User Panel
Posted: 2/4/2002 11:03:42 PM EDT
This is pretty regional information, but I know we have a few members here from the county, so I thought I'd pass this along.
Deputy Sheriff Scott Jacobs is running for the county sheriff position. I sent him an e-mail concerning CCW and his reply is below. He also has an interesting plan to have inmates pay "rent" for their incarceration for county jail time. I'm working on a reply right now to find out what his definition of "adequate need" is. If you have any other questions, I'll include them. In a message dated 2/4/02 2:36:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > If you are elected sheriff in the upcoming election, would you be > willing to issue CCW licenses for residents of Contra Costa county? Mr Nelson, thank you for your email. Concealed weapons permits are one of those "hot-button" issues that no real politician wants to deal with. However, since I am not a "professional" politician, I am happy to share my thoughts with you. The state legislature has enacted a fair statute regarding the reasonable issuance of CCWs to those individuals that demonstrate a legitimate need. One problem with the current administration is the appearance of favoritism because Sheriff's Posse members seem to get them, while similarly situated citizens do not. I will use a lieutenant or captain to review applicaitons and decide who has demonstrated adequate need to justify issuing a permit. I do not generally believe that flooding public areas with armed citizens will automatically cut down on crime. Even as a trained peace officer, I am wary about introducing my weapon into a conflict whe I am off duty; there are many risks, including collateral injuries. Under my plan, there would not be favoritism, and the policy would treat all citizens fairly. I am mindful of the need to protect life and property using reasonable means. I am also aware that a rationale policy regarding issuing CCWs is somewhere between the rhetoric of either extreme. If you have any further questions, please call 689-7635, and I will be happy to speak with you directly. Thank you for your inquiry; I look forward to earning your vote. Scott Jacobs View Quote |
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DVD,
I still don't think we'll qualify. He seems more like he'll get rid of the current cronyism more than spread the availibility. BTW, when we were talking about king size beds, check out [url]www.overstock.com[/url] . We get whole sheet sets for thirty bucks or so. Check them out. |
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DVD,
Jacobs is saying that unless you are in serious risk of your life or a person that has a legitimate excuse you will be issued a CCW. If you are a citizen that says "'cause I'd like to be able to defend myself in need", then tough luck. At this point there are exactly 120 ccw permits in this county. I seriously wonder how many gave to the Sherrifs fund. PS..Overstock.com is a great website. I've bought alot of things from them! Alex |
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Scott Jacobs sounds like he may be better than what you have now, but he's a far cry from Orange County Sheriff Carona, who campaigned on the CCW issue and came right out and said he would issue CCWs, which he has done as promised. Scott Jacobs claims he isn't a professional politician but in his letter he sure seems to dance around the issue.
Perhaps he is just ignorant and needs to be educated. By him saying he doesn't believe [i]"flooding public areas with armed citizens will automatically cut down on crime."[/i] shows that he's not aware that A) relatively few citizens even apply for CCWs, and B) statistics show that CCWs DO IN FACT cut down on crime. You guys need to work on him and show him the light. |
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First, don't trust anyone who's last name is Jacobs.
Secondly, it sounds to me if he goes through with his plan to get rid of favoritism, one could take it to mean there will be no CCW at all! Not even for the sheriff's cronies. That would get rid of the favoritism, right? Some of you guys may remember that sheriff out in the delta who was issuing CCW's in the late 80's and early 90's. The Bay Area media fried him! I think he either quit doing it of got voted out of office. Anyway, the way the San Francisco media spoke of him, one would think he was screwing little boys. He was crucified. I do not expect to see an increase in CCW's around here. Jacobs sounds like he's more open to it than the rest, but that's not saying much. |
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Quoted: Some of you guys may remember that sheriff out in the delta who was issuing CCW's in the late 80's and early 90's. The Bay Area media fried him! I think he either quit doing it of got voted out of office. Anyway, the way the San Francisco media spoke of him, one would think he was screwing little boys. He was crucified. View Quote He got legislated out of doing it. There used to be a law, or lack of a law, that would let a sheriff of a county issue CCW to anyone in the state. So they passed a law that said sheriffs could only issue CCW for people in their county. |
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Here's my reply. Lets see if he's going to earn my vote or not.
Thank you for your reply. What guidelines would you use for adequate need for a CCW license? Granted, some occupations where people come into contact with criminals more often or are carrying large amounts of cash or valuables would certainly apply, as they are prime targets. However, criminals can strike anyone at anytime. This point was reinforced last night by one of the members of a message board I frequent. He was driving home with his girlfriend when he was attacked by two other vehicles. After a long chase in which he lost one of the pursuers, he had to stop after getting stuck at a railroad crossing. The people in the other vehicle got out of their car and approached him. Upon presenting his weapon, the two people decided to leave rather than have a confrontation. This person did not know the attackers and did everything he could to avoid this confrontation. More information on this can be found at http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=91688 In my own view, adequate need boils down to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not just a high-risk job or a specific threat on someone's life. People have the right to defend themselves in their own home. If they are a responisble, law-abiding citizen, that right should not end at their front door. Take me for example. I've been married four years, have a nice full-time job in the computer industry and am a homeowner. I have no criminal background. My last traffic ticket was eight years ago. I have been shooting firearms for the past six years, with about 15,000 rounds through my primary 9mm pistol, plus several thousand rounds through my other pistols, rifles & shotguns. I've taken firearms training at Frontsight in Nevada and HALO in Concord. I regularly participate in Action Pistol competition at the USI range in Concord. I do not have a high-risk job or a specific threat on my life. Based on the criteria above, would I be able to get a CCW under your guidelines? View Quote |
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As I was expecting...
Hi Pete, thanks for your email. first, perhaps it's my coppish training, but your message board sample struck me as unpersuasive. road rage is precisely on reason I am reluctant to enthusiastically support escalating the number of guns in public. I remember on inmate telling me about shooting someone during a road rage incident after the other guy poured a big-gulp on him. until then, the inmate was a model citizen. I wonder where you would go, and what you would do (this is the proverbial 'you', not necessarily 'pete') with a pistol that you do not currently do. As far as "responsible law abiding citizens"- even off-duty cops make stupid decisions involving guns (no need to get into specifics here). As I review your "criteria", I am not as yet convinced of your need to have a CCW. Thank you for your inquiry. View Quote |
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BTW, comments can be sent to [email protected]
And as much as you want to rip this guy a new one, please make your e-mails rational and constructive. |
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And I just sent this back to him...
Would some facts help to persuade you? This just a sample of some of the statistics from the 1992 FBI Uniform Crime Reports: The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000). Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 - 2/28/94 (over 6 years) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used). Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. As far as what "we" would do with a pistol that we currently do, it would be the same as you do when you carry concealed off-duty; grocery shopping, go to the movies, spend time with family & friends, etc. Carrying a firearm would not turn us into vigilantes looking for trouble. It would only serve to give us another option, a last-resort, if you had no other choice and were about to suffer grave bodily harm. The impression that I am getting from you is that you don't feel I am responsible enough to defend my life with a firearm. If that's the way you feel, how did you come to that conclusion and why do you feel that way? By the way, I agree with many of the other positions you have listed on your web site, including having inmates pay rent, removing unecessary restrictions on officer's uniforms and choice of firearms. However, I feel very strongly about the CCW issue and that is the reason for my inquiries. View Quote |
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Here's my email to him:
I recently came across your website. I'm a resident of Contra Costa County, and after reading some of the items on your page you seem to be a good candidate for Sherriff. I agree with many of the things I've read on your site. The reason that I'm writing is I would like to ask about your position on issuing concealed carry permits. As you probably know, the State allows Sheriffs to sign off on issuing said permits. Our current Sherriff has been less than fair it seems in issuing them as well. If you haven't read or heard about the following site in particular, you may want to view it: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/ In particular, what do you consider to be "good cause" for determining who would receive a permit? I am curious as this phrasing of the law allows for a great deal of interpretation, and would be interested to hear your view on the matter. Your website makes you seem like a fair and reasonable person, and a good candidate for Sherriff. Good luck in your campaign. |
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I am sure that a sizable contribution to his special fund, is proof of adequate need. He sounds like just another PRK gun grabber that makes an exception for the elite.
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Quoted: I am sure that a sizable contribution to his special fund, is proof of adequate need. He sounds like just another PRK gun grabber that makes an exception for the elite. View Quote My thoughts exactly! Its ok for me to carry concealed and protect my own life and the lives of my family because "I'm a COP" |
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Quoted: And I just sent this back to him... View Quote |
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Actually, it was the Chief Of Police in Isleton, a little town in Sacramento County, that was issuing CCWs. At the time, it was legal for a CLEO to issue CCWs to any resident their county. Much of Isleton's income was made via those CCWs.
Anyway, after the media found out, he was vilified every day for a month, making front-page/top-of-the-hour news, until our illustrious leaders in Sacramento changed the law so that CLEOs could only issue to residents of their town, and that only the county Sherriff could issue to residents county-wide. === BTW, it might be worth mentioning that there are now 33 (or 34?) states that have "shall issue" CCW, and there has yet to be "Old West shootouts" or "road-rage mania" in any of those states. Instead, across the board, the violent crime rate has fallen in those states. Not that I expect it to make any difference. This *is* Kalifornistan, after all. -Troy |
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I got the 31 states number off packing.org. Here's the reply I received. This looks a little more promising. I will probably call him in the next couple days.
Pete, (if I my call you Pete), in the grand philosophical discussion of who do I trust- I trust people more than I trust government to make everyday decisions. Yes, I do trust you to make the right decision in order to defend your life. I also think that seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws restrcit an individual's freedom of choice. Believe it or not, I was just a regular guy before I became a cop. I could not really imagine why CCWs should be hard to get. A part of me still says hey if good guys hve guns, then bad guys will not have easy victims. BUT, theory and reality diverge. so, while philospohically I may agree with Florida and Texas community standards with respect to CCWs, as a California cop, I am hesitant to jump on that bandwagon. Your stats are interesting, but as an attorney, and bachelor of public administration, I view statistical arguements skeptically. Your impression of my view is not my view. I would be happy to talk on the phone about it with you- my # is 925-689-7635; call me and we can get into it in greater depth than an email allows. Oh, thanks for your support of my 'inmates pay rent' idea. Placer county does it already, and they make hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. We could recoup millions. View Quote |
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I think I'll write in Eugene Byrd for Governor. While I'm at it, I think I'll write him in for all offices. If I am going to throw my vote away, it might as well be to somebody that won't grab my guns.
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DVDTRACKER, seems to me you have your answer. This guy is just another dick. You won't get a CCW. So, How you going to vote.[:(]
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demonstrated adequate need to justify issuing a permit View Quote Text like that makes me sick. How racist are the legislators to require something like that? What kind of person is he to believe that? Is there a better way to make sure only well-off whites get permits? Other than a law that states "you must be white and own land to receive a permit," I couldn't imagine anything that would more effectively accomplish that goal. If the legislators had any guts, they'd say what they meant. In South Carolina, at least the state police seem to be turning everyone down rather than just the "undesirables." I'm a 73 year-old white verteran, and I don't have a permit.z |
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He's still waffling and he doesn't want to take a stand. You're going to have to pin him down on this. If he goes one way he loses your vote along with every other like-minded person you know, and if he goes the other way he's setting himself up for the media treatment given to the Isleton CLEO. He sounds like he needs a little more convincing.
If I may offer a few suggestions... 1) Put him in touch with Orange County Sheriff Carona. He beat the incumbent Sheriff largely due to his stand on the CCW issue. OC has about a thousand CCWs so far with no road rage or other incidents that I know of, as to be expected from such a law-abiding lot. I think Contra Costa County and Orange County are similar in population. 2) Since he's skeptical of statistics. send him a copy of John Lott's [i]More Guns, Less Crime[/i]. If anyone can read that and not be convinced, their head is screwed on wrong. 3) Remind him that you are but one of many gun owners in your county who agree on this issue. His stand on this one issue could make or break his chances for election. He already acknowledged that the old way was rife with cronyism. Turn the tables on him and make him convince you that he's going to change it, and that's what it's going to take to earn your vote. Good luck. |
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Considering we have guns laws like this in CCC:
44-4.002 Firearms--Possession by minors. No minor under the age of sixteen year shall possess or use firearms of .22 calibre or greater or air guns except under the direct supervision and control of an adult. (Prior code § 3300: Ord. 603). View Quote What are the odds of getting CCW passed? And just to piss you off, the CCC Saturday Night Special exclusion: 54-20.014 Exemptions. Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit the disposition of any Saturday night special by police departments, sheriffs offices, marshals offices, the California Highway Patrol, other local, state and federal law enforcement agencies, or the military and naval forces of this state or the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties; nor shall anything in this chapter prohibit the use of any Saturday night special by regular, salaried, full-time officers, employees or agents thereof when on duty and the use of such firearms is within the scope of their duties. (Ord. 96-42 § 2). View Quote Here's one I didn't even know existed. 82-36.1002 Record of ammunition sales. No firearm dealer shall sell or otherwise transfer ownership of any ammunition without at the time of purchase recording the following information on a form to be prescribed by GMEDA: the date of the transaction, the name, address and date of birth of the transferee, the transferee’s driver’s license or other identification number and the state in which it was issued, the brand, type and amount of ammunition transferred and the transferee’s signature. (Ord. 95-59 § 1). View Quote This place in insane. |
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Quoted: I think Contra Costa County and Orange County are similar in population. View Quote Actually, we have just under 1 million people while OC has just under 3 million. And of course, OC is much more affluent than CCC (Don't even mention Blackhawk. In OC they are dime-a-dozen). But the real issue is this: while OC is historically conservative and pro-business (excluding parts of Santa Ana and maybe Garden Grove), Contra Costa is historically democrat and pro-union. I know Walnut Creek for one tried to pass a local ban on SUR's. And the cities of Pleasant Hill, Lafayette, and Orinda (East Berkeley) are not exactly pro-gun either. But we are trying. I write letters-to-the-editor regularly in an effort to counteract the anti-gun venom spewing forth from Lafayette (the elitist liberals). In fact, the CC Times published one of my letters last week. Anyway, people like myself are in the minority here. |
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Here is the response I got from him, and a few comments I'll add. the CCW issue is certainly one of the most popular issues in this campaign. View Quote Glad to see it's hot on his mind. Better to enlighten him now rather than try and change his mind later. [QOUTE]there are two issues i would like to address: 1) as a cop, i think fewer guns on the streets makes cops feel better. but, there is no way a cop can be available every time a bad guy tries to commit a crime. i am personally torn between my philosophical bend (towards a libertarian view), and my experience as a cop that escalating the number of guns makes me wary. View Quote I think he should realize that he's thinking in terms of criminals, not law abiding citizens having the firearms. 2) once elected, i will appoint a captain or lieutenant to decide if an individual passes the 'good cause' test- i will not get personally involved in the process. there is an appearance that the incumbent plays favorites with his friends, and that is just not right. under my policy, every application will be judged on its merits, not on who one knows. View Quote This seems reasonable enough. As long as the individual is fair and applies the criteria evenly, then I'm ok with that. finally, to your question- what do you consider to be "good cause" for determining who would receive a permit? "Facts that indicate a person engages in business or personal activities such that his or her safety is at a heightened risk, and the possession of a concealed firearm may be reasonably necessary to protect said indiviual." << this is not a final statement, but it's a pretty good working model. i will not hand out CCWs like candy, but they will not be impossible to get. View Quote The real meat and potatoes. He's obviously had to put some thought into this, but he should be putting a little more. thanks for your interest. if you want to talk about important issues, please give me a call 925-689-7635 View Quote And then he blows it all with that statement. Sigh. I would like to stress that if you write him, please be non-confrontational and try and show you are on his side, or close to it. Out of the three candidates that we have right now, he is the one I would rather have...and I'd rather have him friendly to our cause than otherwise simply because we pissed him off being too pissy about this. |
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i will not hand out CCWs like candy, but they will not be impossible to get. View Quote Just like all the other gun grabbers, it will be impossible for everbody but the wealthy and elite. [:(] |
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Quoted: 2) Since he's skeptical of statistics. send him a copy of John Lott's [i]More Guns, Less Crime[/i]. If anyone can read that and not be convinced, their head is screwed on wrong. View Quote |
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If some people do get them, the CC Times will have their name and address published before you can blink an eye.
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