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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/2/2003 12:09:30 AM EDT
[url]http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2003/06/30/news/lake_county/e1cfa6f8d7cb7af786256d550015f526.txt[/url]
Biker dead after crash into cop car Times Staff Report MERRILLVILLE -- A motorcyclist was thrown through the air when he collided with a police car that witnesses say sped through a red light at U.S. 30 and Ind. 55 on Sunday night and didn't stop after hitting the man who died of his injuries. The motorcyclist was identified by the Lake County coroner's office as Anthony J. Jatiela, 28, of 6671 Monroe Court, Merrillville. He was taken to The Methodist Hospitals Southlake Campus where he died at 8:08 p.m. One witness described the scenario as two Merrillville police cars "drag racing" on U.S. 30.
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More at the link. Cops run red light without slowing down, with lights on but not the siren. I hope they charge the Cop with involuntary manslaughter same as they would any other motorist. But I doubt that will happen.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:29:08 AM EDT
Cop will walk scott free. Guaranteed! A while ago there was a cop who hit and killed another motorist near me. He admitted to breaking the speed limit to get back to the HQ because it was quitting time. No lights, no siren. He walked.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:36:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence: [url]http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2003/06/30/news/lake_county/e1cfa6f8d7cb7af786256d550015f526.txt[/url]
Biker dead after crash into cop car Times Staff Report MERRILLVILLE -- A motorcyclist was thrown through the air when he collided with a police car that witnesses say sped through a red light at U.S. 30 and Ind. 55 on Sunday night and didn't stop after hitting the man who died of his injuries. The motorcyclist was identified by the Lake County coroner's office as Anthony J. Jatiela, 28, of 6671 Monroe Court, Merrillville. He was taken to The Methodist Hospitals Southlake Campus where he died at 8:08 p.m. [red]One witness described the scenario as two Merrillville police cars "drag racing" on U.S. 30.[/red]
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More at the link. Cops run red light without slowing down, with lights on but not the siren. I hope they charge the Cop with involuntary manslaughter same as they would any other motorist. But I doubt that will happen.
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I ride a motorcycle and sometimes feel a litte safer when in traffic with a marked LEO. IMO, people are less likely to pull stupid moves in their cages if there is one around. Now I have this to think about when on the bike... wonderful.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:41:01 AM EDT
The regular citizen doesn't have a legitimate reason to go speeding thru the red light. What the hell do drag racing police cars look like? Driving side by side with engines at full throttle?
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:48:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: The regular citizen doesn't have a legitimate reason to go speeding thru the red light.
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Neither do police officers. Not in the way the cops did in this situation. I dont mind them running lights, as long as they do it in a responsible manner. These idiots simply floored it and ignored the light, dodging around (or in this case running over) anything in their way.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:58:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: The regular citizen doesn't have a legitimate reason to go speeding thru the red light.
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Neither do police officers. Not in the way the cops did in this situation. I dont mind them running lights, as long as they do it in a responsible manner. These idiots simply floored it and ignored the light, dodging around (or in this case running over) anything in their way.
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LEO's don't have a legitimate reason to go thru red lights? The article says they had their sirens/lights on. The witness says otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:08:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: The regular citizen doesn't have a legitimate reason to go speeding thru the red light.
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Neither do police officers. Not in the way the cops did in this situation. I dont mind them running lights, as long as they do it in a responsible manner. These idiots simply floored it and ignored the light, dodging around (or in this case running over) anything in their way.
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LEO's don't have a legitimate reason to go thru red lights? The article says they had their sirens/lights on. The witness says otherwise.
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Lets see, 'speeding through red lights' is [b]MUCH[/b] different than 'going through red lights'. Comprehend? I never said cops do not have the need to go through red lights, as matter fo fact I said the exact opposite. If they do it responsibly (I know it is a hard concept for some police officers to understand) it is no problem. But doing it the way these officers did needlessly endangers the rest of the world. Fuck, I have even seen stories where idiot police have done things like this and hit FIRE TRUCKS responding to fires. Just because your lights are on, and your siren is going (which I doubt since it seems every witness at the scene seemed to have commented that they were NOT on), doesnt mean that you get to needlessly endanger everyone else. Not when if you use your brain (police do still have brains I hope) and slow down a bit, look around, make sure the light is clear, and then proceed, you can do it much more safely.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:14:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 1:15:15 AM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By Silence:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: The regular citizen doesn't have a legitimate reason to go speeding thru the red light.
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Neither do police officers. Not in the way the cops did in this situation. I dont mind them running lights, as long as they do it in a responsible manner. These idiots simply floored it and ignored the light, dodging around (or in this case running over) anything in their way.
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LEO's don't have a legitimate reason to go thru red lights? The article says they had their sirens/lights on. The witness says otherwise.
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Lets see, 'speeding through red lights' is [b]MUCH[/b] different than 'going through red lights'. Comprehend? I never said cops do not have the need to go through red lights, as matter fo fact I said the exact opposite. If they do it responsibly (I know it is a hard concept for some police officers to understand) it is no problem. But doing it the way these officers did needlessly endangers the rest of the world. Fuck, I have even seen stories where idiot police have done things like this and hit FIRE TRUCKS responding to fires. Just because your lights are on, and your siren is going (which I doubt since it seems every witness at the scene seemed to have commented that they were NOT on), doesnt mean that you get to needlessly endanger everyone else. Not when if you use your brain (police do still have brains I hope) and slow down a bit, look around, make sure the light is clear, and then proceed, you can do it much more safely.
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Many witnesses eh? Why don't you count how many witnesses in the story [b]claimed their sirens weren't on[/b] and then post your findings here.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:16:47 AM EDT
ANOTHER dead motorcyclist + cop = riot, but only if the dead guy was black.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:19:33 AM EDT
Many witnesses? WTF did I say that? Please accquire the skill known as 'reading comprehension', it will aid you greatly.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:26:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence: Many witnesses? WTF did I say that? Please accquire the skill known as 'reading comprehension', it will aid you greatly.
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I don't know why you're getting so fired up over this. You waiting for the cops to show up and read this post or something? [b]Just because your lights are on, and your siren is going[red] (which I doubt since it seems every witness[/red] at the scene seemed to have commented that they were NOT on), [/b] Sure seems like you were inferring that there was more than one witness who commented on the siren not being on.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:47:47 AM EDT
At least the cop went home that night. It's really the motorcyclist's fault. If he had been wearing a helmet, this disaster would have been averted [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 2:49:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 2:59:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 5:08:56 AM EDT by Gunslinger808]
Yup, there's dirt bags in every line of work. Bad cops, Bad lawyers, Bad Firefighters,Doctors,Priest,Bank tellers, ect.... Bet you know of a couple in YOUR line of work. Having said that, What's your point? Am I supposed to defend these idiots that make all LEOs look bad, or what? Geez man give it a break. Personally I think they should be charged with vehicular manslaughter, or worse. Edited to add: IF it's true.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 3:30:45 AM EDT
Wait for more info. BTW, the effective range in traffic of a siren, when a car is at high speeds, is about 15 feet. Other cars travelling in the same or opposite direction as a cop car running with lights and siren will not hear the siren until the last few seconds, so they may well have been "running code" and nobody heard it. They still should have stopped at the light, though. My car's video system always recorded every "Code 3" run I made, and came on automatically when the lights came on. Lights and siren do not terminate one's responsibility to operate the vehicle safely. More cops die in car wrecks each year than are killed by criminals, and their accident rates are about four times that of the general public, although in most places, the actual rate of accidents per miles driven is LOWER than that of the general public. It is a function of the fact that they drive all the time, all day. Driver's training and re-training is as important as firearms training for cops.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 4:36:24 AM EDT
Well, hell yeah let's automatically assume the witnesses are totally correct and impartial. Have you ever been in police work? If you have then you'd know that eyewitness testimony is one of the most unreliable accounts because everyone sees something different. Geez...it doesn't matter if a cop was involved or not why don't you people hold your automatic guilt verdict unless you know all the facts. I don't know how many times I've seen motorcycle cops get killed because if idiotic driving by people who are not cops and they never get in any trouble or than a traffic ticket and a civil suit.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 4:53:18 AM EDT
'Round here its normal for the local yokals to go flying through intersections (signs and stop lights) with no lights, no sirens, or sometimes just lights. Complained once when one of the officers almost hit me, was flat out lied to "he was on a call, and you stupid #$$@$ don't have a clue whats going on" -- I know I was lied to because it was on my way to Wendy's for lunch, and after almost being hit, I watched the offending officer pull into the very same Wendy's to eat lunch with his buddies from the highway patrol. Fortunetely, it seems to be only two or three of the officers, and I know which ones they are, so I just plan on them doing something stupid for no reason whever I see them. Won't be too long until something like this happens around here. [:/]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 4:55:32 AM EDT
I see so much stupid shit like that I've lost count. Bugs the living hell out of me.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 5:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 5:44:36 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
In many places, emergency vehicles can do most of the things that fully lit up, siren on vehicles can do without all the equipment on. If they are responding to a serious incident, and it is reasonable to assume that the noise a siren makes could alert the person responsible for those bad acts to, give them a chance to escape, conceal evidence of the crime, do more killing before the cops get there, etc. The flip side is, that also in that same law is usaully something that says basically, no matter what the police must operate their motor vehicles with "due regard" for other vehicles, people, and property. It's very simple to ask "if there was a crash, involving a police officer driving an emergency vehicle, and the officer is at fault, was the officer using due regard, as REQUIRED"? Sounds like they were "hot dogging".
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:04:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:10:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:14:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 6:14:54 AM EDT by DScott]
It always amazes me that some people here constantly complain about the media's "left-wing" bias and piss-poor handling of gun issues, but are so quick to believe a story like this is the god's honest truth. Sure looks like someone has an axe to grind...
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:15:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 7:18:53 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
[red][i]Personal attack edited out following poster's failure to do so. Please obey the Conduct Code. --thebeekeeper1[/red][/i]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:33:30 AM EDT
I had an LEO run a stop sign while riding a motorcycle about 2 years ago. I was lucky that I have the forethought to know that ALL cars are out to kill motorcycle riders. AB
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:33:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 7:28:11 AM EDT by DScott]
Originally Posted By brokeeye:
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Somebody obviously needs a hug! [img]http://mrmom.amaonline.com/images/gif/importD17.gif[/img] (Notice: This post is SARCASM. Please note the SARCASM contained in the response to your comments. SARCASM is a form of humor. SARCASM is NOT meant to be taken literally. For further information about SARCASM, please click [url=http://www.askoxford.com/dictionary/sarcasm]this link[/url]. Thank you.)
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:36:02 AM EDT
ease up there killah... Irregardless of this particular 'case' I think everyone, myself included, is generalizing over the bigger picture, as conceived by people who are not LEO's.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:47:39 AM EDT
Well, when I was doing all my EMT training, we were told NOT to run red lights and full speed, and NOT to go more than 15mph over the speed limit otherwise you're opening the dept. and ambulance company to lawsuits resulting in any accidents. Even if these cops were runing lights and sirens, they can't just blaze through a stop sign, or light. They have to slow down and make sure everything is clear to proceed and that everyone is stopping or shit like this will happen. This officer might walk, but the guy on the motorcycle's family will have decent grounds for a lawsuit.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:15:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 7:17:50 AM EDT by liberty86]
From the article; [b]"One went in the turning lane to right and one went in the turning lane to the left. They didn't slow down at all ... . When they got into the intersection there was a [red]motorcycle going north and it ran right into the cop,[/red]" the man said. [/b] I'd like to know, how fast the M/C was going, I'd also like to know light conditions. The article says it was night. It was a shots fired call, so they were prolly running code 3, rather than 2. Even so, the M/C should have seen emergency lights at night. It sounds like the M/C hit the cop, not the cop hit the M/C.... It sounds like it was a good [s]shoot[/s], er, wreck....[:P] (on edit; Cops will prolly have some trouble explaining why they were rolling side by side...)
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:24:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jadams951: Geez...it doesn't matter if a cop was involved or not why don't you people hold your automatic guilt verdict unless you know all the facts.
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If it doesn't matter if the guy that ran the red light was a policeman, then he would be guilty, end of story. He ran the light, he hit the motorcyclist, he killed him. what is so hard to understand about that? Nowhere in the article does anyone debate these facts. It is debated whether sirens where on, but not much else.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:39:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: Many witnesses eh? Why don't you count how many witnesses in the story [b]claimed their sirens weren't on[/b] and then post your findings here.
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I can see a case made for two witnesses, but the article is hard to read and say there were (x) number of witnesses. One witness described... doesn't mention sirens A Merrillville man who asked not to be identified....says no sirens Ed Kurzeija, of Lansing...doesn't mention sirens, but he said something about drag racing, so he might be the "One witness described" listed first. then there is "retired policeman Ed Fitzgerald" who is hard to tell if he is a witness or a "prefessional commentator" listing it out like this, i would guess one person said no sirens. But I think the article is so poorly written it would be hard to say for sure.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 8:01:48 AM EDT
I was on my motorcycle on a divided road. I noticed evertime I started to pass this slow truck, he would swerve toward me. When we stopped at I light I asked him what his problem was. He said if I was going to pass him, he was going to run me off the road. I went to court on him. Told the judge prior to that day I had never seen him before, did not know him, and therefor had no reason to lie. His Honor found him guilty of reckless driving!
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 8:54:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:12:01 AM EDT
The very next line of the article, which the original poster edited out... "The officers were on their way to answer a call of shots having been fired, according to police." When on the way to some calls you run your lights, and lights only, as you go through the iontersection. You do not run lights & sirens to any call involving guns, becuase it broadcast your arrival to the suspect and draws fire.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:16:06 AM EDT
Selective editing? Surprise! Surprise!
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:57:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: Some of your guys responses are hilarious. Regardless of who saw what and did what, the motorcycle had the right away in the intersection. LEOs can go through a light but right away is not relinquished. As many of you have seen or done numerous times, the emergency vehicle will look before they leap. They didn't see him. This was a tragic accident resulting in a death and no more. The news story is bias and so are the witnesses which is typical after seeing such a terrible accident. To read anymore into this story is reading between the lines whether you are for or against the cops actions. Most likely the cops will get off legaly but live with a guilt for years. The accident victims family will settle a nice lawsuit with the government and have to live with their loss. There's no winners here just losers.
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Well said.
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