Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/5/2005 4:03:41 PM EDT


(from latest AOPA ePilot email)

CONGRESS INCREASES JET FUEL PRICES
If you use jet fuel, your life will get a little more complicated and
expensive on October 1. According to the IRS, a lot of truckers are buying
jet fuel to avoid paying the higher taxes on diesel fuel. So Congress
"fixed" the problem in the latest highway bill. Starting in October,
jet fuel will be taxed at the higher highway rate (adding 2.6 cents to
the price of a gallon), and all of the tax revenue will go into the
highway trust fund. Aircraft operators, or possibly the FBO, will have
to apply to the IRS for a refund of the difference, which will also
trigger the Treasury Department to transfer the money from the highway
fund to the aviation fund. AOPA will work to fix this glitch when
Congress reconsiders aviation taxes in 2007.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:06:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:06:28 PM EDT
can we fire congress?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:06:30 PM EDT
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:06:39 PM EDT
congress controls the price of jet fuel?


Go freedom!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:07:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:08:21 PM EDT


Yeah, Jet A is pretty much Diesel #2 with a little less oil in it. I used to fuel commercial jets and some of the guys I worked with bought diesel vehicles and filled them with filtered sump drainage from the fuel trucks.

I used to put 100 octane avgas in my motorcycle.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:13:48 PM EDT
So did a fed tax increase happen in the last couple years on diesel fuel, or were there more regulations to make diesel fuel "cleaner", which added cost? All of a sudden diesel fuel, which used to be the cheapest, has become more expensive than regular unleaded.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:15:22 PM EDT
Ahhhh, thats cool.... Learned something new today.. YIPPIE!!!!


Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Yeah, Jet A is pretty much Diesel #2 with a little less oil in it. I used to fuel commercial jets and some of the guys I worked with bought diesel vehicles and filled them with filtered sump drainage from the fuel trucks.

I used to put 100 octane avgas in my motorcycle.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:16:56 PM EDT
+1 on the confusion of jet fuel in desiel engins some how I don't think this story is accurate.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:17:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:18:51 PM EDT by fadedsun]

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Cessna made jets?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:20:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Cessna made jets?

Yes, they do. Citation come to mind?



when was the last time you saw a guy named bubba leaving his citation outside?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:21:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
can we fire congress?



All at once?

I wish!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:22:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna... LEARJET

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Cessna made jets?



Really really small ones with propellers
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:22:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Cessna made jets?



Lots of them and for a very long time:

citation.cessna.com/
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:22:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:25:43 PM EDT
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???




Originally Posted By MagKnightX:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:26:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:28:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:29:30 PM EDT by nationwide]
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:29:00 PM EDT
At least here in Californistan it's ILLEGAL to drive on public roads running jet fuel in your diesel car or truck, because the required highway taxes haven't been collected.

Diesel cars run great on JP5 BTW.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:30:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:30:43 PM EDT by California_Kid]

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
...
Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?



Not sure about civilian fuel but the fuel used in military jets is pinkish, and the California Highway Patrol looks for pink residue on car and truck exhaust systems.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:32:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:35:45 PM EDT by ohiofarmer]
"Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?" (Edited to add: Geez, I couldn't even properly quote MagKnightX)

Not to nitpick, but Cessa is a manufacturer of airplanes. The manufacture both piston powered craft and jets. So, saying that "Cessnas use avgas" is not completely true. Only some Cessnas use avgas.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:57:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:59:20 PM EDT

Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???

Happens all of the time around here. The cops check to make sure that farmers aren't running diesel in their pickups that they bought to use in their tractors or heaters that hasn't had the highway tax paid. It's a very profitable stop since it involves large fines, towing the vehicle, and storage fees.z
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:03:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stormwalker:
+1 on the confusion of jet fuel in desiel engins some how I don't think this story is accurate.



Jet fuel runs diesel engines perfectly well. Our flight line is lined with power carts with fuel caps labeled "Diesel/JP8". They run all day long on "contaminated" jet fuel.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:06:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???





About 3 months ago.

What I want to know is how are they filling up with jet fuel? I could just see a line of tractor-tarilers driving around on the ramp at ORD, waiting for a fuel truck...
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?



I can only comment on things when I worked in aviation which was 20+ years ago but Jet A was a natural amber color and the various grades of avgas were color coded based upon their octane rating. Red was the really hot shit, 100/130 I think. Anyway it was done so you didn't put the wrong shit in the wrong plane.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:07:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?



I can only comment on things when I worked in aviation which was 20+ years ago but Jet A was a natural amber color and the various grades of avgas were color coded based upon their octane rating. Red was the really hot shit, 100/130 I think. Anyway it was done so you didn't put the wrong shit in the wrong plane.



It hasn't changed. Most piston aircraft are fueled with 100 low lead, whic has a blue hue to it.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:08:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben



Cessna made jets?

Yes, they do. Citation come to mind?



when was the last time you saw a guy named bubba leaving his citation outside?



Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:09:17 PM EDT
I drive truck, and I don't know what they are talking about. I have never heard of commercial trucks using jet fuel. I haven't seen any trucks lining up at the airport for fuel.

But when I was in the Army and deployed, our fuel came from the Navy. It was Jet A, and our CUCV's ran fine on it. Everyone talked like it was a very "dry" fuel, though, and wouldn't be good in the long term. I doubt that truck drivers would want to use fuel like that.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:13:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:15:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 5:16:42 PM EDT by Captain_Picard]

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
I drive truck, and I don't know what they are talking about. I have never heard of commercial trucks using jet fuel. I haven't seen any trucks lining up at the airport for fuel.

But when I was in the Army and deployed, our fuel came from the Navy. It was Jet A, and our CUCV's ran fine on it. Everyone talked like it was a very "dry" fuel, though, and wouldn't be good in the long term. I doubt that truck drivers would want to use fuel like that.



The "dry" part is the fact that it isn't as oily as diesel. All the diesel equipment at airports is run on Jet A as someone already mentioned. I used to pump it myself.

I would also wonder where the truckers were getting Jet A in quantity. Not too many truck stops have a Jet A pump. Maybe trucking companies have been ordering Jet rather than diesel for their fleets?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:19:38 PM EDT
Sounds's like some congresscritter's aid heard about one guy using JP8 in his truck, and they used it as an excuse to raise taxes....
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:24:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
Everyone talked like it was a very "dry" fuel, though, and wouldn't be good in the long term. I doubt that truck drivers would want to use fuel like that.



This is true. On most newer diesels, at least in passenger cars and pick-up trucks, the lack of lubricity in the jet fuel will ruin your fuel pump and/or injectors in short time. You need to add some oil to your tank if you're going to use it... I think about 1/2 quart per 15gallons of fuel. And if you have a cat, you have to make sure it's ashless (2cycle) oil, or you'll plug the cat.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:46:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Yeah, Jet A is pretty much Diesel #2 with a little less oil in it. I used to fuel commercial jets and some of the guys I worked with bought diesel vehicles and filled them with filtered sump drainage from the fuel trucks.

I used to put 100 octane avgas in my motorcycle.

I'm also calling BS on this story! I also used to fuel for an airline, HOW WOULD YOU GET THE FUEL????? 5gal here,5 gal there,isn't worth the time invested. Yes,diesel engines will work on jet fuel(all the GSE is powered by diesel engines),but its hard on the injectors and pumps due to less lubricity(sp?),my old Peugeot diesel ran on jet fuel,but it was barely worth $200(man,what a junker!). Cessna makes jets,the Citation,for all you pilots(or wannabee's) its one of the few jets that can have a single pilot.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:49:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
can we fire congress?

Representatives and I don't know how many Senators will be up for Re-Election next year.

Fire them then!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:57:42 PM EDT
Well, I pay 3.40- 4.25 / gal already (f-ing thieves!), so a couple more cents is expected. It's skyway robbery, but thankfully, the boss is still willing.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:57:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Yeah, Jet A is pretty much Diesel #2 with a little less oil in it. I used to fuel commercial jets and some of the guys I worked with bought diesel vehicles and filled them with filtered sump drainage from the fuel trucks.

I used to put 100 octane avgas in my motorcycle.

I'm also calling BS on this story! I also used to fuel for an airline, HOW WOULD YOU GET THE FUEL????? 5gal here,5 gal there,isn't worth the time invested. Yes,diesel engines will work on jet fuel(all the GSE is powered by diesel engines),but its hard on the injectors and pumps due to less lubricity(sp?),my old Peugeot diesel ran on jet fuel,but it was barely worth $200(man,what a junker!). Cessna makes jets,the Citation,for all you pilots(or wannabee's) its one of the few jets that can have a single pilot.



Hey MattyMattel:

Who'd you work for? I fueled for Lockheed in Las Vegas and we did all the majors plus the shit work of ground equip. Used hydracarts and the 10K DARTs.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Sounds's like some congresscritter's aid heard about one guy using JP8 in his truck, and they used it as an excuse to raise taxes....



There's your winner
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:13:41 PM EDT
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Yeah, Jet A is pretty much Diesel #2 with a little less oil in it. I used to fuel commercial jets and some of the guys I worked with bought diesel vehicles and filled them with filtered sump drainage from the fuel trucks.

I used to put 100 octane avgas in my motorcycle.

I'm also calling BS on this story! I also used to fuel for an airline, HOW WOULD YOU GET THE FUEL????? 5gal here,5 gal there,isn't worth the time invested. Yes,diesel engines will work on jet fuel(all the GSE is powered by diesel engines),but its hard on the injectors and pumps due to less lubricity(sp?),my old Peugeot diesel ran on jet fuel,but it was barely worth $200(man,what a junker!). Cessna makes jets,the Citation,for all you pilots(or wannabee's) its one of the few jets that can have a single pilot.



Hey MattyMattel:

Who'd you work for? I fueled for Lockheed in Las Vegas and we did all the majors plus the shit work of ground equip. Used hydracarts and the 10K DARTs.

First worked for ASI back in '91-92,then got a job with COMAIR"Your Delta Connection Carrier" the hydrocarts and the KW Darts,used to get in races with them,those things sure could smoke! bAlso worked for the FBO at Cincy's smaller airport.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:23:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).




It don't help you during the fact, that's what the markings on the truck are for. The coloring is for when you do the preflight and check a fuel sample for color, contaminates, and water.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:24:11 PM EDT
The IRS has a whole group of employees called Dyed Diesel Inspectors whose sole function is to do surprise inspections at truck stops, logging sites, anywhere that dyed diesel fuel may be sold or in use. Dyed diesel is untaxed, supposed to used on farms basically. If found in an over the road truck, the penalties are unreal, something like $10 per gallon. i.e. 100 gallon tank would be a $1000 penalty. It would be simple for them to start checking for jet fuel during the same inspections.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:27:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).




Dyed fuel isn't supposed to let you know anything except which tax was paid on the fuel.

Ironically, it tells Revenue agents the SAME THING!!!

I dare you to cross a state line anywhere near ag ops during harvest and not get your tanks dipped.

And actually, you can see what color the fuel is when you pump it... if you are paying attention to pumping fuel.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:28:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
can we fire congress?



All at once?

I wish!


Read

CW
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:30:26 PM EDT
So I guess that guy who converted his truck to operate by burning wood is going to get heavily fined for not paying fuel taxes.

It's my vehicle. I'll fuel it with whatever the fuck I want to fuel it with and it's none of your fucking business.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:31:14 PM EDT
When testing on a truck,there is a spigot at the bottom of the fuel filters(about the size of a 20 gal trashcan),you take a white bowl and open the spigot,water will appear as bubbles on the bottom,plus rust,filter matter,which will also appear. Also,the filter effectiveness is also tested,once a month if I remember,its known as the milipore test(I got alot of overtime doing that).
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:31:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???



Jet A is nothing but highly refined, highly filtered kerosene with anti gel and anti icing additives.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:31:45 PM EDT
DOD is trying to get into a single fuel battle field.

JP will be the winner. Jets, Tanks, Trucks and Hummers all will operate (one day) on the same fuel. I am sure the little dune buggies and bikes will not be part of it. But even some of the RHIB's have tested with it.

Jet Fuel is like a highly refined diesel. Thats why in a puddle it is harmless, vaporize it (ie a crash) and all heck break loose.

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top