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Posted: 10/6/2007 9:48:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 9:48:40 PM EST by Phil_A_Steen]
What do you think? Was the pepper spray justified?

Link
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:50:15 PM EST
Dupe. The answer is absolutely, and probably should have been used sooner. If anything, the cop was too hesitant.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:50:27 PM EST
Im pretty sure if that would have been me I would have got the shit beat out of me so she was lucky.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:52:26 PM EST
Not excessive. And it worked.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:53:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 9:54:16 PM EST by jdessell]
I don't know why he had such a hard time strong-arming that adolescent monkey. I could've had that little bitch in cuffs within half the time it took him... without even having to pimp-arm her...
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:55:09 PM EST
He used too little force prior to the bite.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:55:47 PM EST
No, the amount of force used was proprtionate and reasonable

and as stated earlier..

dupe
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:56:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 9:57:38 PM EST by chips]

Originally Posted By jdessell:
I don't know why he had such a hard time strong-arming that adolescent monkey. I could've had that little bitch in cuffs within half the time it took him... without even having to pimp-arm her...
As has been said many times before, he wasn't trying to hurt her. At least not until she bit him.


I would've liked to have seen her get punched in the face more than once. What a spoiled little bitch.

ETA:



Who voted that he went over the line? I'd love to see their reasoning.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 9:59:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:00:47 PM EST
He should have took her off camera and shot her in the face. The stupid bitch is going to be a criminal the rest of her life, and wind up in prison.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:03:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:07:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By sasquatch98:
He should have took her off camera and shot her in the face. The stupid bitch is going to be a criminal the rest of her life, and wind up in prison.


Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:07:54 PM EST
He was way more kind then I would have been if someone tried to bite me.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:15:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:24:46 PM EST
Shoulda followed it up with a taser.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:27:09 PM EST
Justified
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:29:44 PM EST
Well it worked. She wasn't injured other than temporarily from the OC.

I'm not an officer but I would sprayed her earlier and hell he waited until she bit him.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:35:28 PM EST
Why was he dancing with her for nearly two minutes? Should have just tazed the shit out of her until she was compliant.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:36:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Why was he dancing with her for nearly two minutes? Should have just tazed the shit out of her until she was compliant.


he was applying the milk and cookies approach that many here advocate
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:49:42 PM EST
I vote yes only on the basis that apperently he wasnt able to gain compliance of a clearly weak suspect (in context). She continued to resist arrest and apperently he couldnt gain control of her right arm to cuff her. Given all alternatives, I believe that he was within his authority to deply his OC.

The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:52:26 PM EST
Looks like she got about what she deserved.


I still don't like corrupt cops though. The rest of 'em are fine, but they don't do nearly enough to get rid of the bad ones.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:52:41 PM EST
The original thread on this is here
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:58:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA:


Wow, someone needs a fucking hug.


Isn't that from the Johnny Fairplay playbook?
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 10:59:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2007 11:00:26 PM EST by RetroRevolver77]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Why was he dancing with her for nearly two minutes? Should have just tazed the shit out of her until she was compliant.


he was applying the milk and cookies approach that many here advocate



I'm against a cop shooting a pet on private property under questionable circumstances because I own animals- so to this end I would argue all damn night. However a non compliant drunk deserves what's coming to them. I was once a non compliant drunk back in college during a party. Suffice to say- the cops taught me well enough such that I will never act that way again.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 11:07:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 11:07:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By adirondack47:
I vote yes only on the basis that apperently he wasnt able to gain compliance of a clearly weak suspect (in context). She continued to resist arrest and apperently he couldnt gain control of her right arm to cuff her. Given all alternatives, I believe that he was within his authority to deply his OC.

The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....


I think not. I think he is justified in that punch to the face/head. It appeared that she bit him. I think a reasonable prudent person in a similar situation would have done the same.
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 11:16:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By adirondack47:


The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....
Why?

She was doing her absolute best to harm the officer. His goal is simple: take away any desire she has to resist and harm him. He had to remove one hand from her to deploy his OC spray. The punch stunned her enough to where he was able to do so.

How would OC spray be perfectly acceptable when a punch is not?


Should he simply allow her to do as she pleases with complete impunity?

Link Posted: 10/6/2007 11:22:02 PM EST
justified, punch and the spray

-Mike
Link Posted: 10/6/2007 11:34:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By adirondack47:
I vote yes only on the basis that apperently he wasnt able to gain compliance of a clearly weak suspect (in context). She continued to resist arrest and apperently he couldnt gain control of her right arm to cuff her. Given all alternatives, I believe that he was within his authority to deply his OC.

The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....


I think not. I think he is justified in that punch to the face/head. It appeared that she bit him. I think a reasonable prudent person in a similar situation would have done the same.


Cops are human too and when something bites you (dog, cat, snake, drunk bitch) you have a natural instinct to swing. Not only was it legal, it was a proper response to being bitten by an unknown and intoxicated suspect.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 12:48:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By sasquatch98:
He should have took her off camera and shot her in the face. The stupid bitch is going to be a criminal the rest of her life, and wind up in prison.



Wow, I'm glad you don't work in my department.


The use of force was justified. Taser would have worked also.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:29:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 1:29:47 AM EST by prk]
Where's Al Sharpton in all this?

I would not have been that patient and nice with her. So now he probably has to take antibiotics and get tested. Human bites are supposedly more prone to infection.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:49:36 AM EST
I think that He was perfectly justified in the ammount of force used.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:52:52 AM EST
I think the officer showed a lot of patience, I would have sprayed her much earlier.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:58:38 AM EST
As soon as you take it easy on somebody they pull a shiv or bite your ass. In this case it was a bite.

And once hands are on using spray is usually a bad idea.

I would have taken her to the ground after about a sec of struggle. In fact, I remember a situation pretty close to this. Small black female a fellow cop was struggling with. I pull up and run up and *BAM* I take her to the ground and fight is over.

Complaint filed: after review- no improper action.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 1:59:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 2:00:23 AM EST by cobra-ak]
They need to invent a gun that shoots a net that will immobilize a person where the cop can stand off from the detained, fighting with some retard is getting old and if people start resisting arrest, officer injuries are gonna cost big to depts.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:02:28 AM EST
The female is trying her best to resist arrest and then assaults the cop by biting him. The police officer was entirely justified in his actions.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 5:40:20 AM EST
He pussy footed around way too much trying to be Mr nice guy. After the 6th time asking her to stop fighting he should just have flolded her in half on the push bar, cuffed her then stuffed her.
She was so tiny I'm sure he was trying his best to not hurt her but that opened him up being cut or worse. I couldnt put up with it.....
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:14:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By chips:

Originally Posted By adirondack47:


The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....
Why?

She was doing her absolute best to harm the officer. His goal is simple: take away any desire she has to resist and harm him. He had to remove one hand from her to deploy his OC spray. The punch stunned her enough to where he was able to do so.

How would OC spray be perfectly acceptable when a punch is not?


Should he simply allow her to do as she pleases with complete impunity?



To this end why didnt he just draw his sidearm and shoot her? If we are placing the premium on taking her desire away to resist and potentially harm him why not usurp the entire continuum of deadly force protocol? Would a double tap to the abdomen or her pelvis not stun her enough for him to gain compliance?

Sound ridiculos? It should.

As we are all aware, hindsight is always 20/20. In my opinion, what he should have done is kick her legs out and put her on the ground. It would have been much easier to get a knee in the center of her back or a forearm in the neck area and then manipulate her arms from there. Last I checked most police academies in the United States teach grounded defensive and compliance tactics.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:17:55 AM EST
I'd have just smacked her face into the hood of the car.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
He used too little force prior to the bite.


What he said.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:31:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
He used too little force prior to the bite.


What he said.


Absolutely. He was trying so hard not to hurt her that he got bit for it. That bite snapped him out of it. Hopefully he learned from that: it could have been worse.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:32:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By jdessell:
I don't know why he had such a hard time strong-arming that adolescent monkey. I could've had that little bitch in cuffs within half the time it took him... without even having to pimp-arm her...


Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:33:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 7:34:16 AM EST by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
I'd have just smacked her face into the hood of the car.


+1. That, or boxed her ears. If you've never had that done to you, it removes all desire to do anything except remember your own name and the name of your home planet. Only drawback for the boxer (if he's policeman) is that iirc there is some risk of semipermanent hearing loss for the boxee.

The officer in that video is either a saint or a hardcore professional. As for Little Princess, there's one courtroom in this town where that little taste of cop flesh would be good for 5 years in prison, no questions asked.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:37:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By adirondack47:

Originally Posted By chips:

Originally Posted By adirondack47:


The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....
Why?

She was doing her absolute best to harm the officer. His goal is simple: take away any desire she has to resist and harm him. He had to remove one hand from her to deploy his OC spray. The punch stunned her enough to where he was able to do so.

How would OC spray be perfectly acceptable when a punch is not?


Should he simply allow her to do as she pleases with complete impunity?



To this end why didnt he just draw his sidearm and shoot her? If we are placing the premium on taking her desire away to resist and potentially harm him why not usurp the entire continuum of deadly force protocol? Would a double tap to the abdomen or her pelvis not stun her enough for him to gain compliance?

Sound ridiculos? It should.

As we are all aware, hindsight is always 20/20. In my opinion, what he should have done is kick her legs out and put her on the ground. It would have been much easier to get a knee in the center of her back or a forearm in the neck area and then manipulate her arms from there. Last I checked most police academies in the United States teach grounded defensive and compliance tactics.



He had no problems manipulating her arms. In fact, he could have broken her spindly little arms, had he desired to, but he probably remembered that she's a 15 year old girl that weighs a hundred pounds and decided against that, for as long as he could, anyway.

I'll bet that leaving her in sight of the video camera for as much of the struggle as possible will prove to be a very good idea. Lots smarter than taking her to the ground in front of the car where you might/might not see what happens.

I agree, though, that he used too little force.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:39:25 AM EST
Do not bite a cop,
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 7:40:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By adirondack47:

Originally Posted By chips:

Originally Posted By adirondack47:


The right hook to her cranium is a whole different kettle of fish.....
Why?

She was doing her absolute best to harm the officer. His goal is simple: take away any desire she has to resist and harm him. He had to remove one hand from her to deploy his OC spray. The punch stunned her enough to where he was able to do so.

How would OC spray be perfectly acceptable when a punch is not?


Should he simply allow her to do as she pleases with complete impunity?



To this end why didnt he just draw his sidearm and shoot her? If we are placing the premium on taking her desire away to resist and potentially harm him why not usurp the entire continuum of deadly force protocol? Would a double tap to the abdomen or her pelvis not stun her enough for him to gain compliance?

Sound ridiculos? It should.

As we are all aware, hindsight is always 20/20. In my opinion, what he should have done is kick her legs out and put her on the ground. It would have been much easier to get a knee in the center of her back or a forearm in the neck area and then manipulate her arms from there. Last I checked most police academies in the United States teach grounded defensive and compliance tactics.



He had no problems manipulating her arms. In fact, he could have broken her spindly little arms, had he desired to, but he probably remembered that she's a 15 year old girl that weighs a hundred pounds and decided against that, for as long as he could, anyway.

I'll bet that leaving her in sight of the video camera for as much of the struggle as possible will prove to be a very good idea. Lots smarter than taking her to the ground in front of the car where you might/might not see what happens.

I agree, though, that he used too little force.


He did a good job of getting her in front of the camera. Otherwise this would be going a totally different way.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:23:53 AM EST
Perhaps the encounter could have been handled better, but IMHO it's nowhere near excessive force. We can debate all day on the best way to subdue a raving bitch, but as long as he's not shooting her or gratuitously pounding the crap out of her, it's good enough.

Link Posted: 10/7/2007 9:32:52 AM EST
I didn't watch the video.

Just wanted to add that unless you have done it you probably don't realize how difficult it is to gain control of someone without hurting them.

Gain control is pretty easy, hard take down into something solid (the ground) will take a lot of fight out. It also often hurts the suspect.

"It took four cops to arrest him" is usually because one didn't whip out an ASP and smack him a couple times in a effort to not hurt him.

Flexible skinny guys and women are especially tough to handle without hurting.

Joe
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:48:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By stormwalker:

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:
They need to invent a gun that shoots a net that will immobilize a person where the cop can stand off from the detained, fighting with some retard is getting old and if people start resisting arrest, officer injuries are gonna cost big to depts.


[nerd voice] yeah, yeah, or like a ray gun, yeah, that would be cool/[nerd voice]
With all the technology available today, one shot to wrap the guy up, cut a hole where his blowhole is so he can breathe or shout profanities, put a label on him, crime, where he was arrested, time, the tape where he resisted, take him to the stationhouse in a nice neat bundle. I can just envision everyine trying to resist getting cuffed now, officers popping shoulders and elbows, bite marks from AIDS losers, scratches from long nailed hookers, spit and vomit from bums ingested, save departments a shitload of disabilty claims.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:50:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:

Originally Posted By stormwalker:

Originally Posted By cobra-ak:
They need to invent a gun that shoots a net that will immobilize a person where the cop can stand off from the detained, fighting with some retard is getting old and if people start resisting arrest, officer injuries are gonna cost big to depts.


[nerd voice] yeah, yeah, or like a ray gun, yeah, that would be cool/[nerd voice]
With all the technology available today, one shot to wrap the guy up, cut a hole where his blowhole is so he can breathe or shout profanities, put a label on him, crime, where he was arrested, time, the tape where he resisted, take him to the stationhouse in a nice neat bundle. I can just envision everyine trying to resist getting cuffed now, officers popping shoulders and elbows, bite marks from AIDS losers, scratches from long nailed hookers, spit and vomit from bums ingested, save departments a shitload of disabilty claims.


Some coked-up dipshit would kick the bucket and ARFcom would have fits over it.
Link Posted: 10/7/2007 2:56:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2007 2:58:00 PM EST by WI_EBR]
First one of these posts I seen where too little force was used. I think He probably felt sorry for her or something

ETA
I think he did an outstanding job. He even brought the whole thing in front of the camera. Another good reason for cameras in cars
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