb up on the back of the slide when I holster my XD. I do this to avoid depressing the thumb safety. This got my to wondering just how much it would hurt my thumb if the gun went off. Then I got to wondering if it was even possible to hold the slide still while firing the gun. Specifically I would like to know whether it would stay in place, break my thumb, or tear my thumb completely off and send it flying through the air.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:57:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnphin:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Why would you want to do this?
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I wouldn't really, but I have a habbit of putting my thumb up on the back of the slide when I holster my XD. I do this to avoid depressing the thumb safety. This got my to wondering just how much it would hurt my thumb if the gun went off. Then I got to wondering if it was even possible to hold the slide still while firing the gun. Specifically I would like to know whether it would stay in place, break my thumb, or tear my thumb completely off and send it flying through the air.
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I'm guessing that if you fired the gun with your thumb on the back of the slide it would either break it or at the very least dislocate it. If I remember correctly I thought someone here had a story about someone who broke and thumb doing just that.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:58:45 AM EDT
It would move your thumb in a big way. Whether or not it breaks the bone is just a matter of luck. You would certainly modify your behavior as a result.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 3:15:30 AM EDT
You'd be lucky if it just broke your thumb. I know a guy that did something like that with a 1911. He went to shoot it, braced up with his left hand, stuck his left thumb up (dont ask me why or how, I just saw the after effects), and fired. Broke the thumb, and cut/ripped/whatver a big'ol chunk of meat out of it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:28:45 AM EDT
Make sure you tape it and post it. [pistol] oh make sure you have sound, cause the level of pain can be linked to the sobbing noise 40 seconds after the action IMHO.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:47:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 4:48:22 AM EDT by pale_pony]
While taking an OHP Tactical Weapons class, we were forced by the instructor to hold the slide shut on our weapon while firing one round. I was about to shit my pants the first time I did it as I was shooting my HK USP .45. I told the instructor that I objected as some of the others in the class were shooting 9mms. The instructor told me that it was required to pass the class. Their reasoning was that in a weapon retention/SHTF situation, if you could get your hand over the top of the slide of the weapon and pin it to the frame, NOT TRYING TO HOLD THE SLIDE FROM THE REAR, BUT OVER THE TOP, you could limit your opponent to one shot while holding the weapon pointed away from you. After that, your oponent would have to tap/rack in order to get the weapon to function again. I did it and IT WORKED! You can hold the slide in place easily because the slide has no room to build up inertia or enough force to injure your hand. It was like walking on hot coals for the first time, scary as hell but it works. (editid fir spelin)
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:48:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnphin:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Why would you want to do this?
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I wouldn't really, but I have a habbit of putting my thumb up on the back of the slide when I holster my XD. I do this to avoid depressing the thumb safety. This got my to wondering just how much it would hurt my thumb if the gun went off. Then I got to wondering if it was even possible to hold the slide still while firing the gun. Specifically I would like to know whether it would stay in place, break my thumb, or tear my thumb completely off and send it flying through the air.
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This is as BONE HEAD Habbit and you need to break it immediately. I did this once when I was about 13 years old (with a .22 caliber High Standard VIctor), not purposely, I just had my head in my ass. The slide will go through your finger. I had to get stitched up. The slide left a perfectly shaped cut in my thumb, all the way to the bone, and this was just a .22 I was not placing the weapon in a holsterwhen this happened, just firing at a target, when my immature little 13 year old brain decided to raise up the thumb of my off hand.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:10:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:10:34 AM EDT by bung]
Study the grip demonstrated in this photo. Learn it! Love it! Live it! [img]http://www.tdsa.net/photos/ReadyGunLine.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:33:37 AM EDT
Could this cause one to loose a hand? - Johnphin
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... Yes, your hand would probably be [u]loose[/u].
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:12:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 7:12:46 AM EDT by Brohawk]
Listen carefully- when you fire a semiautomatic handgun the slide moves back quickly. [;)] I'd say it's a good idea to keep body parts out of the path of moving gun parts. I can see the point of holding the slide in putting a BG at a disadvantage as described above. There you would be talking about the choice between a potential injury to the hand and a multiple major wounds. Not a normal practice, though.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:28:17 AM EDT
Putting your hand over the top of the slide is very different than putting your thumb behind it. Putting the thumb up there exposes the fleshy pad on the tip to the slide as it comes flying back, and I'd guess that it would easily break it and probably avulse a lot of flesh.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:29:00 AM EDT
Funny, my Springfield XD doesn't have a thumb safety. Hmm....
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:38:50 AM EDT
I just don't even know where to start........ Why whould you .... Who taught.... When did you think.... Ahh fuck it. You'll learn the hard way I guess. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:50:11 AM EDT
In a recoil-operated arm, the slide and frame recoil together for an instant in response to the momentum. Because the frame is held, the initial velocity of the slide is what compresses the spring and cycles the action. In the .45 ACP, total weight is between 39 and 50 ounces...give or take a little. Using conservation of momentum, the inital velocity of the slide/frame is about 12 feet per second. With a slide mass of about 16 ounces, that is about 3 foot-lbs of energy you thumb has to absorb. That is very little energy...a fast pitch @ 90 MPH has about 100 foot-pounds of energy at 132 feet per second.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:09:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 8:14:22 AM EDT by lebrew]
I tried this once to see if what I was taught was true. Grasp the slide and frame and hang on tight(read GORILLA GRIP) while someone else is going to shoot it. Didn't hurt a bit, the slide went back but not enough to eject the spent round, so it jammed the 1911. Lebrew
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:25:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 8:26:23 AM EDT by deadeye47]
Heres another good one to try. Put a screw driver in the barrel and try to keep the bullet from coming out....you'll have to hold on real tight for this one..[grenade]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:43:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sydney7629: Funny, my Springfield XD doesn't have a thumb safety. Hmm....
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Pardon me? It has a grip safety, not a thumb safety. That's the little thing sticking out of the back of the grip that the web between your thumb and index finger depresses when you grip the gun. I guess people arguing syntax in the middle of a decent discussion is just part of internet boards... As for how I can to practice this habbit, here was my reasoning. When holstering the gun normally, holding the grip safety in, it is possible that something in the holster could depress the trigger, thus sending a bullet through my leg. With my thumb off of the safety, that possibility is greatly decreased, although if the gun malfunctioned or something, then my leg AND thumb would hurt. I figure that the gun malfunctioning is a lot less likely than something in the holster getting in the way of the trigger. Seriously, if my reasoning is messed up, please show me where. I [i]am[/i] eager to learn...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:33:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 10:36:48 AM EDT by Pat-fujimoto]
Almost every instructor I have ever had has recommended putting your thumb on the hammer(as to take it off the grip safety on 1911) when holstering the weapon. The reason for this is two-fold: #1. If you make the stupid and dangerous mistake of letting your finger(or something else) slide into the trigger guard while holstering. #2. If you make the stupid and dangerous mistake of not putting the slide safety on before holstering. If your thumb is on the hammer & off the grip safety it helps insure a safe holstering, by not having a necessary safety disengaged. Of course, this is only good for grip safety pistols like the 1911/XD. With DA/SA pistols like the SIG or Glock, you need to keep that finger STRAIGHT!!!!! -Fuji One more thing, IIRC, the XD has a slide-stop mech. built into the grip safety. If the grip safety is not depressed, the slide will not release. So, it is a good habit to holster without depressing the grip safety. I could be wrong on this, but I remember playing with one and not being able to move the slide until I depressed the grip safety.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:57:50 AM EDT
I say try it and let us know how it worked out for you.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:00:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony: While taking an OHP Tactical Weapons class, we were forced by the instructor to hold the slide shut on our weapon while firing one round. I was about to shit my pants the first time I did it as I was shooting my HK USP .45. I told the instructor that I objected as some of the others in the class were shooting 9mms. The instructor told me that it was required to pass the class. Their reasoning was that in a weapon retention/SHTF situation, if you could get your hand over the top of the slide of the weapon and pin it to the frame, NOT TRYING TO HOLD THE SLIDE FROM THE REAR, BUT OVER THE TOP, you could limit your opponent to one shot while holding the weapon pointed away from you. After that, your oponent would have to tap/rack in order to get the weapon to function again. I did it and IT WORKED! You can hold the slide in place easily because the slide has no room to build up inertia or enough force to injure your hand. It was like walking on hot coals for the first time, scary as hell but it works. (editid fir spelin)
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That's kinda neat!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:03:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pale_pony: While taking an OHP Tactical Weapons class, we were forced by the instructor to hold the slide shut on our weapon while firing one round. I was about to shit my pants the first time I did it as I was shooting my HK USP .45. I told the instructor that I objected as some of the others in the class were shooting 9mms. The instructor told me that it was required to pass the class. Their reasoning was that in a weapon retention/SHTF situation, if you could get your hand over the top of the slide of the weapon and pin it to the frame, NOT TRYING TO HOLD THE SLIDE FROM THE REAR, BUT OVER THE TOP, you could limit your opponent to one shot while holding the weapon pointed away from you. After that, your oponent would have to tap/rack in order to get the weapon to function again. I did it and IT WORKED! You can hold the slide in place easily because the slide has no room to build up inertia or enough force to injure your hand. It was like walking on hot coals for the first time, scary as hell but it works. (editid fir spelin)
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Live and learn. Great piece of info, thanks
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:38:33 AM EDT
If you place your thumb firmly against the back of a Glock slide & fire you will not get hurt & the slide will not move. I've tried it. It does not hurt. This has been the current practice by gangs in executions so they don't leave casings behind. So much for ballistic fingerprinting.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:50:52 PM EDT
Special forces and some police use suppressed "Entry Berettas" that have a slide lock lever on the back of the frame, thus making a single shot more quiet, because the slide doesn't cycle. They are very functional and reliable. Of course they are not 1911's only weenie 9mils. But I would think it would work on .45's also.
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