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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:25:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Good shoot.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:27:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Good shoot. Absolutely. Kid's lucky to be alive, if the information with the video is accurate. _MaH |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:29:06 PM EDT
[#3]
I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:30:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Another fine example of a knucklehead bringing a knife to a gunfight.
The kids mother is probably being interviewed right now, claiming her son was just getting his life together and wanted to be President someday...... |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:30:51 PM EDT
[#5]
He kinda waddled when he went after the cop...
Good Shoot. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:31:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Good shoot. Fucker charged; I would of shot him too.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:31:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived Nope, still 1-0. He's still alive, but I'll wager the farm that he doesn't try rushing a cop with a knife again. Okay, he might try shooting at one, in which case I hope he gets "Discovered", if you know what I mean. _MaH |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:34:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Nice video. That was really funny to hear the moan the perp let out after he was shot.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:36:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Either way 0-0, or 1-0, its nice to see one of those thugs getting taught a lesson.
-Rog |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:39:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Attempted suicide-by-cop? High, doped up? Mentally/emotionally unstable? Take two of these and call me in the morning! Good shoot!
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:39:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Whats that 21 foot rule again.
morons who bring knives to gun fight. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:39:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: Good shoot. Absolutely. Kid's lucky to be alive, if the information with the video is accurate. _MaH The video was clearly edited.  Good shoot. Somebody go tell Pekiti that this guy was <21ft away and didn't win. He was just hangin' out you know? |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:39:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Surprising how fast that fat ass closed the gap between him and the officer.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:43:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Surprising how fast that fat ass closed the gap between him and the officer. Good point, i bet he was glad he already had his front sight on the guy. -Rog |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:43:39 PM EDT
[#15]
21 Foot Rule. Good Shoot. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 9:50:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Damn JBTs.
All the kid wanted to do was walk down the street with his pet knife. the cops over reacted. Police Brutality. BAD COP!!!!! NO DONUT!!!!!! Bastard cops probably went on vacation the next day! BASTARDS!!!  Did I miss any of the standard cop bashing lines?
Great example of the Tueller Drill in action. Cop could have done a bit better job with the gun work. Had he been a bit quicker he could have either laid in the head shot for the full Mozambique or maybe a final anchoring shot to make sure of the issue. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:03:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Bad shoot.
Witnesses say they saw the "suspect" using the knife to cut a cake with an hour prior to the shoot. The suspect is also partially deaf in one ear, and definitely did not hear or understand the police officers. Clearly he was just walking down the road with his cake knife when this jack booted thug decided it would be a good night to bust some caps. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:10:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Bad shoot. Witnesses say they saw the "suspect" using the knife to cut a cake with an hour prior to the shoot. The suspect is also partially deaf in one ear, and definitely did not hear or understand the police officers. Clearly he was just walking down the road with his cake knife when this jack booted thug decided it would be a good night to bust some caps. On his way back from reading to cancer patients and on his way to the soup kitchen. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:19:01 PM EDT
[#19]
That video looked like a bad training video.
Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:22:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:34:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. no....good shoot |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:52:59 PM EDT
[#22]
good shoot
the only problem I see is the kid forgot rule 1 of a gunfight bring a gun but more importantly is no one else got hurt |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:56:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Good shoot. Absolutely. Kid's lucky to be alive, if the information with the video is accurate. _MaH It is. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 10:57:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived I've heard WRPD is switching to .45 from 9mm due to the results of this shooting. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but apparently they didn't get much penetration. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:07:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. I'm not saying its not a good shoot. I'm saying tactically, the officers could have put themselves in a better, safer position. You guys do realize that there is something to be gained by watching these types of videos... aside from increasing your post count, right? The department is already considering switching to another caliber handgun. Are you saying the officers couldn't have done a better job tactically? John |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:11:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Wow, that's a half hour south of were I lived over the summer. I was still in the area when that happened. Guess I should have payed more attention to the local news.
 I've met a few officers from Rapids PD. Seemed like good people.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:14:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Hopefully they will have money left over to upgrade the cameras in the squad cars too, that video looks like it is 1992Quoted: I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived I've heard WRPD is switching to .45 from 9mm due to the results of this shooting. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but apparently they didn't get much penetration. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:14:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. I'm not saying its not a good shoot. I'm saying tactically, the officers could have put themselves in a better, safer position. John Your observation misses 2 things. 1) the knife was not visible during the initial seconds of the contact. 2) The offender was walking away from the officer as the officer was attempting to make contact. Having the officer stay in the car, while the suspect is walking away, fails to address the suspect's abilioty to flee. Had the suspect been stationary, and armed when the officer drove up, then leaving the cover of the car would be less advisable. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:17:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully they will have money left over to upgrade the cameras in the squad cars too, that video looks like it is 1992
Quoted:
I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived I've heard WRPD is switching to .45 from 9mm due to the results of this shooting. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but apparently they didn't get much penetration. http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20100903/WRT0101/100903058/-1/archive It's a real challenge to keep video systems working 24/7/365 in a police car. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:19:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Good shoot.
Dumb deranged kid. good example for the 21 foot rule. If the attackers knife is drawn and your gun is not... 
makes me think about it a bit more... he was closer, but he was also a fat kid... |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:24:49 PM EDT
[#31]
suicide by cop. Wait no he couldnt even do that right. Dumb fuck
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:26:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Effective use of the proper tool. Good shoot.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:27:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. I'm not saying its not a good shoot. I'm saying tactically, the officers could have put themselves in a better, safer position. John Your observation misses 2 things. 1) the knife was not visible during the initial seconds of the contact. 2) The offender was walking away from the officer as the officer was attempting to make contact. Having the officer stay in the car, while the suspect is walking away, fails to address the suspect's abilioty to flee. Had the suspect been stationary, and armed when the officer drove up, then leaving the cover of the car would be less advisable. Well, now we have a conversation.  I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer, saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:29:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Hopefully they will have money left over to upgrade the cameras in the squad cars too, that video looks like it is 1992Quoted: I still say its 0-0, the fucker lived I've heard WRPD is switching to .45 from 9mm due to the results of this shooting. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but apparently they didn't get much penetration. Their camera may well have been installed in 1992. Those fuckers are expensive. My dept just got a new one with a grant. ~8K, ant that's without all the bells and whistles (middle of the road) Cameras don't like darkness. They needs light to work good. It's hard to make something small enough to hang in the windshield that doesn't block the entire thing that will still pull in enough light to get good usable video. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:32:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Well, now we have a conversation. I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John From my understanding: Large Hmong wedding in town. 0300 a bunch of them are wandering the streets and decide to jump a car at a stop light and pound on the windows/etc. Guy calls 911 instead of just running them over, WRPD shows up just a few minutes later and this is what you see. I don't think it was "perfect" but it was pretty damn good. The kid was still walking away when he exited the car, and continued to back away until the one officer yelled "Tase Him" then he charged. I think I probably would have left the car in that instance too if only because the kid was backing away |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:34:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Isn't the 21-foot rule for drawing and shooting from the holster?
Officer already had his gun out... it's a lot less than 2 seconds to put rounds on target when you're already guns-up and ready to go. I'd still have stayed behind cover... |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:37:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Well, now we have a conversation. I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John From my understanding: Large Hmong wedding in town. 0300 a bunch of them are wandering the streets and decide to jump a car at a stop light and pound on the windows/etc. Guy calls 911 instead of just running them over, WRPD shows up just a few minutes later and this is what you see. Not much to go on. Do you know what ammo they use in their .45s? John |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:37:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Well, now we have a conversation.
I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John He had been with a group of 2 other teens breaking into cars, one of who threatened another person with a knife. Most LEO's don't have 40mm available to them, hitting a suspect with a car......................... yeah that was better than what was shown in the video. 
There generally aren't perfect solutions, in the real world. Confronting the suspect, in a way that minimizes his chance to flee, and possibly victimize others, is a legitimate tactical theory. Going in with tactics heavily weighted to officer safety, may allow the suspect to escape. The next encounter with that suspect may be even more dangerous, for the citizen or officer involved. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:39:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, now we have a conversation. I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John From my understanding: Large Hmong wedding in town. 0300 a bunch of them are wandering the streets and decide to jump a car at a stop light and pound on the windows/etc. Guy calls 911 instead of just running them over, WRPD shows up just a few minutes later and this is what you see. Not much to go on. Do you know what ammo they use in their .45s? John They use 9's. No, I don't. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:40:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Most LEO's don't have 40mm available to them, hitting a suspect with a car......................... yeah that was better than what was shown in the video. Deadly force is deadly force.  Remember Oly, those in the big cities can get away with more than those of us in small towns. |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:56:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Well, now we have a conversation. I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John He had been with a group of 2 other teens breaking into cars, one of who threatened another person with a knife. Most LEO's don't have 40mm available to them, hitting a suspect with a car......................... yeah that was better than what was shown in the video. There generally aren't perfect solutions, in the real world. Confronting the suspect, in a way that minimizes his chance to flee, and possibly victimize others, is a legitimate tactical theory. Going in with tactics heavily weighted to officer safety, may allow the suspect to escape. The next encounter with that suspect may be even more dangerous, for the citizen or officer involved. Well, if it makes you feel any better, he lived. And we were acting on a confirmed double ADW. In fact, it took 6 officers to handcuff him afterward. We took him to the local hospital and he was OK'd to book into county the next morning. He faired better than the dude in the video. How long do you think he was hospitalized at tax payer expense for? Even though things worked out with our dude, we still debriefed and talked about how to do things better. John |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:07:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, now we have a conversation. I'd want to know the circs surrounding this contact. They had multiple officers on scene so they knew they had something. I never said "stay in the car" I said approaching and leaving cover. In this car his car. I meant using his car door as a barrier while giving commands. Even after I, and presumable the officer saw the knife, he continued to approach the suspect. Is that smart? I personally have been in this type of situation a couple dozen times. Mostly without a seen weapon (but implied by the reporting party), 4-5 times with knives, a baseball, bat, and my personal favorite, half a broken pool cue. The last one I shot twice with a 40MM less lethal with no reaction at all from the suspect. One of my partners finally hit him with his patrol car to stop him. You don't think that after the debrief, I didn't alter my tactics? Anyone who says there is nothing to learn and improve from this video is not being realistic... but then again, this is GD. If I came off like the officers did something wrong, I apologize. It is a good shoot. But could they have done things better? I let you decide. I've already made up my mind. John From my understanding: Large Hmong wedding in town. 0300 a bunch of them are wandering the streets and decide to jump a car at a stop light and pound on the windows/etc. Guy calls 911 instead of just running them over, WRPD shows up just a few minutes later and this is what you see. Not much to go on. Do you know what ammo they use in their .45s? John They use 9's. No, I don't. My bad. I misread. Although I'm a .45 guy, they could probably solve their under penetration problem with better ammo. save them some money for better video cameras. John |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:16:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Isn't the 21-foot rule for drawing and shooting from the holster? Officer already had his gun out... it's a lot less than 2 seconds to put rounds on target when you're already guns-up and ready to go. I'd still have stayed behind cover... Yes, referring to the amount of time it takes to draw and fire, compared to how quick a human can cover 21'. Doesn't apply in this situation since the LEO already had his pistol drawn and trained on the BG. Which is why he got popped 3 times before reaching the officer. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:17:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That video looked like a bad training video. Not to second guess the officer(s), because I know a lot of stuff is happening and going through their mind at once, but if it had been a training scenario, the officer(s) would have got dinged for leaving cover and approaching. Kids lucky to be alive. John Wrong. I'm not saying its not a good shoot. I'm saying tactically, the officers could have put themselves in a better, safer position. John Your observation misses 2 things. 1) the knife was not visible during the initial seconds of the contact. 2) The offender was walking away from the officer as the officer was attempting to make contact. Having the officer stay in the car, while the suspect is walking away, fails to address the suspect's abilioty to flee. Had the suspect been stationary, and armed when the officer drove up, then leaving the cover of the car would be less advisable. Oly, I watched and rewatched that video 4-5 times now. Even with the dude walking away, he still had his hand in his right pocket and that knife came out pretty quick in the video. Even after the knife was pulled, the officer continued to approach the suspect. On a positive note, I liked that the officers approached in a L shape and only one gave commands. John |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:18:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: My bad. I misread. Although I'm a .45 guy, they could probable solve their under penetration problem with better ammo. save them some money for better video cameras. John Not my call, not my problem. I don't have any affiliation with them at all. Just hear things through the grapevine from some pretty reliable sources. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:24:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Sorry , but this person was too stupid/aggressive to let go.
Good shoot, but I'd like to see some 5.56/7.62 patrol rifle involved. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:42:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't the 21-foot rule for drawing and shooting from the holster? Officer already had his gun out... it's a lot less than 2 seconds to put rounds on target when you're already guns-up and ready to go. I'd still have stayed behind cover... Yes, referring to the amount of time it takes to draw and fire, compared to how quick a human can cover 21'. Doesn't apply in this situation since the LEO already had his pistol drawn and trained on the BG. Which is why he got popped 3 times before reaching the officer.
And a fine course of action it was 
Bet he won't do that again. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 1:06:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Sorry , but this person was too stupid/aggressive to let go. Good shoot, but I'd like to see some 5.56/7.62 patrol rifle involved. If they were available to the Officers (I don't know) they probably didn't have time to pull them out of the racks. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 1:09:37 AM EDT
[#49]
Run at a cop with a weapon in your hand, expect to get shot. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 1:19:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Run at a cop with a weapon in your hand, expect to get shot. Like a 17 year old with a rifle? What if he's only walking? Because the last thread that the police shot someone coming at them with a weapon, you posted this; Hey Johnboy, you want my insight? These cops were fuckin' two bit punk ass thugs who murdered some poor kid in cold blood. They deserve to be thrown in prison for life and not in some faggot protective custody ward but in General Population so they can get the shit kicked out of them on a regular basis. They're like two many other JBTs that think with their surrogate penises instead of actually have a brain in their fuckin' empty heads. They had no right to do what they did, but worst case they'll just get a slap on the wrist at the end of their paid vacations. Now why don't you go back to sitting on your hands instead of honoring me with another one of your few stupid fuckin' posts. Better? John |
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