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Posted: 7/14/2005 5:24:19 PM EDT
If you zapped someone with one, then just kept going until the battery went dead, would that do a guy in?

Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:36:47 PM EDT
Definitely would depend on the strength of the taser. My step brother and I got into it pretty good. He hit me with it several times. Hurt like hell, but I'm still kicking.

It was one of those hand held deals. Not the gun, like you see on cops.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:39:18 PM EDT
I'm thinking the kind the cops use.


The real deal ones that shoot probes out of an air powered cartridge.

Would you be able to do someone in with one charge of the batteries, or would you have to put a fresh set/charge in?

Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:44:26 PM EDT
That is a damn good question. From what I have seen on TV it looks like they probably could kill somebody. I don't know about a healty adult make in good shape.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:45:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:46:58 PM EDT
No and no. 50,000 volts but no amps. It only overloads the nerves that send the messages for the muscles to work.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:48:37 PM EDT
and I am pretty sure the time is controlled also

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:49:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:51:28 PM EDT
Give sgtar15 a cigar for the right answer. Each 'blast' is timed to shut off at 5 seconds and the unit shuts itself off after 12 or so 5 second discharges. It has been a few years since Taser class so I'm not 100% sure on the last part (how many times).
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:53:12 PM EDT
I have not heard of an LEO who has died from the taser. And you have to be tased in order to use it. Same as pepper spray.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:54:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLawDog:
Give sgtar15 a cigar for the right answer. .



Can I get a blunt instead officer?

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:54:28 PM EDT
so with some mods, one of these could be a cool "emperor palpatine gun".

Higher amps and no time limit.


Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have not heard of an LEO who has died from the taser. And you have to be tased in order to use it. Same as pepper spray.



Please don't tell me what you guys do with the night stick.

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:55:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have not heard of an LEO who has died from the taser. And you have to be tased in order to use it. Same as pepper spray.




yeah, but they're not tazed over and over again until the battery runs dead
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:55:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
so with some mods, one of these could be a cool "emperor palpatine gun".

Higher amps and no time limit.





amps come at the cost of voltage.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:56:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2005 6:06:34 PM EDT by Bama-Shooter]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have not heard of an LEO who has died from the taser. And you have to be tased in order to use it. Same as pepper spray.



Please don't tell me what you guys do with the night stick.

SGat1r5



Go through a PR-24 course. I have never had more bruises in my life.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:58:20 PM EDT
A blunt skull? Blunt force trauma?

Oh, you mean a marijuana cigarette...........why not, you live in Cali. I thought that you got a bag of weed when you got your electricity turned on out there. It is the 'enlightened state' after all.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 5:58:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have not heard of an LEO who has died from the taser. And you have to be tased in order to use it. Same as pepper spray.



Please don't tell me what you guys do with the night stick.

SGat1r5



Go through a PR-24 course. I have never has more bruises in my life.



You mean they go Rodney King on your ass?

DAMN!

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:03:07 PM EDT
In my not so scientific realm, here is the answer. A taser, in and of itself, will not kill you. In combination with drug use, physical ailments, etc, the pain and spasms on the rest of the body cause the heart and/or respiratory systems to shut down.

No charge,
jd1
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:44:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2005 6:46:01 PM EDT by Johninaustin]
I'm far from healthy, but I'm still here. 5 hits and counting. I swear, we have some instructors that ENJOY getting tasered.

The gun is controlled by a microchip that also records every use, and can be downloaded. You cannot just go until the battery goes kaput. 5 second maximum then the gun shuts off.

My taser currently has 94 full charges in the power pack. I think the max times I can zap someone is 10. (it's programmable)
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:15:06 PM EDT
Stun gun maker backtracks about effects of multiple shocks



Multiple shocks with a Taser could impair breathing and even lead to death, the stun gun's manufacturer says in a new warning to law enforcement agencies.

The three-page bulletin, posted on the Taser International Inc. Web site and e-mailed to the company's 19,500 certified trainers, contradicts past statements the company has made to the public and law enforcement, as well as its own training manual, last issued in November 2004.




Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:43:56 PM EDT
I got to ride the REACT belt as part of our training the other day. 50000 volts x 8 seconds = ouch. It felt like someone jabbing my back superfast with two hot needles. It hurt, but I was still able to drop and do four pushups.

PIX of my back below:

Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:51:11 PM EDT
I dunno if the shock could kill him, but if it's pointy enough i guess you could stab him to death with it... or shove it down his throat so he suffocates...

it really depends man... it's all about power these days isn't it?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:51:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLawDog:
No and no. 50,000 volts but no amps. It only overloads the nerves that send the messages for the muscles to work.


Hmm. Trying to remember my BEE days. I seem to recall the equation E=I*R. You're going to get amps, albeit rather limited, have to in order for it to work, the # of amps will depend on the inherent resistance of the person getting tazed.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:54:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Stun gun maker backtracks about effects of multiple shocks



Multiple shocks with a Taser could impair breathing and even lead to death, the stun gun's manufacturer says in a new warning to law enforcement agencies.

The three-page bulletin, posted on the Taser International Inc. Web site and e-mailed to the company's 19,500 certified trainers, contradicts past statements the company has made to the public and law enforcement, as well as its own training manual, last issued in November 2004.







That article also says at least two cops have died.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 1:10:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 1:43:31 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
Speaking as a former EMT. I'd have to say, the problem is, that there's no such thing, as the mythical catagory of Health male's, you describe.

Everyone shares different genetic defects and health problems and there's no scanner, a cop can carry, in a street situation, that tell's him, if an outwardly healthy looking subject, has some sort of hidden congenital health problem, that would make TASER, O.C or just plain wrestling the subject to the ground, a fatal occurance.

Healthy looking 30 year old males, drop dead all the time, from everything from, unknown heart defects, to brain aneurysms, to pulmonary embolisms.

For example....If you were a cop and ran into former "Three's Company" sit-com star John Ritter, in a street situation, in which, he was breaking the Law, acting out in an aggressive manner, Refusing to comply and constituted, a threat to officer safety....Would he look healthy enough to you, that you'd TASER him? The answer of course, is yes, but there's no way, the you, as the officer holding the TASER, could have know, of the congenital heart defect, which brought an otherwise healthy looking John Ritter's life to an untimely end, in the prime of life.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 1:42:42 PM EDT
Amps kill, not volts. You can have 500,000 volts running through you and be okay (like on a vendergraph thingy), but if you get .1 amperes, you can have problems.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 2:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
Amps kill, not volts. You can have 500,000 volts running through you and be okay (like on a vendergraph thingy), but if you get .1 amperes, you can have problems.


The problem is you have to have the resitance to the 500k volts. If for some reason your body's resistance is lowered, or the current carries through the vitals you're pretty much screwed.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 2:41:21 PM EDT
I've been a Tazer instructor for a while now, and I've studied the issue for years.

It is not capable of stopping a human heart. It merely exacerbates any drug-induced condition a suspect is already in.

The answer is no.

Period, end of story.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 2:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
I've been a Tazer instructor for a while now, and I've studied the issue for years.

It is not capable of stopping a human heart. It merely exacerbates any drug-induced condition a suspect is already in.

The answer is no.

Period, end of story.


Tell that to the two cops who are dead after receiving the training.
Tell that to the company who is backpeddling right now to avoid lawsuits.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 3:07:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Speaking as a former EMT. I'd have to say, the problem is, that there's no such thing, as the mythical catagory of Health male's, you describe.

Everyone shares different genetic defects and health problems and there's no scanner, a cop can carry, in a street situation, that tell's him, if an outwardly healthy looking subject, has some sort of hidden congenital health problem, that would make TASER, O.C or just plain wrestling the subject to the ground, a fatal occurance.

Healthy looking 30 year old males, drop dead all the time, from everything from, unknown heart defects, to brain aneurysms, to pulmonary embolisms.



+1 on the "how do you tell if someone is healthy"
in the 60s and 70s heart attacks were for the aged
but, in the 80s, twenty year old atheletes started
dropping dead with heart attacks
I have heard of many people having them in their 30's
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 3:13:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2005 3:22:24 PM EDT by SoCalJBT]

Originally Posted By dport:

Tell that to the two cops who are dead after receiving the training.
Tell that to the company who is backpeddling right now to avoid lawsuits.




How exactly are they backpedalling? They've gone from calling a Taser "less lethal" to their current view that they are "non lethal."

Link Posted: 7/31/2005 3:25:22 PM EDT
I guess that I am missing the point. The degree of probability of getting a lethal dose from a Taser is ridiculously low compared to the probabilty of death from the alternative which is a .45. Nothing in this World is a guarantee except death and taxes. So out of the 100,000 or more Taserings approximately 100 people have died. Of those 100,000 or more, how many people would have been faced with the alternative and most assuredly died?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 3:46:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Speaking as a former EMT. I'd have to say, the problem is, that there's no such thing, as the mythical catagory of Health male's, you describe.

Everyone shares different genetic defects and health problems and there's no scanner, a cop can carry, in a street situation, that tell's him, if an outwardly healthy looking subject, has some sort of hidden congenital health problem, that would make TASER, O.C or just plain wrestling the subject to the ground, a fatal occurance.

Healthy looking 30 year old males, drop dead all the time, from everything from, unknown heart defects, to brain aneurysms, to pulmonary embolisms.



+1 on the "how do you tell if someone is healthy"
in the 60s and 70s heart attacks were for the aged
but, in the 80s, twenty year old atheletes started
dropping dead with heart attacks
I have heard of many people having them in their 30's



The only reason I said "healthy" in starting the thread was to rule out stuff like that. If you took someone certified in good health with no side conditions, and zapped the shit out of them with the tazer, could you kill him?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:03:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:

Originally Posted By dport:

Tell that to the two cops who are dead after receiving the training.
Tell that to the company who is backpeddling right now to avoid lawsuits.




How exactly are they backpedalling? They've gone from calling a Taser "less lethal" to their current view that they are "non lethal."



I take it you didn't read the article in the sister thread.



Multiple shocks with a Taser could impair breathing and even lead to death, the stun gun's manufacturer says in a new warning to law enforcement agencies.

The three-page bulletin, posted on the Taser International Inc. Web site and e-mailed to the company's 19,500 certified trainers, contradicts past statements the company has made to the public and law enforcement, as well as its own training manual, last issued in November 2004.

In fact, the 239-page training manual issued by the Arizona-based company contained its own contradictions, both urging officers to use multiple shocks to subdue unruly suspects and warning against it...

The 2004 Taser training manual did warn police against multiple blasts of the Taser once, on page 158. But that warning is contradicted at least three times in the same manual, including on page 157, where Taser users are instructed to use multiple shocks on subjects.

"The students should anticipate using additional cycles to subdue suspects," it reads. "[The first] cycle changes the behavior, and the subsequent cycles allow for apprehension in most cases...

A major part of Taser's defense for years has been that a medical examiner has never named the weapon as a cause of death. That changed last week when a Chicago coroner named the Taser as the primary cause of a jailed prisoner's death.

In the Chicago case, police Tasered a suspect two times and one of the blasts was prolonged — 57 seconds. The company counsels against both multiple and prolonged shocks in the new bulletin...

The company's medical research finds that the weapons "generally" do not cause death, according to the new warning. But the document advises police to seek to control an unruly suspect immediately after the first blast rather than using the weapon again...

Police should avoid multiple blasts of the Taser "to minimize the potential for overexertion of the subject," according to the new warning. In addition, extended Taser shocks can harm people who are suffering from "excited delirium," the bulletin states.

"Excited delirium is a potentially fatal condition caused by a complex set of physiological conditions," according to the warning. "These subjects are at significant and potentially fatal health risks from further prolonged exertion and/or impaired breathing."

Excited delirium was named as the cause of death in 18 Taser-related cases, according to Amnesty International. Sometimes seen in drug abusers, those experiencing excited delirium often display erratic behavior and almost superhuman strength, medical experts say.


That's some of the highlights. I did confuse the part about the two men in Gwinnett County; I thought they were Deputies.

As an instructor, you should really keep up with this stuff.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:45:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

That's some of the highlights. I did confuse the part about the two men in Gwinnett County; I thought they were Deputies.

As an instructor, you should really keep up with this stuff.



I did receive and read the email they referenced here. I stand by my previous assertion that a Taser can not stop a human heart. The drug induced and "excited delirium" issues have been known for a while. The coroner's report referenced is the first one that has listed a Taser as the primary cause of death. Others have listed it only preliminarily as the primary cause, but they always have amended their findings once the toxicology and/or autopsy showed otherwise.

The 57 second blast was friggin ridiculous. We train officers to hold onto the officer being hit with the Taser to condition them into realizing that they can't be shocked while touching them (with notable exceptions, such as touching the darts while they are energized). In doing this, they are confident that they can approach and quickly cuff the suspect WHILE they are being Tased, not after.

I don't remember if they still have the master instructor video on their website, but you should see what they go through to get certified. I'm not exactly sure how many times they get hit in a day, but let's just say it's probably around 50+ times. We all get the minor burns from either the belt or the allegator clips, but not one of the instructors have been killed or severly injured. Firearms instructors, baton instructors, defensive tactics instructors, defensive driving instructors, etc., would love to have that kind of track record.
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