Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/29/2004 10:04:53 AM EST
Here is my question Situation



A.) a cop pulls you over says I see a pistol magazine this gives me cause to believe there are weapons in the car. Searches finds a concealed pistol (without ccw). This would be a good search and arrest right?

B.) cop pulls you over says he smells drugs searches finds a concealed weapon (W/O permit)
would this be a good search he said he was looking for drugs but found a weapon?

C.) cop says he smells drugs gets a dog to sniff your car then they find weapon?

basically my question is if a cop is working on probable cause (which seems really easy to make up) can they shake you down and use the evidence they find against you even if it has nothing to do with what they claimed they were looking for??

I know a cop can pat you down for no reason (for their safety) but can they also search the passenger compartment of your car for the same reason?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:28:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 10:34:09 AM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By Mak762:
Here is my question Situation



A.) a cop pulls you over says I see a pistol magazine this gives me cause to believe there are weapons in the car. Searches finds a concealed pistol (without ccw). This would be a good search and arrest right?

B.) cop pulls you over says he smells drugs searches finds a concealed weapon (W/O permit)
would this be a good search he said he was looking for drugs but found a weapon?

C.) cop says he smells drugs gets a dog to sniff your car then they find weapon?

basically my question is if a cop is working on probable cause (which seems really easy to make up) can they shake you down and use the evidence they find against you even if it has nothing to do with what they claimed they were looking for??

I know a cop can pat you down for no reason (for their safety) but can they also search the passenger compartment of your car for the same reason?



a) Having a weapon in your car and no CCW, depending on how you have it stored and your local law, may not be illegal. IMO, the fact that you have a magazine in your car does not give rise to probable cause to believe that you are committing, have committed or are avout to commit a crime though that analysis might change if say, you are a known felon.

eta: example: In Illinois, we have no CCW statute and CCW is illegal. However, I can transport firearm in my car so long as it is "unloaded and in a case" and I have my valid FOID card in my possession. In fact, under that particular provision of IL law, the weapon is almost assuredly "concealed" (in a case).

b) The fact that he was searching for drugs and found an illegal weapon does not invalidate the search so long as it was legal at its inception. The legal issue is whether the search is justified, not whether they found exactly what they were looking for during the search.

c) Same thing with c

No, they cannot pat you down for no reason...they must have some "reason to believe" that you might be armed which is not to say there must be proof, just some reasonable suspicion that need not rise to the level of probable cause on its own.

I haven't researched the passenger compartment issue recently but I believe that they can make a search of a passenger compartment based on the same suspicion that justifies a pat-down. Inaccessible areas such as a locked trunk require a minimum of either consent or probable cause. Remember that these are Constitutional minimums and that individual States are free to impose greater burdens upon police. Please remember that laws vary drastically from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:31:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 10:32:53 AM EST by KravMaga]

Originally Posted By Mak762:
Here is my question Situation

A.) a cop pulls you over says I see a pistol magazine this gives me cause to believe there are weapons in the car. Searches finds a concealed pistol (without ccw). This would be a good search and arrest right?

B.) cop pulls you over says he smells drugs searches finds a concealed weapon (W/O permit)
would this be a good search he said he was looking for drugs but found a weapon?

C.) cop says he smells drugs gets a dog to sniff your car then they find weapon?

basically my question is if a cop is working on probable cause (which seems really easy to make up) can they shake you down and use the evidence they find against you even if it has nothing to do with what they claimed they were looking for??

I know a cop can pat you down for no reason (for their safety) but can they also search the passenger compartment of your car for the same reason?




A) A pistol magazine in and of itself may or may not constitute probable cause. A loaded magazine isn't illegal (unlike items which are associated with controlled substances). The fact that the loaded magazine isn't illegal (unless prohibited to possess ammunition), I think the associated factors would be very important and would make the determination if a search would be valid.

B) This would be a good search. Cop smells Marijuana and marijuana is illegal. Cop performs search, located another illegal item (gun), it would be a good search.

C) Still a good search.

D) Not unless there are extenuating circumstances. Normally on a traffic stop, an officer does not have the right to pull someone out of the car and perform a search. When you do that, you bring up the question of pretext stops. Of course, things like being on probation, parole, intoxication, all come into account.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:37:29 AM EST
Remember that "pretext" stops are still good stops so long as the pretext is legit. In other words, Joe Crack Dealer gets stopped for a turn signal violation or obstructing view for having an air freshener on the mirror while everyone else in traffic gets a pass...why? because officers are cracking down on air fresheners and the pox upon society that they are? No, because they know Joe Crack Dealer is up to no good and they just need to get a foot in the door, PC ticket.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:09:30 AM EST
Remember (AS USUAL) that the laws of arrest, search and seizure are NOT I repeat NOT uniform among the statess. Although similar there can be times when the same circumstance is legal in one state and illegal in others and this can be due to State differences and differences between decisions at the Federal Circus Court of Appeals level.

It always helps to identify the State so hopefully the advice or opion you get is from or valid for the state desired. Otherwise you get the armchair guessers throwing BS based on their local vieww and not valid law.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:20:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 11:21:21 AM EST by mayday]
Follow my advise...as soon as you are stopped. Leap out of the car, lock the door behind you and start tell the LEO that he "has no permission to look under the seat for the illegal gun stashed there."

...it works every time.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:31:28 AM EST
A, B, & C are legal searches. As far as the car, they can search anywhere you can reach in the car from where you are sitting. That means the whole inside of the car. They can not search locked containers inside the vehicle.

The best advice is keep your illegal weapons and narcotics in the trunk if you must carry that stuff around and never agree to a search no matter what. Your luck will run out at some point though.

Remember, to a cop anyone out after midnight is probably DUI, esp a group of guys or a lone male. A guy with a girl, not as much. If you must carry contaband, get off the street by midnight. Find a bar close to home if you like to drink.

Better yet be rubbing some sweet thing's back around midnight.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:42:12 AM EST
Having a magazine, holster, box of ammo, or other firearm "paraphernalia" in plain veiw would give reasonable suspicion of a weapon in the car. This would allow a terry frisk of the vehicle, which is not a search under the 4th. Anything found during that terry frisk would be admissable, provided the cop did not look inisde closed containers too small to hold a weapon, or the trunk.


If you are using "plain smell" as your reason to search you better find what you smelled. a cop sayig he smelled marijuana, searched foir marijuna, but found cocaine and no marijuana is not going to make it through a supression hearing.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:44:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mak762:

I know a cop can pat you down for no reason (for their safety) but can they also search the passenger compartment of your car for the same reason?



Not true. the cop must have articulable reasons for a terry frisk some of the things he may consider is location, time of night, clothing, furtive movements, evasive statements, gang indicia, deameanor of the subject, ect. but he must be able to explain why he did a terry frisk. BTW; although its not commonly done, you can "terry frisk" a car.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:46:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 11:50:34 AM EST by leo6223]
If this is a legite question then....Yes, they are all good searches....BUT.... There is a big BUT in all the scenarios you present. Too lengthy to get into but depending on the circumstances it could go either way. You can always "what if" a situation to death. You can do a "pat down" of areas in the drivers control...as long as you can articulate the same facts that would allow you to "pat down" their person. A pat down of a glove box would be nothing more than opening it up looking and closing it. You are not allowed to go ruffling through the junk and papers in it. Same with the seat. Look in the immediate area but not an extensive "flip and search" unless you have PC for the search.

I must admit though, this thread seems slightly "trollish"

Oh, and as far as Cops doing "what ever" they want.....No, they can't do that. But if you have a day on the streets and enough intelligence to articulate what you see and why it's suspicious then you can perform legal "pat downs" and "searches".
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:47:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rustygun:
Remember, to a cop anyone out after midnight is probably....




...picking up narcotics, dropping off narcotics, drunk, capering, or another cop on the way to work. <G>
Top Top