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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/14/2005 5:00:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 5:03:47 PM EDT by cdtracing]
I came across this about six months ago but in light of the current news out of Iran I thought I might bring this up now. What do you all think about this.

Chris

www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_7978.shtml

Could Iran Checkmate America?
By Rachel Neuwirth
MichNews.com
Apr 25, 2005


On March 29, 2005 the London Arab daily Al-Hayat published a report on Iran's current preparedness for an American or Israeli attack. The report was translated by www.memri.org (Middle East Media Research Institute). MEMRI introduced the report as follows:

“In recent months, commanders of Iran's Revolutionary Guards and armed forces have announced their complete preparedness for a possible military attack on Iran's nuclear installations and other sensitive sites. Iranian spokesmen have declared that Iran's response would be formidable.”

The interview indicates the hostility, confidence, determination and intractability of the Iranian leadership. Following are excerpts from that article:

"Iranian military sources say that the armed forces and the Revolutionary Guards have made all the field preparations for handling a surprise attack on targets within Iran. [These preparations] are not limited to the nuclear installations, which are dispersed among the cities and various locations - Bushehr, Isfahan, Arak, Natanz, Tehran, Yazd, and others - but also include military and industrial plants and dams.

"...Iran's military command has taken into account the possibility of a disruption of [communications] between military posts and the central command... As a precautionary measure, the command has ordered all military and Revolutionary Guards sectors to respond swiftly - within no more than an hour and without waiting for orders - against pre-selected targets, [in light of anticipated] international political pressures that might force Iran to not respond.

"The objective is to deliver a harsh blow to the U.S. and its ally Israel at the outset, and then to expand the arena, in light of international efforts to contain the crisis and limit its scope and intensity, so as to ignite the whole region [emphasis added]. This way Iran will assure its right to respond.

"...All the countries that host U.S. military forces - particularly Iraq, CENTCOM [U.S. Central Command] in Al-Siliya [Qatar], the Al-'Odeid base in Qatar, and the Fifth Fleet command in Bahrain - are among the sites Iran might consider as targets. However, the biggest fish of all is Israel, which is likely to suffer 'hellfire' - particularly when the Iranian response 'will use [varied] weapons and reach other targets that the aggressors are not expecting them [to reach].'

"These sources added that although Iran anticipates a devastating attack that will destroy a significant part of its economic and industrial achievements of the past 26 years, it is now pondering an issue that seems to it to be justified: Can the Bush administration grasp that it will have to send home at least five [dead] American soldiers per day? And how will the administration respond to the [American] people, who will question the benefit of the attack on Iran..."

According to Al-Hayat, Iranian military sources had reported that during a meeting between a French diplomat and Expediency Council Chairman Rafsanjani, the diplomat asked Rafsanjani whether Iran would relinquish its nuclear program, and was answered with an unequivocal "no." When the diplomat said that the U.S. had selected 325 targets within Iran as the first targets in any possible American attack, Rafsanjani explained to his guest that the Iranian counter-attack would be just as powerful and devastating.

The report continued,

"When the Western diplomat asked, 'What if the place in which you are convening (the Marble Palace, a few dozen meters from the Islamic Republic's Presidential Building and the residence of Iranian Leader Ali Khamenei) is also among the targets?' Rafsanjani answered succinctly, 'Even if I am the target, [Iran will not relinquish its nuclear program].'"

The above interview represents the public posture of Iran’s leadership, which is determined to freely enrich uranium, and appears immune from any bribe or any threat.

They are raising the stakes to the limit and daring us to take them on, apparently believing that we will blink first. What do we do now and how big a price can we afford to pay?

The following describes a hypothetical threat to American security based on plausible possibilities. The 9/11 Commission cited “a failure of imagination,” by our government for our being unprepared for the 9/11 attack. Some may say the following hypothetical scenario is far-fetched but in the wake of 9/11 this scenario appears a lot less unlikely than before.

Imagine that a sealed, top-secret message were received in the White House from clandestine sources in the Middle East, to be read only by the President and Vice President. The message would read as follows:

“This message represents the government of Iran in brotherly alliance with al Qaeda and other revolutionary Islamic organizations based in many countries. This is payback time for what America did to us in the past. As you now prepare to deny us our right to develop nuclear power we now tell you that we have already triumphed over you. It is checkmate, and we now give you our ultimatum because you are now under our power and we are not anymore under your power.

“We remember your past crimes against Iran. Your C.I.A. forced our elected leader Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh from power and installed your agent, the hated Shah. You armed and supported Saddam Hussein even after he attacked Iran.

“When the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power we tested you by holding your diplomats hostage for 444 days under Jimmy Carter while you, the great superpower, remained helpless and humiliated. When 241 U.S. Marines were blown up in Beirut in 1983 Ronald Reagan turned tail and ran away. We observed how Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter made a deal with North Korea that any child could see was meant to be broken. Now that they have announced they violated that agreement and have nuclear weapons and missiles, we observe your confusion and helplessness.

“You claim to be a super power but your foreign policy is amateurish and your society is weak because your values are corrupt. You lack resolve and you cannot bear the pain of real sacrifice. After we understood your weakness we began our long-term program to become stronger than you.

“We have learned from the Soviet experience during the cold war. Over the years we have implanted many sleeper cells all over your country. Your internal security and border control are weak and allow millions to illegally enter your country and to vanish from sight. If you cannot block massive amounts of drugs from flowing into your country you certainly cannot block WMD components which occupy far less volume. Today our agents are multi-ethnic, men and women and various ages, so that they resemble ordinary Americans and are nearly invisible. Your country is easy to penetrate and easy to hide out in for long periods.

“We now have developed the ability to inflict any degree of damage on your country that we choose. We can strike anywhere, and in the process multiply the effects by also paralyzing your population through terror. We can do it anonymously so you will not know for certain against whom to retaliate because you have so many enemies. Sleeper agents eliminate our need to depend on long-range missiles that also reveal their country of origin when fired.

“We have a variety of WMD in position and are constantly increasing their lethality along with improved battle tactics. We will retain power in reserve so that you will never know just how much additional damage we could inflict and any attack on Muslims anywhere will bring additional retaliation on your soil. We have enough power in place now to quickly reduce America to a third world status. The same technology infrastructure that allows you to project power abroad becomes your great internal vulnerability. We have long analyzed your entire internal infrastructure, from your economic vulnerabilities to the psychology of terror, and we know very well how to exploit them all to our advantage.

“Any attempt on your part to root out our sleeper cells would fail because they are so well hidden and also because it might trigger painful retaliation. This means that we can hurt you far more than you can hurt us. Even if you kill millions of us it will not save you from a devastating response by our sleeper cells on your people. We also have the capability in an extreme situation to simultaneously attack your troops and bases throughout the Middle East while creating havoc inside your country.

“How many millions of Americans are you willing to sacrifice in a war with us? This is our version of the mutual assured destruction policy of the cold war, but with a big difference. Unlike the Soviets, we do not fear death, while you are terrified over incurring small loses. Even exterminating Iran still leaves over 1.2 billion enraged Muslims in the world seeking vengeance, plus a devastating cutoff in your oil imports.

“Despite your great offensive power, including nuclear weapons, you are actually more vulnerable than we are, and this is now going to cost you dearly. You have foolishly waited too long to confront us and now it is too late for you to safely do so.

“Our ultimatum: First, you will keep this message secret to prevent your own embarrassment, avoid creating public panic and to avoid helping your political opponents. You will invent a pretext to cease interfering with our nuclear development in any way. You will begin to withdraw all of your forces from the Middle East. You will remain passive as we create a two-tier international oil market. One tier for America and another for everyone else who cooperates with us.

“America will face external imposed rationing of oil imports combined with higher prices. All of our friends will get preferred treatment regarding allotment and price. We will be working with other oil exporting countries to shift their exports away from America and to the huge and growing markets of Asia including China and India. We will be influencing Canada, Mexico and Venezuela to shift their oil exports away from America and towards Asia.

“It will be interesting to see how many of your so-called friends and allies will choose to stick by your side if it requires them to sacrifice on your behalf. We will punish them if we find them trans-shipping the oil we sold them to you. We will continue to isolate you so you will be standing alone and friendless.

“You will stave off internal destruction only as long as you comply with our ultimatum. In the long run your power will be greatly diminished and Iran will emerge as the dominant power in the Middle East. In the longer run America will continue to weaken internally while Islamic influence increases inside your own society.

“We of the Islamic revolution represent the wave of the future and you Americans are a declining power. The best you can hope for is to avoid attack while your society gradually becomes Islamic.”

After reading the Iranian message the President and Vice President pondered whether the message was authentic and whether the threat was credible. And suppose Iran were to actually send such a secret message to the President. Could we be certain that they are only bluffing? There was no certain answer because our intelligence on internal developments inside Iran is very poor. Deciding on a proper response presented a grave dilemma. We need wise leadership, and time may be running out.

Likely? It's hard to tell--but given the public remarks by Iranian officials, perhaps it ought to be considered.

According to Breaking News on www.WorldNetDaily.com, US intelligence has identified a new possible threat from Iran. This makes the above hypothetical scenario more plausible.

Copyright by Rachel Neuwirth
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:42:35 PM EDT
Not a fat chance!
USA.........6000 Nukes
Iran..........maybe 1 or 2
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:17:48 PM EDT
I'd have to agree with PDshooter, I think if the world ever went MAD (pun intended) we should just glass the entire Middle East, I don't favor genocide, but if it did come to that you really can't afford to be squeamish. I do think we need more human intelligence for just these types of situations though. People on the inside who could tell us if it's real or a bluff, and help root out the sleeper cells if they exist.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:01:48 PM EDT
Do you really think in our current political climate, (PC Bull S*#t), any of our limp wristed politicians whould have the back bone to launch a preemptive strike againsed Iran? Also consider how lax our border security has been, with approx. 11 million iliegal aliens here don't you think we might have a considerable number of islamic terrorists already here. Granted the letter is hypothetical, the threat is real. Have you been hearing the rhetoric coming from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Check out some of these links, here or here , or here.

This kinda stuff makes you wonder WTF going on. Just more food for thought

Chris
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:20:09 AM EDT
The only reason why anyone cares about Iran's future nukes is the same reason why everyone cared about Iraq's supposed WMD's: Israel. We're trying to protect Israel, not ourselves. Iraq and Iran are a long ways away from being able to hit us with a missle, even if they had the warheads. They could easily hit Israel, though, and for some reason, we consider that a bad thing. Israel knows that if several of the Arab countries could get WMD's, it'd be all over for them in a nuclear war. If a number of countries nuked Israel, and Israel nuked several large Arab cities, the Arabs could survive, while the Jews would be wiped out.

If you ask me, I think it's aweful that we're sending troops over there to die just to save a bunch of ungrateful Israelis. And the fact that we tell them that they're fighting for "freedom" makes a mockery of one of this nation's founding principles.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:38:08 PM EDT
damn muskrat, you should read the bible! the longer Isreal is a soverien nation, the longer this age will last. In the end Isreal will stand alone and WILL NOT BE DEFEATED...........It is written.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:01:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_m14:
damn muskrat, you should read the bible! the longer Isreal is a soverien nation, the longer this age will last. In the end Isreal will stand alone and WILL NOT BE DEFEATED...........It is written.



We can't purposely delay God's plan. Those prophecies are about signs, not causes. Besides, why are you worried about it? The rapture's supposed to happen before the battle at Armageddon, right?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:21:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Muskrat:

Originally Posted By clean_m14:
damn muskrat, you should read the bible! the longer Isreal is a soverien nation, the longer this age will last. In the end Isreal will stand alone and WILL NOT BE DEFEATED...........It is written.



We can't purposely delay God's plan. Those prophecies are about signs, not causes. Besides, why are you worried about it? The rapture's supposed to happen before the battle at Armageddon, right?



The first one anyway.
Those who aren't worthy get left behind to prove their worth.
Then there is the second rapture.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:30:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

The first one anyway.
Those who aren't worthy get left behind to prove their worth.
Then there is the second rapture.



Two raptures? I don't remember seeing that in the Bible. Do you have a reference?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 10:34:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Muskrat:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

The first one anyway.
Those who aren't worthy get left behind to prove their worth.
Then there is the second rapture.



Two raptures? I don't remember seeing that in the Bible. Do you have a reference?



Not offhand.
Maybe second rapture isn't the right word.
More like - those left behind will have their chance to prove their goodness to God.
Ya know - reject the Beast, etc.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:37:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 5:41:09 AM EDT by captainobvious]
I've been reading the Bible and have yet to read the word 'rapture.'

Isn't this what a bird of prey does to a rabbit?

help
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:26:58 AM EDT
"Rapture" is more of a doctrinal word.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 10:49:29 AM EDT
never happen we have Stealth aircraft, Longe range cruise missels, unmaned UAV that carry weapons and we would just flat out beat their ass. Not to mention Israel would get involved and whip some ass as well. But overall Iran talks alot but would never do anything.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By voodochild:
never happen we have Stealth aircraft, Longe range cruise missels, unmaned UAV that carry weapons and we would just flat out beat their ass. Not to mention Israel would get involved and whip some ass as well. But overall Iran talks alot but would never do anything.



That's true. The talk about nukes is probably just a defensive measure. I can see why the Arabs are afraid of Israel having nukes. Of all the countries in the world, Israel is probably the last country I'd trust with something like a nuke. And the Arabs know that if Israel goes wild with them, they'll be the first targets...

Besides, I thought that all the talk was about nuclear power plants, not nuclear weapons. They are very different things. Has there been a recent development I didn't hear about?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:38:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:40:17 PM EDT by cdtracing]
This current article has some more info on Iran for you I'll just post the Link for you read.

Muskrat, wasn't the North Korean nuclear program for energy porposes also. You can't possibly believe with all the terrorist support Iran has given throughout the past two and a half decades they would not arm al qaeda or another group. Iran wouldn't need to attack the US directly the terrorists would just bring the crap across our already open borders and detonate either a nuke or a dirty bomb some where.

I'm sure most of you have already heard about this but just in case, About 400 Pounds of Explosive Material Missing , this should get folks a little nervous.

Oh, BTW, the head of the UN's IAEA elberidi, or whatever his name is has already stated that Iran will have a nuclear weapon by March 2006 only two weeks ago.

Chris
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:46:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:00:58 PM EDT
This nuke talk freaks me out. I would rather die fighting than be vaporized in my sleep, or die later of radiation poisoning. Pre-emptive strike Iran, it's the only wa to be sure.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
A few pushes of the right buttons and Iran is utterly devoid of all life except radioactivity-tolerant cockroaches. Checkmate. Your move....hello? Oh, you're all dead. Nevermind.

Case closed.


Now that that's settled, let's move along to a question that's actually worth discussion.


CJ



Who would the balls in DC to push those "buttons", the Dumacrats would not only try to stop the Republicans they would be actively supporting Iran.

I agree with you, I would be in favor of turning the whole Shithole into a glass factory, but those in Washington are to chickenshit to do anything to offend the muslims. Mean while they keep killing Christians and Jews. This is WWIV.

Chris
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:51:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 8:51:50 PM EDT by Muskrat]

Originally Posted By cdtracing:Who would the balls in DC to push those "buttons", the Dumacrats would not only try to stop the Republicans they would be actively supporting Iran.

I agree with you, I would be in favor of turning the whole Shithole into a glass factory, but those in Washington are to chickenshit to do anything to offend the muslims. Mean while they keep killing Christians and Jews. This is WWIV.

Chris



To my knowledge, the only Christians they've killed have been helping Israel in some way. We can keep people out there looking for bin Laden, but why invade all these countries? Where does it end? First it was Afghanistan, then it was Iraq, now it's Iran, then it'll be Syria...are we just going to conquer the Arab world? You can't possibly believe that we're doing it to protect ourselves. We've given Israel nuclear weapons and many, many billions of dollars for military spending. Let them fight their own wars.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:55:58 PM EDT
The Republicans would be no more willing to nuke an Arab country than the Democrats. Bush and his family/ friends have the Saudis dicks so far down their throats that it's amazing they can still talk. They're getting richer by the day, they don't give a fuck about anything but pork.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:49:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 7:53:19 AM EDT by Signal_SAW_gunner]

To my knowledge, the only Christians they've killed have been helping Israel in some way. We can keep people out there looking for bin Laden, but why invade all these countries? Where does it end? First it was Afghanistan, then it was Iraq, now it's Iran, then it'll be Syria...are we just going to conquer the Arab world? You can't possibly believe that we're doing it to protect ourselves. We've given Israel nuclear weapons and many, many billions of dollars for military spending. Let them fight their own wars.



The current situation in the world in regards to radicalized Islam has been going on for 1400 years, since the fall of the Eastern Roman empire and the establishment of the Caliphate under the Persians.

To think that the only Christians that have been killed were helping Israel is simply wrong. The beginning of the current flare up occured at the 1972 Olympic games in Munich when Palistinian Terrorists murdered the Israeli Olympic team.

Attacks against the United States have only become more and more daring and varied in scope, but have been occuring for the past Three Decades!

Do you forget the two previous attmpts to destroy the World Trade Center before 9/11??

This is not a new situation. One can either Learn from History or be doomed to repeat it. I dont want a repeat of what has happened before.

Better in my opinion... FAR better... to deal with situations as they arrise rather than await them at your doorstep.

Do you stop the murdering band of thugs at the edge of town? The end of your street? the Neighbor's house? or wait until they are in your living room to put up a fight?

If you wait, there will be no-one to help you, and the enemy has grown strong and emboldened.

"For Evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing."
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:39:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PanzerMK7:
The Republicans would be no more willing to nuke an Arab country than the Democrats. Bush and his family/ friends have the Saudis dicks so far down their throats that it's amazing they can still talk. They're getting richer by the day, they don't give a fuck about anything but pork.









Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:59:59 AM EDT
We "could" drive them back to the stone age. Will we? Probably not.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:00:09 PM EDT
The report says that they'll hit the US where it hurts, but I fail to see that backed up by the rest of their jack-offery.

It says that they'll send 5 US soldiers home dead, per day.

5 per day? That's very unfortunate, and a terrible loss for all who are killed and wounded, but they're shitting themselves if they think that 5 dead per-day is going to collapse the United States, or have any appreciable effect on a military level.

That's assuming we occupied Iran, which would be totally unnecessary. Flatten their military and WMD capability and get the hell out.

I hope they realize the shitstorm they intend to start if they send so much as ONE biological or chemical attack Israel's way.

Iran and Syria both have biological and chemical arsenals, but chemical weapons are grossly ineffective in regards to effective radius, and biological weapons are easily defensible in a military environment.



In other words, this is all one big attempt, by Iran, to make it appear as if they have a large penis.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PanzerMK7:
The Republicans would be no more willing to nuke an Arab country than the Democrats. Bush and his family/ friends have the Saudis dicks so far down their throats that it's amazing they can still talk. They're getting richer by the day, they don't give a fuck about anything but pork.



You mst be a unemployed "DEM"
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:50:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Signal_SAW_gunner:

To my knowledge, the only Christians they've killed have been helping Israel in some way. We can keep people out there looking for bin Laden, but why invade all these countries? Where does it end? First it was Afghanistan, then it was Iraq, now it's Iran, then it'll be Syria...are we just going to conquer the Arab world? You can't possibly believe that we're doing it to protect ourselves. We've given Israel nuclear weapons and many, many billions of dollars for military spending. Let them fight their own wars.



The current situation in the world in regards to radicalized Islam has been going on for 1400 years, since the fall of the Eastern Roman empire and the establishment of the Caliphate under the Persians.

To think that the only Christians that have been killed were helping Israel is simply wrong. The beginning of the current flare up occured at the 1972 Olympic games in Munich when Palistinian Terrorists murdered the Israeli Olympic team.

Attacks against the United States have only become more and more daring and varied in scope, but have been occuring for the past Three Decades!

Do you forget the two previous attmpts to destroy the World Trade Center before 9/11??

This is not a new situation. One can either Learn from History or be doomed to repeat it. I dont want a repeat of what has happened before.

Better in my opinion... FAR better... to deal with situations as they arrise rather than await them at your doorstep.

Do you stop the murdering band of thugs at the edge of town? The end of your street? the Neighbor's house? or wait until they are in your living room to put up a fight?

If you wait, there will be no-one to help you, and the enemy has grown strong and emboldened.

"For Evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing."




Good point! I'll stand with you "SAW Gunner"
We can watch "ALL" our leftest friends, wine ,and cry, while they get there heads cut off!
Retired guard.
MOS.....11B, 63B, 43E
19yrs,5months 15days
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:23:52 PM EDT
Hooah!

All I would suggest is that people start acting. We can fix our broken ass system of government if we all woted.
I mean ALL of us.

The day we all start voting for the things we want, for people who think like we do, will be the day that the government begins acting like a representative republic once again!


I personally vote every chance I get. If I honestly thought that there was no way that things would ever change, I would have given up a long long time ago. I mean seriously folks, it takes 5 minutes out of your day. There is likely to be a polling place near where you live. As in right down the street or the next one over.

Get involved in local politics. Elect sensible people to local government. THEY are the ones who generally move on to state and federal politics. IF we elect them. If WE Elect THEM.

Cant get very far in a republic if you dont vote.

just my .02
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:21:42 PM EDT
If the left in our nation has it way then the answer is yes, they can.
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