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Posted: 2/23/2007 12:27:43 PM EST
The more I think about it - the more I think "no".

America was very reluctant to enter WWII. It was only after Pearl Harbor that we had a movement to enter the war.

However - when you look at the death tolls of various large battles and the carnage that most certainly took place - these make the pictures of Iraq pale in comparison. If we had the same media we had in WWII that we do today (internet, fax, television) I wonder how long public support would have lasted. Would the men be as willing to sign up. Would a draft had to have been put in place? A media black out and censorship would never had worked, because the fax and internet would allow info to get out all over the world. Even if some how official channels were silenced, unofficial ones wouldn't.


The fact of the matter is - media has forever changed the face of war. Even if you are winning you can be made to look like the bad guy. No one likes to see dead bodies - especially of our own. The results from Iraq isnt as moral inspiring as raising the flag over Iwa Jijma - but our losses are less than one battle in WWII. I think the american public can be very short sighted and unwilling to stick out any war if they had access to the information we now have.

So - just wondering what you think would have been different if this was the case.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:39:19 PM EST
One of many things I find lacking is how the government isnt really speaking out for the war. You get a few top people speaking, but there isnt really a campaign for the war like there was back then.

We need to bring back highlights of what we are doing over there, and get some more support going. Maybe they need to broadcast the AFN pentagon chanel just like they do for us overseas guys. It would give the public a new version aside from the regular msm. Get some commercials going with vets speaking about the war. When all you have is the liberal media speaking what do you expect?

I, as a vet, always take the oppurtunity to talk to people about it, and after doing so they always see the light and are supportive. We need more people who have been there speaking out, and to a large audience. We need to capitalize on how dug in Al Qaeda is in Iraq, and put out the message these are the guys responsbile for 9/11, and we are hunting them right now and we need your support to continue doing so. Get some guys talking about how they joined to fight the terrorists, and how we are getting them by the dozens everyday. Im quite sure it would make a big impact and would be much more useful than anything the liberal MSM could do.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:39:24 PM EST
I agree.

The news media has gone from reporting the news to spreading propaganda and pushing any agenda they can come up with (facts or no facts).


Unfortunately,"We the People" are mostly to blame.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:42:48 PM EST
Yes, because the Govt had the power to censor the press during WWII because Congress had declared War.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:49:14 PM EST
I think it would have been a tougher sell to the American public with the resources we have today. What do you think the Liberal media would have said about the Dresden bombings where the British and Americans actually targeted civilians and killed some 13,000 to break the backs of the Germans?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:54:25 PM EST
Nope
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:56:41 PM EST
We always get the Government and media we deserve
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:59:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/23/2007 1:03:41 PM EST by ben72227]
Different situation though guys.

In WWII, the Japanese terrorists attacked us, so we attacked Japan...

In this war, the Saudi terrorists attacked us...so we attacked...IRAQ?

The 'reasoning' for this war was shitty, the planning was shitty, and there were a whole host of other problems as well (i.e. the sectarian strife/civil war aspect).

The whole 'getting rid of tyranny to install democracy' argument was dumb; as if that were the case we could have just invaded someplace a LOT closer - Haiti, Cuba, etc.

But mainly, the handling of the war was shitty. Rumsfeld should have been fired long ago instead of waiting so long...And we don't have any stand-out people like back then - no Eisenhowser, no Patton, etc.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:20:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Yes, because the Govt had the power to censor the press during WWII because Congress had declared War.


Yes - but the point is if we had the modern media of today. Even if ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX were propoganda machines, information leaked through FAX and Internet would be filtered to the public with ease.

Even with out the internet, the FAX is one of the things credited with the fall of the USSR - it was a information revolution.

Information is power. In the past information could be controlled. That is no longer the case. I dont think any free nation has the stomach to handle a 'real' war ever again. Especially one over seas. We would have to have a 9/11 2-3 times a year to keep the first lit.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:32:42 PM EST
Could WWII have been fought by the US if they had todays media tools?

YA VOLD MEIN HERR!!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:37:00 PM EST
I was watching Clint's movie on Iwo Jima and although I didn't get to finish it it seemed they were trying to make the point that we were broke and that the public was sick of the war and wouldn't buy War Bonds till they came up with the cool flag raising picture. So, if that's true then yes, the public will only support war so long.....unless it's happening on their soil....then I'd say it's a way different story.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:44:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:51:23 PM EST
Sure it could have been fought, but if it had we woud be typing this in either German or Japanese now.

Now it is looking like we will have a choice between our illegal immigrant or islamofacist overlords
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:52:41 PM EST
is amazing to me how the everyone takes the current times and then applies it to things like wwII..

some things.. first, remember how everyone felt after 911. i mean everyone. its been what.. 6 years with a lot of that time spent bumping about in iraq and folks are tired of it in general, it doesnt seem to go anywhere and there have been no attacks since (a few attempts and some weirdos.. but nothing big). the threat has faded from folks conciousness..

so take 911.. apply that feeling to dec 7 1941 and put two world powers, germany and japan on the board, with millions of men under arms, superbly trained with the infrastructure to support war, the national will to prosecute it and militaries that had been training and fighting since the mid 30s. take japan's navy for instance..

germany and japan posed real threats. if we had not faught them, europe would be under german rule and all of asia and australia and the pacicific would be under japanese rule. there would be no jewish folks anywere except in the us. and thats if we ourselves hadnt been conquered by the combined might of germany and japan.

so those countries were real threats. with huge armies, demonstrated will to use them and profiency in their use.. and the american pulbic knew this, felt this and was behind the war effort till the end. flags of our fathers makes it look like we were tired of fighting and ready to get on with other stuff.. perhaps we were tired. but this country was commited to winning the war whatever it costs..

iraq just does not compare to wwii. trying to use today's attitudes to look at wwII is downright silly and unrealistic...

iraq <> wwII

remember how we (all of us) felt after 911.. if that was say an attack that began a war between the us and another modern power, china or russia.. we would know what was at stake and what was necessary to win.. the whole 'war-on-terror' is something else..
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:54:50 PM EST
A vital tool to winning and keeping support for a war is propaganda. Our gov't hasn't been able to control the propaganda war here at home since Vietnam.

The gov't did okay in Gulf War 1 but too restrictive. In Iraqi Freedom it started out good with the embedded reporters but faded about the time the soldiers in the supply convoy were captured.

It's been all downhill ever since. When the media has total control over what gets airtime; they get to project the image of the war they want.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:57:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
yes it could have.

NOT becuase of the media but becuase of the people and our culture during that time.

if they had the same attitudes our vocal idiots spout today, we'd be speaking a combination of german and japanese right now.


I agree, but it would have been harder than hell. Look at the death tolls for Iwo, or any of the other Japenese held islands. Maybe now that I'm writing this it would be a toss up.. Could you see the 6:00 new with pictures of US GI's using a flame thrower on a cave and seeing burning Japenese come out, or throwing gernades in the caves? Shit I think people would have a shit fit seeing the Japenese come out of the cave burning only to be mowed down by some Thomson toting GI's. There would have to be allot of censorship as the public could not stomach it. Read the book "Flyboys" not the movie but the book about WW2 naval pilots that flew the Avengers, hell it was GW's squadren. The shit the Japenese did to us is unforgiveable! So if they had todays media even with the frame of mind we had then, without censorship and showing what they were doing to our guys, no.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:03:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By GSAR426:
I think it would have been a tougher sell to the American public with the resources we have today. What do you think the Liberal media would have said about the Dresden bombings where the British and Americans actually targeted civilians and killed some 13,000 to break the backs of the Germans?



We did better than that… 35,000 would be nearer the mark…

Pales into significance with the raid on Tokyo March 10, 1945… 100,000+ japs incinerated.


We fought wars to win back in the day!

ANdy

Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:07:42 PM EST
Yes, it was a completely different type of war, there were front lines and actual progress or loss could be precieved, can that be said of this war, and I dont mean building schools I mean progess against the enemy?

Think about some of the key battles such as the Battle of the Bulge, what the brits did in holding the german airforce at bay. How about what the 101st being surronded and holding out. How about one of the best damn quotes ever "nuts."

It was a different war with an actual stated enemy, an evil that could be seen an pointed at. Who are we fighting in Iraq, insurgents, al queda, Iran, Syria, hell if I know. Do we actually have a stated goal in Iraq... and bring democracy is not a valid answer, we all know that will never work. How about the war on terrorism what is our stated goal there? Are we going to end terrorism, now there is a pipe dream if I ever heard one!

Thats the difference, stop blaming the media for all the wrong in the world my friend, they are not the root of all evil. Most of the media are talking heads for the govt and just regurgatate what they are told. Sure sometimes the put out a story about this or that screw up, what exactly is wrong with that? Its there job, they are supposed to keep the govt in check, if they did not you and I would be in a world of hurt, Think about that for a minute, what if the media were not allowed to speak of the govt in the negative, what kind of world would we be living in? How would you govt treat you?

Please don't get me wrong I believe there are people out there that hate me simply because I am an American. That is why I have a CCW permit, its why I put togther a bugout box and have taken other steps to protect my family. But in my opinion Iraq amounts to taking our eye off the ball and not going after the real threat, and that scares the crap out of me way more the kids in Iraq with no schools.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:08:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By mstennes:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
yes it could have.

NOT becuase of the media but becuase of the people and our culture during that time.

if they had the same attitudes our vocal idiots spout today, we'd be speaking a combination of german and japanese right now.


I agree, but it would have been harder than hell. Look at the death tolls for Iwo, or any of the other Japenese held islands. Maybe now that I'm writing this it would be a toss up.. Could you see the 6:00 new with pictures of US GI's using a flame thrower on a cave and seeing burning Japenese come out, or throwing gernades in the caves? Shit I think people would have a shit fit seeing the Japenese come out of the cave burning only to be mowed down by some Thomson toting GI's. There would have to be allot of censorship as the public could not stomach it. Read the book "Flyboys" not the movie but the book about WW2 naval pilots that flew the Avengers, hell it was GW's squadren. The shit the Japenese did to us is unforgiveable! So if they had todays media even with the frame of mind we had then, without censorship and showing what they were doing to our guys, no.


the current frame of mind hates the current war.. what if the media's attitude was completely different.. say it wanted to see those soldiers burned alive and shot down? what makes you think that just because today, the media has a 'anti-war' attitude it couldna go the opposite way? and btw, history is replete with such stances.. pacifism isnt a permanent irrepariable media bias.. it can swing the other way just as bad (see nazi germany,.,,)
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:09:19 PM EST
No.

The Left will be the death of the United States.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:17:36 PM EST
st0newall has it right.

9/11 made the nation feel very much like it felt right after Dec 7th... In 1941 the answer was obvious and we went after a national target - Japan (it just so happens that Germany and Italy also declare war on us)


but after 9/11 we can't hold a nation directly responsible... however, we do find national unity in pushing the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Wow that was an amazing time - the whole country was behind that military effort and there was NO dissent, from either party. Remember the early demand? Give us Bin Laden or get bombed to heck and back?

That war was fully supported and justified in the american people's eyes.
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