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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:44:05 PM EDT
[#1]
I think I saw a news story like this. Cops run through an open door, chasing a 'suspect' they say. Come across a room that just happens to contain a bunch of guns. Voila, guns are taken in by the police. Don't believe he ever got them back.
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:44:52 PM EDT
[#2]
This could be very interesting. If I had done nothing wrong, in my own home, no way they would have taken any of my property. Espically a gun that I could defend myself with against thier criminal. Sue their cowardly ass off....fullclip
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:48:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Why did you let them take your gun?
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:50:37 PM EDT
[#4]
I'll second that. Why in the Hell did you let them take your gun???
ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:52:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Jeez... you'd think that they would consider you an asset to their problems. And I hate to stereotype stuff, but hell, that's CA for you. Not that it couldn't happen anywhere.
I hope you get your gun back. ARnSC |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:52:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I'll second that. Why in the Hell did you let them take your gun??? ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." Let the bravado begin... [;)] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 5:54:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Why did you let them take your gun? Not to interrogate you, but I too would like to know why you let them take it. This is a little scary...they actually confiscated your rifle. Did they give you some kind of a reason for taking from you? Did they give you some form of receipt for proof that they have possession of your rifle? |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:01:39 PM EDT
[#8]
You should have blasted them!
[shotgun] [sniper] Quoted: They have my rifle! details in a few. Seriously though, I'm sure there is more to the story, so let's stop the acusations until we get more info. I wouldn't want to give up my gun, but in the end, what do you do? Shootouts with the police go on your permanent record. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:05:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I cant wait to see how this one plays out!
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:07:11 PM EDT
[#10]
of course, with the camo it was probably considered a high powered sniper rifle. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:11:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: I'll second that. Why in the Hell did you let them take your gun??? ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." Let the bravado begin... [;)] Sorry, no bravado intended. Just extremely curious. [:D] ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:11:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: of course, with the camo it was probably considered a high powered sniper rifle. You should have just thrown it into the lawn, and yelled: "there you go suckers! Try and find it now!" |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:14:48 PM EDT
[#13]
My guess is that the cops were thinking that they were protecting you from a mistaken identity situation. If they gave you a receipt go to the police department in the morning and ask for your rifle back. If they give you any difficulty politely ask to speak with the chief of Police or highest ranking officer on duty. If that does not work contact a lawyer and follow the legal process. It is never appropriate to argue with a cop in fresh persuit of a wanted criminal. There is a time and place for that and I would imagine that most departments would appologize for the inconvenience and return your hunting rifle.
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:16:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: of course, with the camo it was probably considered a high powered sniper rifle. You should have just thrown it into the lawn, and yelled: "there you go suckers! Try and find it now!" lol |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:16:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: You should have just thrown it into the lawn, and yelled: "there you go suckers! Try and find it now!" LMAO! My wife is looking at me funny now. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#16]
OK. I have it back.
I was in the house when this started. The rifle had just been scrubbed and I was letting it soak while I had dinner. helo and cops (LAPD and Sheriffs) start looking all over my area, I secure the home and children and wait. Cops start with a loud speaker saying for this guy to surrender and put any weapons down, come out with your hands blah blah blah...... in english and spanish, over and over again. I will NOT jeapordize my childrens safety for any reason including letting someone take one rifle. I will not throw down over one rifle. Call me what you will, but thats a fact. They found it unattended and took it. They immediatly knocked on my back door and started with the questions, said they were going to keep the rifle in a car until the search was over and go back inside lock all your windows and doors, etc. I come back, get worried and quickly post this topic to vent and stick my head out the door and started talking to the cop about being able to protect my home and kids and needing my rifle and it`s my right and I`m a responsible gun owner belonging to many firearm entities, I go on about this for 1/2 hour and he relents and another cop comes over and gives a big speech and I checked out clean and heres your "SNIPER RIFLE". Of course many bowing and thank you`s and locked the door. There is still a helo around but the cops are down two blocks. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:30:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Pic too big, see link [url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WebShooters/files/WebShooters%20shoot%20pictures/Webshooters%20June%202%2C%202001/P6020123.jpg[/url] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:31:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: My guess is that the cops were thinking that they were protecting you from a mistaken identity situation. If they gave you a receipt go to the police department in the morning and ask for your rifle back. If they give you any difficulty politely ask to speak with the chief of Police or highest ranking officer on duty. If that does not work contact a lawyer and follow the legal process. It is never appropriate to argue with a cop in fresh persuit of a wanted criminal. There is a time and place for that and I would imagine that most departments would appologize for the inconvenience and return your hunting rifle. I tend to agree. In this situation, I think the best action would be to cooperate about letting them hold that particular rifle, lock down the house and gather the loved ones, and protect them with an AR15. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:45:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: OK. I have it back. I was in the house when this started. The rifle had just been scrubbed and I was letting it soak while I had dinner. helo and cops (LAPD and Sheriffs) start looking all over my area, I secure the home and children and wait. Cops start with a loud speaker saying for this guy to surrender and put any weapons down, come out with your hands blah blah blah...... in english and spanish, over and over again. I will NOT jeapordize my childrens safety for any reason including letting someone take one rifle. I will not throw down over one rifle. Call me what you will, but thats a fact. They found it unattended and took it. They immediatly knocked on my back door and started with the questions, said they were going to keep the rifle in a car until the search was over and go back inside lock all your windows and doors, etc. I come back, get worried and quickly post this topic to vent and stick my head out the door and started talking to the cop about being able to protect my home and kids and needing my rifle and it`s my right and I`m a responsible gun owner belonging to many firearm entities, I go on about this for 1/2 hour and he relents and another cop comes over and gives a big speech and I checked out clean and heres your "SNIPER RIFLE". Of course many bowing and thank you`s and locked the door. There is still a helo around but the cops are down two blocks. Only one gun and you left the garage door unlocked. Bad juju. Glad you got it back, tho. Jeff |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:48:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: of course, with the camo it was probably considered a high powered sniper rifle. You should have just thrown it into the lawn, and yelled: "there you go suckers! Try and find it now!" Is that a subtle hint that Rich needs to mow his lawn? |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:48:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Damn, Rick. That's some scary shiite.
I tried following your link to see the rifle in question, but I [i] still [/i] can't get into WebShooters. Was it the camo'd P700 you brought to the shoot back in June? Glad to hear you got it back. You did the right thing under the circumstances, bro'. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 6:53:19 PM EDT
[#22]
And why call it a "sniper rifle" instead of just a rifle? Sounds like a jerk to me.
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Posted: 9/26/2001 7:05:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Seems reasonable under the circumstances. I would take and secure an unattended firearm too, especially if there was a wanted criminal on the loose in the area.
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Posted: 9/26/2001 7:13:29 PM EDT
[#24]
I knew when I saw this topic, as I clicked on it, I thought, "This has got to be from somebody in California". (Or Massachusetts! :^) )
Sad, but true, esp. the story contained within. Coulda been worse- a lot worse. "sniper rifle", indeed.... what kind of bunker mentality does that guy have? Sounds like he needs an involuntary career change. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 7:17:33 PM EDT
[#25]
the link says i gotto be a member
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Posted: 9/26/2001 7:25:58 PM EDT
[#26]
That is a tough decision to make. I would like to say that I would tell them to get pumped when I have done nothing wrong and I am in my home, but with too many corrupt cops they'll end up shooting your ass as well and covering it up.
That really sucks. You have the same right to protect yourself from this criminal they are chasing and you shouldn't have to give it up. I would guess you have other weapons besides this one that you could use. So the logic of their request doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What if it just turns out that "CHEM-LAWN MAN" strikes again. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 8:52:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: what do you do? Shootouts with the police go on your permanent record. mine got taken off after putting up roadsigns picking up trash and washing firetrucks for a couple days. [:D] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 9:18:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Uh, is legal possession of a gun on your own property enough probable cause for the cops to sieze your property, run the ser# and check your records?
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Posted: 9/26/2001 9:22:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: ... say they want to hold it until this is over ... ... and I says, I says ...[b]fuckyou[/b] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 9:27:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I agree with Winston Wolf and Imbroglio !!!!
I also think that the LEO's do this because people like you allow them to. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 9:35:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Cops in your backyard and helos with big spot lights .. sounds like every other day in the old neighborhoods I used to live in 'the city of angels.'
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Posted: 9/26/2001 9:53:12 PM EDT
[#32]
I was ready to raise holy Hell and chastize the officer as well. That is until I read you simply walked off and left the gun unattended while you ate a leisurely dinner. Then you have the gall to tell them you are a responsible gun owner?!?! Christ. I'm sure they were very impressed with how responsibly you left the gun unattended for them to pick up......or the person they were chasing to pick up.....or some gang banger to come along and pick up....or some kid to pick up. You make all of us look bad.
You're probably are also the kind that would piss and moan if you went out and found that someone had stolen it and the police did nothing to find it. Momma should have taught you to put your freakin' toys away when you're done playing with them. How many of you would be defending him if some kid would have gotten it and killed themselves or another? So many of you preach about keeping all our guns locked up if we have kids at home but think nothing about someone leaving one tossed in a garage unattended. Could that be because there were police officers involved? |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:00:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I was ready to raise holy Hell and chastize the officer as well. That is until I read you simply walked off and left the gun unattended while you ate a leisurely dinner. Then you have the gall to tell them you are a responsible gun owner?!?! Christ. I'm sure they were very impressed with how responsibly you left the gun unattended for them to pick up......or the person they were chasing to pick up.....or some gang banger to come along and pick up....or some kid to pick up. You make all of us look bad. You're probably are also the kind that would piss and moan if you went out and found that someone had stolen it and the police did nothing to find it. Momma should have taught you to put your freakin' toys away when you're done playing with them. How many of you would be defending him if some kid would have gotten it and killed themselves or another? So many of you preach about keeping all our guns locked up if we have kids at home but think nothing about someone leaving one tossed in a garage unattended. Could that be because there were police officers involved? I feel so ashamed. Everyday I leave my car unattended, when some gang member could steal it and use it to commit unspeakable crimes. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:03:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I was ready to raise holy Hell and chastize the officer as well. That is until I read you simply walked off and left the gun unattended while you ate a leisurely dinner. Then you have the gall to tell them you are a responsible gun owner?!?! Christ. I'm sure they were very impressed with how responsibly you left the gun unattended for them to pick up......or the person they were chasing to pick up.....or some gang banger to come along and pick up....or some kid to pick up. You make all of us look bad. You're probably are also the kind that would piss and moan if you went out and found that someone had stolen it and the police did nothing to find it. Momma should have taught you to put your freakin' toys away when you're done playing with them. How many of you would be defending him if some kid would have gotten it and killed themselves or another? So many of you preach about keeping all our guns locked up if we have kids at home but think nothing about someone leaving one tossed in a garage unattended. Could that be because there were police officers involved? You are making some rather rash assumptions. I have met more reasonable BATF agents... |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:04:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Do you also leave your guns sitting around where someone can pick them up while your are not with them?
I doubt it. Don't make yourself look stupid by trying to compare the two. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:09:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Torf, what assumptions would that be? That he is an idiot?
By his own admission he left the gun unattended to dry while he went to eat dinner. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:11:28 PM EDT
[#37]
This is exactly why I tell my wife it's OK to use the kitchen table for dinner AND gun cleaning---simultaneously, if need be!!![flame]
[b][blue]BusMaster007[/blue][/b] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:16:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Torf, what assumptions would that be? That he is an idiot? By his own admission he left the gun unattended to dry while he went to eat dinner. No, that the gun was someplace that it could be reasonably expected to be found. If I set my rifle in the bedroom to cool after time at the range, then grab a sandwich from the fridge, am I an idiot too? What if I keep the thing in a gunrack like guns have been stored for centuries? Am I an idiot now? Do you know everybody's circumstances? |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:22:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Torf, the walls in my house are covered with guns. I'm one of the people that always argues that people are being alarmist about having to lock their guns up like they are going to take off on their own accord and attack the community.
But in this case, by all accounts, the officer(s) simply walked into the garage and picked the gun. I'm sure the officers did not force entry into the garage. I seriously doubt that they even had to open the door. No, I do not think that you are an idiot if you have guns hanging in racks in your home. But I'll bet when you leave your home you lock the door. Or is that making an assumption? |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:25:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Damn, I'm a little on the fence with this one.
On the one hand, officer searching for potentially dangerous suspect encounters unattended firearms and secures it to prevent use by the criminal. On the other hand, there was zero reason to run it unless he believed it "might" belong to suspect, which I doubt. But you guys gotta get off Rich's butt for not duking it out with 5-0. Rich would not have his gun back, he would be in jail and need a lawyer. He might win, but you never really win. If he had been in the garage with the gun and the police demanded it that is another matter. The officer should have told Rick they were chasing a suspect and secured his gun "for the moment." This is actually nice because it prevents the suspect from stealing/f*cking up the gun. The officer should have also informed him that it will be returned ASAP but they are busy at the moment. This later followed by a "thanks for understanding" if the officer is decent and possibly a "Hey this is nice, I gotta get one of these." |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:28:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Do you also leave your guns sitting around where someone can pick them up while your are not with them? I doubt it. Don't make yourself look stupid by trying to compare the two. I personally don't believe guns are evil, so I consider them on par with anything that can cause death or mayhem, such as cars, power tools, and lawn mowers. I often leave partially disassembled guns laying around while cleaning them to have dinner or go to the head. I suppose someone could kick in the front door and grab an AR while I'm taking a dump, but they'll probably get a bullet in their brain before they can fish all the parts of the bolt assembly out of the solvent. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:31:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Torf, the walls in my house are covered with guns. I'm one of the people that always argues that people are being alarmist about having to lock their guns up like they are going to take off on their own accord and attack the community. But in this case, by all accounts, the officer(s) simply walked into the garage and picked the gun. I'm sure the officers did not force entry into the garage. I seriously doubt that they even had to open the door. No, I do not think that you are an idiot if you have guns hanging in racks in your home. But I'll bet when you leave your home you lock the door. Or is that making an assumption? I have no quarrel with you. I disagree with hyper-gunlock-nuts too. I just think that we don't know all the facts here. The cop obviously trespassed to get the gun, and was conducting an illegal search of a person's home. I live in an area where you don't have to lock your doors all the time. Maybe this guy should have thought through that better because of where he lived, but I still don't think that a person should have to assume that his home and the things contained therein are not secure. Besides, if the gun was soaking, it would not be ready to fire, and there was probably no ammo at hand anyway. It is a blunt club at best. Give the guy a break! A cop could probably wander through anybody's house and find a gun. With or without forced entry. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:37:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Well enough Torf. But, just for the record, the officer was not tresspassing and did not conduct an illegal search.
We do agree on the issue of not having to lock guns away. I grew up with guns all over the house and survived. I raised my son with guns all over the house and he survived. I now have grandchildren all over my house with guns and I suspect they will survive as well.[;)] |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:43:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Well enough Torf. But, just for the record, the officer was not tresspassing and did not conduct an illegal search. We do agree on the issue of not having to lock guns away. I grew up with guns all over the house and survived. I raised my son with guns all over the house and he survived. I now have grandchildren all over my house with guns and I suspect they will survive as well.[;)] Is a Police officer allowed to rummage through private property and confiscate items without a warrent? None had been issued, and AFAanyoneKs, the bad guy wasn't even there. No further mention of him was made if I remember correctly. I just don't think that a police search should necessairly be expected by anyone at anytime. This seems to run counter to the notion of "No improper search and seizure". |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 10:56:41 PM EDT
[#45]
U all, should follow my example,the next time someone touches one of your guns,tell em' your gunna have to charge em' for "Touching Time".Me personally I charge by the hour,my guns are just that kool,others may want 2 charge by the sec. or min. (Imbroglio come to mind) depending on make,model,stickyness of hands,etc.
I've already saved up enough for a Beta-C mag...YEAHHH!,...to bad u can't buy them anymore...DOHHHH! [rolleyes] 007 {out} |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 11:04:49 PM EDT
[#46]
The officer in this case did not conduct a warrantless search in violation of the property owners 14th amendment rights because he was not searching the property in an attempt to gain evidence to be used against the property owner. Due process, as guaranteed by the 14th amendment to the home owner, was not violated because of the exigency of the search for a third party the officer was in pursuit of. There was no burden on the officer to establish probable cause to obtain a warrant in this case.
The home owners right to be secure from unlawful search and seizure were not violated because the officer did not deprive the person of their property for an extended period (it was returned immediately) and was not to be used as evidence against the owner. The property was not "seized" as would be defined by the fourth guaranteeing our rights to be free from illegal search and seizures. Had the officer also observed something illegal such as a controlled substance he could have seized it to be used as evidence. But chances are in that case if the evidence was to be used against the property owner it would not have been admissable in court even had it been in "plain view" once the officer entered the garage. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 11:08:07 PM EDT
[#47]
I once did a bedding job on a Savage 110 and it had to be left undisturbed while the epoxy set. Another time I refinished my 10/22 and a shotgun. In all of these cases the guns had to be left out in the open. If mr. offica decided to sieze the gun, thereby ruining the bedding or putting fingerprints into the uncured finish, I would raise holy hell.
I doubt there are many horizontal gun safes for such a procedure. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 11:39:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Enough of this shit!
You whining little bitches! If he had left his gun in an unlocked garage and some (insert child, thief, unstable mental case, jerk-off neighbor) had taken the gun and managed to fire off a round and kill someone each and every one of you whining pukes would be standing on the top of the nearest monitor and would let us all know how fucked up he was to leave his firearm in an unlocked unattended open to any swinging dick room free for the taking! And (Lord forbid) that the dirtbag that the cops were chasing didn't try to hid in there and see a firearm and use it to try and further his escape! Get real, anyone with the common sense that God gave a goat would never leave a firearm in an unattended unlocked room. And as far as the cops checking out the door and the garage, you guys would be bitching if the dirtbag HAD been in the garage and the cops didn't check it. Get over it, he fucked up by leaving his firearm in an unlocked unattended room that anyone had access to. |
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Posted: 9/26/2001 11:47:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Well, that about sums it up.
And y'all thought I was being......ummmm....harsh.[:D] |
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Posted: 9/27/2001 4:14:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Has it occurred to anybody here that the cop should have just said to him, "Hey, buddy- there's a nut case loose in your neighborhood- put your gun away!", and that should have been the end of it?
Instead, Robocop, pulling a ham-handed "err on the side of safety and caution" move, gets more people pissed at tha police, instead of getting more cooperative citizens on their side. Sheesh! AFAIK, CA does not yet have Massachusetts style trigger lock/safe storage laws. God forbid this happening in MA- he would have not only lost all his guns, but his gun licence as well, not to mention big fines, big lawyer fees, and possible jail time from a liberal anti-gun judge who "wants to set an example". |
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