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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 5/23/2005 10:14:48 AM EST
Trucker in Custody After Hour-long Chase Over Three Wisconsin Counties



MARSHFIELD, Wis. (AP) -- A semi-trailer driver who smashed police cars during an hourlong chase over three counties was being held in Marathon County on the weekend.

Rob A. Collins, 33, was being held pending charges expected Monday that include fleeing an officer.

Collins raced away from an attempted traffic stop near Medford on Saturday morning apparently because he was wanted on an outstanding felony warrant for attempted sexual assault of a child under 16 in Eau Claire County, according to the Medford Police Department.


The chase ended outside Marshfield after police used spikes to puncture the truck's tires and then shot into the driver's side of the cab and radiator.


Police decided to use deadly force because he had proven to be a threat by destroying a Marathon County Sheriff's Department car, among other actions, said Marshfield Police Sgt. Mark Berres.

''We needed to stop the vehicle before he did any other damage,'' he said. ''We felt that was the only way we could have stopped the truck.''

New semitrailers are designed to automatically shut down when radiator fluid levels drop, he said.

Collins suffered minor injuries to his hands and face from broken glass. No one else was injured in the incident.

Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:20:07 AM EST
Do what you have to do to stop an 80,000lb vehicle.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:24:15 AM EST
Sounds like a 12ga. with slugs was in order........
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:30:10 AM EST
How is the dog?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:41:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


New semitrailers are designed to automatically shut down when radiator fluid levels drop




Now that's interesting, just one manufacturer or all of them?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:44:10 AM EST
80,000 pound semi guided missle and the police got it stopped before the driver killed anyone/himself? Thats skill.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:44:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZMAN-1:
Sounds like a 12ga. with slugs RPG was in order........

Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:48:13 AM EST
Lemme be the first to offer a huge FUCK YOU to the fine officer who let this shit out of his pie hole...


''We needed to stop the vehicle before he did any other damage,'' he said. ''We felt that was the only way we could have stopped the truck.''



Since when is it ok to use deadly force IN WISCONSIN, against the operator of a motor vehicle to prevent property damage?

ANSWER? IT ISN'T FUCKING LEGAL!!!

Now, had he articulated, uh... in ENGLISH, that the driver was a serious threat to the safety of the officers and the public, that would be different. YES, it's semantics... but that's what makes the world go round!

Was the squad he hit occupied? That's a big difference...

RE: Trucks shutting down when low on coolant... Yeah, modern trucks have a safety shutdown. You can override the shutdown by filling the resivoir with any liquid you happen to have handy
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:50:18 AM EST
That's not the way Smokey and The Bandit ended.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:54:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
Lemme be the first to offer a huge FUCK YOU to the fine officer who let this shit out of his pie hole...


''We needed to stop the vehicle before he did any other damage,'' he said. ''We felt that was the only way we could have stopped the truck.''



Since when is it ok to use deadly force IN WISCONSIN, against the operator of a motor vehicle to prevent property damage?

ANSWER? IT ISN'T FUCKING LEGAL!!!

Now, had he articulated, uh... in ENGLISH, that the driver was a serious threat to the safety of the officers and the public, that would be different. YES, it's semantics... but that's what makes the world go round!

Was the squad he hit occupied? That's a big difference...

RE: Trucks shutting down when low on coolant... Yeah, modern trucks have a safety shutdown. You can override the shutdown by filling the resivoir with any liquid you happen to have handy



What if that was your daughter he raped or molested? What if he was barreling down the interstate and rammed you in your vehicle? Just a different way to look at it.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:56:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 10:59:53 AM EST by nationwide]

Originally Posted By rcoers:

What if that was your daughter he raped or molested? What if he was barreling down the interstate and rammed you in your vehicle? Just a different way to look at it.



You can look at it 23 different ways till Sunday. Either deadly force is justified, or it is not. Based strictly on what info I read in this thread, it was most certainly NOT justified. The argument could be made that firing into the radiator to stop the truck is not deadly force. However, firing into the driver's door and cab???



Collins suffered minor injuries to his hands and face from broken glass.
No one else was injured in the incident.



Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:59:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By rcoers:

What if that was your daughter he raped or molested? What if he was barreling down the interstate and rammed you in your vehicle? Just a different way to look at it.



You can look at it 23 different ways till Sunday. Either deadly force is justified, or it is not. Based strictly on what info I read in this thread, it was most certainly NOT justified. The argument could be made that firing into the radiator to stop the truck is not deadly force. However, firing into the driver's door and cab???



True. It's hard to judge what really happened based on officers' statements - often these guys aren't the best in articulating the seriousness (or lack thereof) of situation like this. I guess I tend to believe more of what the officer say happened in the situation, then a wanted child molestor. But that's just me, doesn't mean I'm right.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:00:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:


New semitrailers are designed to automatically shut down when radiator fluid levels drop




Now that's interesting, just one manufacturer or all of them?

]

When I was driving buses I drove one to the shop that I had to keep filling up every 50 miles or so as the water level dropped below a certain level. Was an Eagle 10 with some kind of Detroit Diesel. Probably would be more of a feature going with the engine than a manufacturer.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:02:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By rcoers:

True. It's hard to judge what really happened based on officers' statements - often these guys aren't the best in articulating the seriousness (or lack thereof) of situation like this. I guess I tend to believe more of what the officer say happened in the situation, then a wanted child molestor. But that's just me, doesn't mean I'm right.



In order to obtain my WI LEO certification, I was required to take a 40 hour course in report writing. This is addition to the various English and composition classes I took in college to satisfy the 60 credit requirement, in place since 01/01/1994
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:05:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 11:07:09 AM EST by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By R-32:
How is the dog?



Must have been a Mack truck

Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:06:31 AM EST
You may shoot a fleeing felon who poses a continuing danger to the public. Is attempot rape of a child a felony? if allowed to escape will he rape again? Is evading a felony? Is his evading a danger to everyone on the road with him?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:09:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
You may shoot a fleeing felon who poses a continuing danger to the public. Is attempot rape of a child a felony? if allowed to escape will he rape again? Is evading a felony? Is his evading a danger to everyone on the road with him?



The officer stated they shot up the truck to prevent further property damage though.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:27:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 11:27:53 AM EST by bubba99]
delete
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:28:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 11:32:58 AM EST by OLY-M4gery]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
You may shoot a fleeing felon who poses a continuing danger to the public. Is attempot rape of a child a felony? if allowed to escape will he rape again? Is evading a felony? Is his evading a danger to everyone on the road with him?



The officer stated they shot up the truck to prevent further property damage though.



Police decided to use deadly force because he had proven to be a threat by destroying a Marathon County Sheriff's Department car, among other actions, said Marshfield Police Sgt. Mark Berres.

''We needed to stop the vehicle before he did any other damage,'' he said. ''We felt that was the only way we could have stopped the truck.''


They say "damage" (they don't say PROPERTY damage) they also say he hit a police car, it doesn't say where the officer that belonged in that car was.

Very simply, what every anti-chase person in the world says "chases are dangerous". If chases are dangerous, IMHO the police should have a plan to stop them. That means either disengage or escalate until the pursuit is terminated.

Sexual assualt warrant, seems fairly serious. Not a person you would neccesarily let run w/o attempting to catch him.

80,000 pound vehicle used in a pursuit, also seems very dangerous.

Hitting police cars, possibly with officers in them............. if there were officers close to or in the vehicles, that is deadly force.

If you use deadly force against the police..........................
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:30:24 AM EST
Nationwide is right. The cops should have done a better job articulating their justification for shooting into the cab. This will only come back to haunt them.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:32:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
Lemme be the first to offer a huge FUCK YOU to the fine officer who let this shit out of his pie hole...


''We needed to stop the vehicle before he did any other damage,'' he said. ''We felt that was the only way we could have stopped the truck.''



Since when is it ok to use deadly force IN WISCONSIN, against the operator of a motor vehicle to prevent property damage?

ANSWER? IT ISN'T FUCKING LEGAL!!!

Now, had he articulated, uh... in ENGLISH, that the driver was a serious threat to the safety of the officers and the public, that would be different. YES, it's semantics... but that's what makes the world go round!

Was the squad he hit occupied? That's a big difference...

RE: Trucks shutting down when low on coolant... Yeah, modern trucks have a safety shutdown. You can override the shutdown by filling the resivoir with any liquid you happen to have handy



I'd have to agree that quote is not the greatest. Either the officer who said it was not thinking, or it was misquoted by the media.

That being said, I would have shot him too.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:34:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Very simply, what every anti-chase person in the world says "chases are dangerous". If chases are dangerous, IMHO the police should have a plan to stop them. That means either disengage or escalate until the pursuit is terminated.

Sexual assualt warrant, seems fairly serious. Not a person you would neccesarily let run w/o attempting to catch him.

80,000 pound vehicle used in a pursuit, also seems very dangerous.

Hitting police cars, possibly with officers in them............. if there were officers close to or in the vehicles, that is deadly force.

If you use deadly force against the police..........................



I believe we are in agreement. It is obvious, we don't know all the facts in this case. However, not knowing all the facts doesn't keep people of all lines of work from making poor decisions.

And that's what firing into the cab was.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:35:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By LPDtactical:

I'd have to agree that quote is not the greatest. Either the officer who said it was not thinking, or it was misquoted by the media.

That being said, I would have shot him too.



I am not familiar with the laws on deadly force in OH. Can you use it to stop property damage? In Texas, yall can
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:44:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 11:47:59 AM EST by OLY-M4gery]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Nationwide is right. The cops should have done a better job articulating their justification for shooting into the cab. This will only come back to haunt them.



Hello,

About 1 week ago, there was a fight at a local banquet hall. It was reported, 24 people involved in a fight, from a wedding reception, on the upstairs level and outside.

When the first officer gets there, lo and behold, there is a large scale donnybrook occurring. One might say a brouhaha, a ruckus, or an afray, depending on your vocabulary.

The officer goes to break up a fight near him where one person is getting beat pretty good, by a second person. When he goes to pull that guy off, his radio is torn from his belt, DESTORYED, and he is attacked by 2 people that are using his own radio as a weapon, against him. Everyone in that area got some OC and the attack stopped.

The original suspect, and his parents were arrested.

________________________________________________________________________

How was ir reported?

23 year old arrested for Battery and DC, along with his parents that were trying to help him, for Battery to Law Enforcement.

_________________________________________________________________________

Why do I wonder about the accuracy of quotes or descriptions printed or broadcast?

Also the police are supposed to be gathering evidence, taking statments etc to present in Court. Not trying cases in the media.

I see people making their comments on Court House steps, which often have no basis in fact, and I think it is one of the basest perversions of the Freedom of Speech vs Fair Trial.

I don't want the police becoming a part of that.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:46:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By LPDtactical:

I'd have to agree that quote is not the greatest. Either the officer who said it was not thinking, or it was misquoted by the media.

That being said, I would have shot him too.



I am not familiar with the laws on deadly force in OH. Can you use it to stop property damage? In Texas, yall can



No, you can't use it to stop property damage here. I'm guessing with the lack of facts given here, it was not used to stop property damage in this case either. It's a shitty quote and either the officer who made if is a tool, or the media left half his quote out.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:48:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Very simply, what every anti-chase person in the world says "chases are dangerous". If chases are dangerous, IMHO the police should have a plan to stop them. That means either disengage or escalate until the pursuit is terminated.

Sexual assualt warrant, seems fairly serious. Not a person you would neccesarily let run w/o attempting to catch him.

80,000 pound vehicle used in a pursuit, also seems very dangerous.

Hitting police cars, possibly with officers in them............. if there were officers close to or in the vehicles, that is deadly force.

If you use deadly force against the police..........................



I believe we are in agreement. It is obvious, we don't know all the facts in this case. However, not knowing all the facts doesn't keep people of all lines of work from making poor decisions.

And that's what firing into the cab was.



I'm sorry I don't see it. A man using an 18 wheeler to flee from police on a felony warrent for child rape while smashing cars with unknown occupants is a god damn poster child for when it's time to shoot the driver IMO. His very actions were a threat to public. Or was he driving Miss Daisy and obeying all common sense rules of the road?

Since were talking about quotes here:
"smashed police cars during an hourlong chase over three counties"
Police decided to use deadly force because he had proven to be a threat by destroying a Marathon County Sheriff's Department car, among other actions"

Maybe the other actions were endangering the rest of the public by running in a big rig.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:49:32 AM EST
I can't disagree that the truck and driver should have been stopped, but was it a good idea to risk having an 80,000 pound truck moving at speed with a dead or disabled driver?
I think the possibility of further damage would increase considerably if nobody is driving.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:53:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
I can't disagree that the truck and driver should have been stopped, but was it a good idea to risk having an 80,000 pound truck moving at speed with a dead or disabled driver?
I think the possibility of further damage would increase considerably if nobody is driving.



I think that depends on the speed of the vehicle, the area where it occurs, whether or not other traffic is nearby, among just a few of the considerations.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 11:57:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Grunteled:


Since were talking about quotes here:
"smashed police cars during an hourlong chase over three counties"
Police decided to use deadly force because he had proven to be a threat by destroying a Marathon County Sheriff's Department car, among other actions"

Maybe the other actions were endangering the rest of the public by running in a big rig.



If the other actions were actionable, then you would think they would be stated in a more vigorous fashion than they were.

These officers are obviously in need of remedial training in both the English language and firearms use.

Hell, they shot at him and MISSED??? If you are gonna do it, for crying out loud DO IT!!!
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 12:05:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
...Hell, they shot at him and MISSED??? If you are gonna do it, for crying out loud DO IT!!!



Sounds like they hit just fine as the driver was treated for injuries from the flying glass.

I'm sure every LEO is trained on how his bullet will perform after striking auto glass, especially when firing at an extream angle and when the vehicle is moving... That comes right after their 40 round qualification course right?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 12:42:06 PM EST

an outstanding felony warrant for attempted sexual assault of a child under 16

Given that fact, I can't blame any man for going a little farther than the law allows to stop the person.z
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 12:55:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
...Hell, they shot at him and MISSED??? If you are gonna do it, for crying out loud DO IT!!!



Sounds like they hit just fine as the driver was treated for injuries from the flying glass.

I'm sure every LEO is trained on how his bullet will perform after striking auto glass, especially when firing at an extream angle and when the vehicle is moving... That comes right after their 40 round qualification course right?



Ahh, no, not here anyway.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 1:08:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 1:16:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By rcoers:

What if that was your daughter he raped or molested? What if he was barreling down the interstate and rammed you in your vehicle? Just a different way to look at it.



You can look at it 23 different ways till Sunday. Either deadly force is justified, or it is not. Based strictly on what info I read in this thread, it was most certainly NOT justified. The argument could be made that firing into the radiator to stop the truck is not deadly force. However, firing into the driver's door and cab???



Collins suffered minor injuries to his hands and face from broken glass.
No one else was injured in the incident.






yeah thats a damn shame they didn't kill him.....
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