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Posted: 1/10/2003 12:59:55 PM EST
Associated Press Writer Friday, January 10, 2003; 11:22 AM NASHVILLE, Tenn. –– A traffic stop following erroneous reports of a robbery ended in heartbreak when the family dog bounded out of the car, his tail wagging, and was shot to death by police. Now, the dog's owner wants the police officers punished, and the officer who pulled the trigger says he's been getting death threats. "I don't ever want to see this happen to anybody else. That's why we can't let this go away," said James Smoak, who owned the 1½-year-old pit bull-boxer mix named Patton. Cookeville Police Officer Eric Hall, who shot the dog, said Thursday that people are misjudging him. "It's been very difficult, but a lot of people who've made comments don't know me," Hall said on WTVF-TV in Nashville. "It's kind of taken a life of its own where people are judging without knowing all the facts." Smoak, a seafood salesman from Saluda, N.C., said he has contacted attorneys about the New Year's Day shooting and plans legal action. He describes the family's ordeal as "a nightmare we can't wake up from," and says he will never forget having to load the dead dog into the car for the ride home. The incident began when Tennessee state troopers and Cookeville police stopped the Smoaks' green station wagon as they were returning from a vacation in Nashville. Another motorist had reported seeing money flying from the vehicle as it sped down Interstate 40, and authorities feared there had been a robbery. They later discovered that the money – about $445 – was fluttering from Smoak's wallet, which he had mistakenly left on the car roof after pumping gas. The patrol car videotape of the stop, released Wednesday by the Tennessee Highway Patrol, shows troopers ordering James and Pamela Smoak and their teenage son, Brandon, out of the car, and the three emerging with their hands up, getting on their knees and being handcuffed. Then Patton bounds out, his tail wagging, and races toward Hall. The video shows Hall stepping back, then firing his shotgun. Hall said he thought the dog was a pit bull and that he was about to attack him. "I noticed that it trained in right on me; the dog's coming right at me," he said. "I yelled at the dog as I was backing up. I screamed at it; it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner. It's unfortunate what happened after that." Hall, who said he has received death threats, was assigned to administrative duties pending an independent review. An internal police investigation found he didn't use excessive force. The Tennessee Highway Patrol also concluded its troopers had probable cause to conduct the stop, though officials were still trying to determine how the Smoaks were suspected in a robbery that never happened. Officers recovered most of the lost money, Smoak said, and officials later apologized, but he said the apologies rang hollow. "At the scene they told us they made a mistake and that we were free to go," Smoak said. "No one was moved to say they were sorry." "The dog was wagging his tail," he said. "It was completely trained." Hall said he felt terrible when he learned that the Smoaks were innocent but maintains he reacted appropriately. "With the knowledge I had at that time, I was so limited that I felt I did what I had to do," Hall said. [b]"If you could have felt what I felt after the whole incident was over," he said, "I thought, 'Oh, my goodness, how unfortunate for that family.'"[/b] © 2003 The Associated Press How unfortunate?? What the heck is that? You get hemmorhoids..thats unfortunate. You pull over a family for no reason, draw weapons, shoot their dog...put them through the scariest moments of their life. Thats acually traumatic!! Not unfortunate!!! ACLU is going to have a field day with this one...national attention and dead pet.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:04:10 PM EST
According to the family...the shooter and other officers were "laughing" after the dog was shot...
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:07:50 PM EST
Lemme ask a question..does pepper spray "work" on animals? Like the dog? Just curious what the OFFICIAL reaction should be to an attacking dog. "This one did'nt of course."
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:10:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:39:04 PM EST
[b]"I noticed that it trained in right on me; the dog's coming right at me," he said. "I yelled at the dog as I was backing up. I screamed at it; it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner. It's unfortunate what happened after that." [/b] He is a lying cocksucker. I saw the video. That is not what happened.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:53:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 1:55:11 PM EST by magnum_99]
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! @#%!*@#%^@!%'S!!! How unfortunate? How unfortunate the good citizens of TN have to pay your freaking salary you lying piece of garbage. "Admit it, your were laughing after you shot their dog weren't you?" (as the channel-locks grip tighter around his nuts). They didn't even apologize to those most unlucky travelers. Here's a tip, stay out of TN unless you want your dog vaporized by the redneck Authoritii. Why didn't they just bust out the car's taillights with their billy clubs and cite them for that too? Hell, the whole thing wouldn't have been an issue if they'd just planted a few ounces of pot in the car like I'd bet they usually do. Idiots.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:56:34 PM EST
I bet they're getting a lot of mail and phone calls.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 1:58:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2003 2:01:48 AM EST by Wildweasel]
Yes they make a product called HALT that is for dogs, very weak pepper spray. The officer could have just kicked the damn dog. I have raised almost 100 Dogs and there was NO sign that dog was going to attack. It just wanted to meet new "Friends" Poor trusting dog. (And us.)
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:04:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 2:12:47 PM EST by Bostonterrier97]
Here is the [url=http://www.tennessean.com/video/dogshooting0103/doglg.rm]full length video of the traffic stop[/url] up until just after Patton was murdered Incident Report: As I participated in the Felony Stop Assist of the Armed and Dangerous Smoak Family Assault Vehicle. It was my job to order the suspects out of the car. After orderering the Passengers out of the car and waiting until they complied with orders which would place them in a subdued position. I noticed that one of the vehicles passengers who apparently was hiding behind the back seat, jumped out of the car. And proceeded to lope on all fours towards me, with tail wagging. Alarmed at this unusual behavior from the suspect I ordered that it to "cease and desist" and to "stop, turn around and place forepaws behind head, and then roll over and play dead". The Suspect refused my repeated commands to "roll over and play dead and instead charged on all fours with wagging tail towards me". The animal ''singled me out from the other officers and charged toward our box of donuts growling in an hungry manner,'' It was at that moment that I backed up and fired my shotgun at the perp. Because of the unusual behavior exhibited by the suspect and his refusal to obey my commands, I believed that the suspect was under some sort of narcotic..perhaps a dog biscuit or two..and that my uniform was in imminent danger of getting paw prints on it. It was due to this combination of factors combined with the volitile situation that I made a split second judgement and discharged my weapon. My Heroic Actions insuring not only my safety but that of my fellow officers and our box of donuts as well. Officer Eric Hall Cookeville Police Department, TN
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:08:46 PM EST
I saw the video too, and I also have been arounds dogs since I was about 3 years old (sister is a Vet too). That dog's posture as he was exiting the car was not aggressive at all. He was wagging his tail just checking things out. Another thing - of you saw the video you would also notice that the dog exited the car, went away from the group (Politzi and family) then [b]circled[/b] back around toward the group. He did [b]not[/b] head [b]directly[/b] towards any police officer = non-aggressive. If that dog wanted a piece of someone he would have made a direct line to the nearest bad guy. The cop goofed, plain and simple. Way too much force involved all around. Did any of the people in the car appear even remotely aggressive. Um,... nope. [rolleyes] CMOS
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:27:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:33:39 PM EST
I'm buying body armor for my Lab puppy and drawing a big fucking red circle around that podunk town on my map.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:36:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:41:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Now that I think about it, the only dog that actually bit me drawing blood and requiring stitches was a Lab.
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You must be hiding something from us about yourself because they know good people from bad [BD]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:50:36 PM EST
it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner.
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And he defended himself. What is an officer supposed to do? Let himself be attacked by an animal? The officers had to cover the felony suspects, so putting away their weapons to pull-out mace, like some of you suggested, is not an option. I expect a lot of law-enforcement officers and I'm often very critical of them, but putting themselves in harm's way to keep from damaging someone's property is going over the line. At the scene, they didn't know there wasn't a robbery. They were given bad information. They can only act on what they know.z
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:57:31 PM EST
I just watched the video for the first time. All I can say is that the cop that shot the Dog was a real asshole and should be sterilized so he can't reproduce!
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 2:57:36 PM EST
i ride bicycle and train on public roads. roads on which i encounter lots of pissed off doggies that like to chase and bite cyclists. dunno why, but 'something' about a bike drives some dogs nutz. some folks say it's the frequency of noise generated by the spokes passing thru the air (inaudible to humans)...but i don't know 'why'...it just happens that dogs really seem attracted to attacking cyclists. all kinds of muts have tried to have campy for lunch. big dogs like rot's right down to those litte 'yap-yap' dogs that can't weigh 15 pounds soaking wet. anyway, i started racing in 1972. i've probably been chased/attacked by more dogs than the postman. sometimes i can out run them. sometimes not. i've been forced to dismount and defend myself with nothing more than a plastic frame pump and can of pepper spray (bought at a police supply store and made by smith & wesson). 9 times out of 10, just keeping my bicycle between the dog and me (using it as a barrier/shield) and yelling at the dog will get the dog to eventually turn and go away (i'm not all that intimidating. i probably just bored the damn things!). on those times that i've actually had to spray the dogs, they all turned tail and ran...or were so distracted by their newfound 'sensations' that i could easily get away. i missed the mark a few times...that stuff isn't as easy to aim as a gun, and the direction is easily affected by even light winds. even then, the scent of it seemed to affect the dog's behavior. since 1972, i've been tagged by cars several times...hard enough to break my back. i've crashed out hard in races and biffed it good while training. sometimes i think road rash is my middle name. i've even had a groundhog run out of the ditch, under my front wheel and take me down hard enough to break a bone in my hand. but NEVER in all those years of canine encounters was i bit by a mutly. the spray stuff worked pretty good imo.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:00:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 3:04:52 PM EST by SeaDweller]
Dude must have seen too many killer wabbits on Monty Python. [img]http://www.trollandtoad.com/images/products/pictures/RABBIT%20WITXK.jpg[/img] Yikes!!!! [img]http://store4.yimg.com/I/wickedcoolstuff_1721_26486027[/img]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:02:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner.
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And he defended himself. What is an officer supposed to do? Let himself be attacked by an animal? The officers had to cover the felony suspects, so putting away their weapons to pull-out mace, like some of you suggested, is not an option. I expect a lot of law-enforcement officers and I'm often very critical of them, but putting themselves in harm's way to keep from damaging someone's property is going over the line. At the scene, they didn't know there wasn't a robbery. They were given bad information. They can only act on what they know.z
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Did you see the video? That cop is lying through his teeth.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:31:02 PM EST
Here is to the Dog MURDERERS>> [img]http://www.inficad.com/~thurmunit/images/ThurmFinger.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 3:36:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:12:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:55:31 PM EST
I watched the Video..granted I wasn't in the Cop's shoes and didn't have a lot of adreline pumping through my heart..but it was very clear..the dog was SMALL, it CIRCLED around and waged its tail. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about Dogs knows from the Dog's behavior and body language that it wasn't going to attack. It was just going to run up and throw its front paws onto the cop and greet him. Some dogs do growl a little when they approach but aren't going to attack. The Cop was a little too willing to take the easy way out and use his shotgun. Sometimes I wonder if this cop would have shot a small puppy, if the puppy did the same thing. If a Cop is too quick on the trigger, he really shouldn't be a Police Officer but should be in the Military.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:03:41 PM EST
this has been on a few different shows today, including Good Morning America. Diana Sawyer has the family on and they showed the vid over and over. Its good that it hasnt just been swept under the rug.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:11:39 PM EST
If the dog had actually bit the cop, he would have been completely justified in shooting it. Maybe it's different state-to-state, but if a dog bites you here, you can order it destroyed. But that dog didn't do anything to the cop, and there's no way the cop's life was in danger, not with him holding a loaded shotgun and three other armed cops with their guns out behind him. If he has shown such poor judgement with deadly force, he really doesn't have any business being a cop. He's just lucky it was just a dog he offed. He should be sacked.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 5:15:59 PM EST
Ahhhhhhh...BOO-HOO !!!! Poor JBT piece of shit coward is just trying to get his ass out of trouble. Let the savage lawyers at him....UH OH !!! lookout Fife !!! here comes the legal system gonna crawl right up your ass and ruin your life. BWAHAHAHAWAWWAhahahahaaHAHAHAHAAA !!!!!!!! [shotgun][snoopy]
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:04:44 PM EST
If the dog had actually bit the cop, he would have been completely justified in shooting it.
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So you expect law-enforcement officers to [i]wait[/i] until they're bitten before taking action? Do you also expect them to wait until they are actually shot before shooting in self-defense?z
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:28:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
If the dog had actually bit the cop, he would have been completely justified in shooting it.
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So you expect law-enforcement officers to [i]wait[/i] until they're bitten before taking action? Do you also expect them to wait until they are actually shot before shooting in self-defense?z
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Common sense is what the public wants not Rambo wanna be cops. If he wants to shoot something so bad he should join the military and go "git ya some". Seems like a lot of younger police offices like to bully behind the badge-take the badge from them and they turn tail and run like girls. Protect and serve is a joke these days. The only thing I hate is that there are good police officers out there who are lumped in with this kind of person.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:37:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By zoom: So you expect law-enforcement officers to [i]wait[/i] until they're bitten before taking action? Do you also expect them to wait until they are actually shot before shooting in self-defense?z
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The whole thing was BAD! Some of you whiners aren't even qualified to carry a dog wardens lunch box! Not to mention what was done to that family because of a simple lost wallet.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 7:30:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner.
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And he defended himself. What is an officer supposed to do? Let himself be attacked by an animal? The officers had to cover the felony suspects, so putting away their weapons to pull-out mace, like some of you suggested, is not an option. I expect a lot of law-enforcement officers and I'm often very critical of them, but putting themselves in harm's way to keep from damaging someone's property is going over the line. At the scene, they didn't know there wasn't a robbery. They were given bad information. They can only act on what they know.z
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Well Z, get down on your knees tonight and pray to Jesus (or whomever you pray to) that the next cops that pull you over have "good" information lest you get a load of 00 buck. But rest assured if some idiot overbearing cop (and they do exist) "doesn't know their wasn't a robbery" (query: is this the new legal probable cause standard?) and shoots you, someone will post the same thing you did. You mean well with your comments, but miss the point IMHO. Cleophis
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 8:10:02 PM EST
OK, so they can only act on what they know.......I can dig that, but if they knew the dog was in the car, and was a POSSIBLE threat (which they clearly did), why didn't they act on that by closing the car door??? C'mon, folks, even a 5-year old could figure THAT out.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 8:24:18 PM EST
some idiot overbearing cop...shoots you, someone will post the same thing you did.
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Why the strawman argument? We were talking about a cop damaging someone's property. We weren't talking about a cop killing someone. Zardoz, good point. I posted that in the original thread, but of course, a moderator deleted it.z
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 8:50:38 PM EST
James Smoak was on the Alex Jones show yesterday and said that Patton (the dog) liked to play a game where they would point a flashlight on the ground and he would chase around the beam. Look at the video and that is EXACTLY what the dog was doing and why he didn't go after any of the other jbts.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 8:51:36 PM EST
I dont know really that it is DAMAGING someones property. Damaging mental health and well being of the children? Yes. So if I were to "damage" a police or narcotics animal would I be able to expect your defense on the grounds of damaging property? Could I expect the leniancy of the courts since it was not a human being I "Damaged"?
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 9:01:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 9:02:26 PM EST by 767fixer]
i see this so many ways: imagine if they had a small kid who was sleeping in back seat and came bounding out of car. dog was running toward right of screen away from cops when dog started yellping(i guess first shot, but i couldnt hear it) so much for identifying your target and intent. we are back to shoot first and ask questions later. if for some reason i was out shooting and ran into a k-9 unit would i be justified to shoot the dog because it "looked" threatening? cops have it rough, but this is rediculous. years back in are town in pa we called the local police about a stray dog..they showed up...shot it in front of us..i dont think ill ever forget it
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 12:07:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2003 12:08:41 AM EST by raven]
Originally Posted By zoom:
If the dog had actually bit the cop, he would have been completely justified in shooting it.
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So you expect law-enforcement officers to [i]wait[/i] until they're bitten before taking action? Do you also expect them to wait until they are actually shot before shooting in self-defense?z
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Of course not. I dont expect cops to wait to be shot before using deadly force. There's a good chance a single shot could kill a cop. Having to take down an armed suspect is a whole different league than taking down a dog that hasn't bitten you. In the case of the dog, yes. He should have waited to see if the dog was actually going to harm him. Because why should the law apply to me differently than a cop? A dog bite isn't going to be lethal, and no way was that cop's life in danger. He had a loaded shotgun. Three other cops with guns at the ready. I suppose maybe the dog could have had rabies [rolleyes] I've been armed when a guy's dog bit me as I passed by him walking on a bike path (happened 5 days ago, I was carrying because the neighborhood is lousy with moose and if one attacked me it could be bad news. It's legal to do so in Anchorage). I could tell the damn dog was playing. I could have killed it and legally have been in my rights, I was annoyed it wasn't on a leash, but come on. I'm not going to do that, kill someone's freaking dog because I could get away with it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 12:45:05 AM EST
Hey, call me stupid, but why didn't the cop just flip the scattergun around and whomp the dog in the snout with the buttstock if he was so scared of it? We aren't talking about an armed/big/mean/scary human non-complying subject here..........it's not like the frigging dog is gonna disarm him and shoot him with his own weapon. He could have knocked that dog into next week. Even if he just stood there, the dog may have been able to hurt him, but it wasn't going to kill him. Boy, I would love to sit in on some police training. Do they train to EVALUATE things (after all, every situation is different) is there training in critical thinking, or are cops now just programmed to respond to things in a programmed way, as in "If subject does THIS, then you do THAT? Was the cop actually supposed to use some imagination and evaluate the situation before firing? I would say there was a serious lack of mental acuity/judgement and initiative along with a complete lack of compassion....but training that consists of "programming" somebody to "react" to "X" by doing "Y" would do that. Perhaps the cop just plain wanted to kill something. Even though a domestic animal is regarded as simple personal property, the officer could have "stayed safe" without blowing the damn dog away in front of it's owner. IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 2:09:58 AM EST
Dog meet JBT's Boot end of conflict. hike that dog up a few inchs and it would have been a non-issue. Shotgun was way over the top. Dad was local police chief for 18+ years, one call out I was with him (small town years ago) And we where checking out a yard for fire, German shepard came up and bit him on the ass, (Hard) dad had his HP 9mm on the hip and all dad did wad kick the fucker as hard as he could. end of problem. He could have shot the sob, would have been justified, but he knew dogs and that he was in its territory.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 4:10:51 AM EST
The citizen enforcement agents [i]have a duty[/i] to leave the doors open, it's the victim's/suspect's responsibility to close their own door[s]! The agents [b]have to leave the doors open[/b] so they can more thoroughly execute a 'plain-view' search on your vehicle. See, when you're just getting a ticket there is no probable cause for a search of your vehicle. Close your doors and then the agents need a warrant, consent, or probable cause (like an arrest of you) to open them. However if you leave your doors open they can lean in or kneel inside and poke around with their batons, same with an open window. That being said, as an ordinary citizen I may have shot that dog too should it have been roaming my neighborhood unrestrained and come at me like that. Pits aren't nice dogs when their owners aren't around, ask any animal control person.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 4:31:54 AM EST
Regardless of your thoughts on the matter, the worst thing about this is that if these JBTs get away with this with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, it sets a precedent and reinforces this type of behavior.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 5:02:37 AM EST
I saw the video of the incident. Dog runs from car, cop already has gun out. Dog begins to approach, cop shoots dog almost immediately, without even attempting to diffuse the situation. The cop was saying he thought it was a full-sized pit bull.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 6:18:19 AM EST
Hey, call me stupid, but why didn't the cop just flip the scattergun around and whomp the dog in the snout with the buttstock if he was so scared of it?
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Good point. This is one of the reasons I'm a strong believer in bayonets. It gives the holder of the rifle (or shotgun) a nonlethal way of keeping someone at a distance. It's also easier to herd prisoners with a rifle with a bayonet. The concept of getting cut by a knife is something very easy to understand, even when upset, angry, on drugs, or drunk. With the number of cops that are killed with their own guns, adding a bayonet would ensure that less bad guys attempt to disarm a cop. While the dog would not have understood that the sharp edge would hurt it, the officer would have felt more comfortable with having a way of keeping the dog at a distance. He might not have pulled the trigger. I know bayonets aren't PC, but in my opinion, it's better than having to pull the trigger to keep someone from within arms-reach of your gun.z
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 6:25:04 AM EST
Bayonets are an AWFUL means of crowd/suspect control. In fact, they are a LETHAL alternative (it's knife, remember) that people try to use for non-lethal control (?). Think about it: If you are determined to kill your enemy (not just scare/prod them), then the bayonet is an extension of force you can use when you run out of bullets (or can't reload quickly enough). Go ahead and let the other guy try to grab it, cuz you're gonna kill him anyway. Now use that for crowd control. You poke your rifle at them. Not in swift, decisive strokes, but in slow, non-aggressive movements (non-lethal, remember). Perfect opportunity for someone to grab your rifle. I'd prefer crowd-control sticks, instead.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 6:33:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By DPeacher: [b]"I noticed that it trained in right on me; the dog's coming right at me," he said. "I yelled at the dog as I was backing up. I screamed at it; it kept advancing and barking in an aggressive manner. It's unfortunate what happened after that." [/b] He is a lying cocksucker. I saw the video. That is not what happened.
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NO NO SAY IT'S NOT SO A COP LYING GO WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH SOAP YOUNG MAN I say SUE THE EVER LIVING SHIT OUT OF EM!!!!FU%^#%$^G PRICK
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 6:44:32 AM EST
Two things are pissing me off about this ordeal. 1. What happened. 2. I still haven't seen the video. My computer won't play it and I keep missing it on the news.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:07:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:17:33 AM EST
[size=4]$$$$$$$$$$[/size=4] [shotgun][snoopy] [size=4]$$$$$$$$$$[/size=4] Bring on the savage flesh eating lawyers !!!!!! ASS RAPE this idiot, the department, city, county and state for every penny !!!! Call in PETA, ASPCA, humane society and every hollywood animal rights wacko to roll right into town and raise hell !!! BWAWAWAAHAHAWAWAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAHAHHHAAAAHH­AA !!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:32:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
If the dog had actually bit the cop, he would have been completely justified in shooting it.
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So you expect law-enforcement officers to [i]wait[/i] until they're bitten before taking action? Do you also expect them to wait until they are actually shot before shooting in self-defense?z
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Zoom, stop trying to defend this piece of shit, he fucked up and should not be a cop. The dog was NOT a threat, the family was covered, he shot when he should not have. If I had shot a dog for walking towards me, my ass would be in a shitload of trouble. Let it go.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:36:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2003 7:45:39 AM EST by superdav]
Originally Posted By shotar: What amazes me most about this whole thread and line of BS that I hear is that people seem to attribute human characteristics and value to the dog.
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you were never a kid who owned and loved a dog? you probably only have other cops for friends dont you?
Was it a bad scene all the way around, sure. But for those not in the know legally speaking a dog is no more human than a squirrel or spider or trout. It is a dog and under the law property. There will be a civil suit, and settlement. They were given [b]bad information but acted on what they knew.[/b]
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they sound poorly trained to me
My advise in this arena is to hire better educated cops. they should have PHDs in Animal and human psychology, medical school, law school, first rate tactical training, accounting degrees and should all come into the job with no less than 5 years experience in each field. I figure average salary for entry level would be about $250,000. ready for the 1000% tax increase to pay for it.
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you ever heard of ANIMAL CONTROL? if they were afraid of the dog they should have called A C or used pepper spray the VICTIMS repeatedly said they had a dog, the same victims who were ordered at gunpoint out of their car for reasons totally unknown to them who do not know the laws of a foreign state about closing doors and peeping tax collector wanna be cops get a freakin grip man! edited to say wanna be [cop] (singular) the highway patrol appeared to act in a professional manner even after dirty harry killed fido and the dog was a boxer mix about 25-30 pounds ooooooo! big scary dog!
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:37:40 AM EST
The dog's owners can clearly be heard asking the officers to shut the car door, so the dog wouldn't get out. If dogs are so scary, that you even have to shoot the waggy, happy ones... ...wouldn't closing the door have been prudent?
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 7:42:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: What amazes me most about this whole thread and line of BS that I hear is that people seem to attribute human characteristics and value to the dog. Was it a bad scene all the way around, sure. But for those not in the know legally speaking a dog is no more human than a squirrel or spider or trout. It is a dog and under the law property. There will be a civil suit, and settlement. They were given bad information but acted on what they knew. Do you assume that a strange dog is just playing as it approaches you? Of course not, cause you don't know. You don't know how it was trained, what its temperment is, you don't know jack about that animal. It is a dog. A family pet? Well we know that now, but what did the guy know that night when he was sent to intercept a vehicle he was told was involved in a robbery?? We don't have the dispatch tapes. This really seems like alot of workup over a mistake and a dog. My advise in this arena is to hire better educated cops. they should have PHDs in Animal and human psychology, medical school, law school, first rate tactical training, accounting degrees and should all come into the job with no less than 5 years experience in each field. I figure average salary for entry level would be about $250,000. ready for the 1000% tax increase to pay for it. This supposition of what if, what if what if is sort of cute in an academic sort of way. Its sorta like the crowd that says what if all AR owners nut up and start shooting at folks. Its basically noise. Facts are facts, the officers were sent to what they believed to be a dangerous situation, they reacted the way they were trained. They made a mistake in not securing the dog, but then again we all know that there are no dangerous pit bulls out there so the cop should have known it was only playing and should have used his degree in animal behavior and psychology that the taxpayers were willing to pay for. Fact is we are all great at second guessing anyone without knowing anything about the dog or the officers. I'm glad we are so full of experts. In the long run the facts will come out. Presented to a jury I'm sure and they will reach a verdict. Up to that point anyones meager opinion is simply speculation ad nauseum.
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Shotar no war here BUT The JBT IS A JBT IN THE REAL SENSE HE AND HE ALONE DEALT LEATHAL FORCE TO A NON LEATHAL SITUATION. PERIOD HE SHOULD BE FIRED; HE WAY OVER REACTED. He is to trigger happy to wear a badge. Flame away[BD][BD]
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