I've often heard that 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar, if not almost identical, to .30-30. This would explain why so many people hunt with SKS rifles and why AK-type rifles are sometimes used as brush guns for hunting feral pigs.

How does 7.62x39mm compare to .30-30 in terms of range, firepower, bullet-drop, etc.?

Does jacket soft-nose ammunition make a good hunting round?

I'm arguing with my dad that I can use my WASR-10 as a hunting rifle. He doesn't believe me.

Ballistics are very similar.

Harder to find good hunting ammo in 7.62x39, though.

ETA: Most of the 'soft point' stuff that is sold (like the wolf SP) is pretty crappy compared to a good JSP.

I've got 200 rounds of Silver Bear JSP. Looks to be steel cases, sealed primers and bullets, copper jackets, and soft lead tips.

The Russian stuff doesnt deform at all.  Its basically ball with a soft point or a hole on the top.  It will perform same as ball.

Winchester or Federal softpoint rounds mushroom nicely and work quite well on deer.

But it IS comparable to .30-30 and is just as acceptable as a hunting round.

Thank you. I think I'll show him this thread just to prove my point.

Yes, its a good hunting round for medium sized and smaller game. Its not good for big stuff just like a 30-30 would be bad for large animals.

The bullet choice makes a huge difference here.  Military ball is a shitty hunting round.  They tend to zip through most game unless you hit bone.  The deer or pig will die but will run off somewhere far. Of course there are exceptions but generally you want to use the good stuff for game.  It has more then acceptable accuracy for the distances usually involved.

Both rounds are within a percentage point, if not identical, for bullet mass, diameter, velocity and of course, kinetic energy.

I suspect (ie I don't have ballistics tables handy)  the spire point 7.62x39 bullet to show some better velocity at longer ranges.

Given the Russian use of the Winchester .30-30 in the pre-WW1 days, I am not suprised they came up with mid power round that pretty much duplicates it.

Thanks. This definitely helps.

I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag.

Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag.

No. 7.62x39mm is similar to .30-30.

7.62x54R is similar to .30-06, which is 7.62x63mm.

I've shot more than a few deer with the 7.62x39mm. It works well. I've never had one run more than 50yds, and most drop in their tracks. A deer will never survive a double lung hit, which is my aiming point 90% of the time.

Lapua makes the best soft-point round.

There is a nice VMAX bullet available for 7.62x29, and some other good bullets in .311 as well.  Its important to use these bullets if you're reloading, and not a .308 diameter round.

(Note that MINI-30 barrels actually throat down to .308, so some folks have experienced better accuracy on Mini-30s when using .308 dia bullets.   Of course, "better" on a Mini 30 still isn't that good.

The guys make a good point and reinforce what I have already said.  Use good ammo.  Military surplus or ball ammo will not do a good job.  

The Lapua 125 gr SP and Winchester Super-X 123 gr JSP's both perform well.

OTOH, many of those Russian SP's I've looked at look like nothing more than an FMJ with the tip clipped off and some lead dobbed into the cavity. Very cheap and crappy looking.

Quoted: The guys make a good point and reinforce what I have already said.  Use good ammo.  Military surplus or ball ammo will not do a good job.

Thanks. I knew that already. I was just wondering about the particular ammo I'd picked up since it was soft-point, which gets advertised as "good for hunting" whenever I see it for sale.

Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.  There are MAJOR differences in the bullet construction as most 125 grain bullets are varmit-style and do not hold together.   And others don't  have any expansion potential.

I will agree they are both maxed out at 200 yards, if you can make the shot.  But I prefer the .30-30 because I know there is over 100 years of performance in its construction.

Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.  There are MAJOR differences in the bullet construction as most 125 grain bullets are varmit-style and do not hold together.   And others don't  have any expansion potential. I will agree they are both maxed out at 200 yards, if you can make the shot.  But I prefer the .30-30 because I know there is over 100 years of performance in its construction.

I shot a feral pig in the left ear and out the right shoulder at 300 yards with my .30-30. Remington hollow-point, about ten years old, bullet weight unknown. Firearm was a Winchester Ranger with iron sights. I won't mention that I was aiming for a lung shot rather than a head shot.

The SKS and AK-47 together have 60+ years of reputation as the single most popular firearms in the world. The 7.62x39mm round has enjoyed the same reputation and has spread to other popular firearms, such as the Galil, Chinese Type 56, etc. There's gotta be a reason for that.

Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.

7.62X39
174 grain match king
24.7 grains of vvn 130

Quoted: Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.   7.62X39 174 grain match king 24.7 grains of vvn 130 www.hunt101.com/img/313727.JPG

somebody just got owned.

very informative, thanks guys!

I've heard of plenty of incidences where the SKS is used as a deer jacking rifle.

You can definately take a deer or feral pig down with it especially with a well-placed round. And if it's a weapon you're more familiar and comfortable with it'll be more appropriate for making those "well placed shots".

So my verdict is"Go for it."

I shot my first deer with a 30.30 at about 20 yds.  The bullet did not go through and the deer was about 100 lbs.  I shot my last deer with a MAK 90, 7.62x39 hollow point at about the same range.  This deer was about 115 lbs and the shot made a dime size hole going in and made a quarter sized hole going out, (shot placement was roughly the same in both deer).  I'd say the 7.62x39 was more powerful.  In both cases, the deer did not drop on the spot.

My dad dropped one the year before last with his SKS using wolf 7.62 x 39 HP. It was about 40 yds.

Quoted: Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.   7.62X39 174 grain match king 24.7 grains of vvn 130 www.hunt101.com/img/313727.JPG

At 2000 FPS.  Saying it is "ballistically comparable" is like saying the .30/30 is ballistically similar to a .30-'06.  

I never said one couldn't load heavy bullets in the 7.62 x 39.  I know some people that load 147s in a .30 Carbine in custom 1:10" twist barrels.  

Quoted: I shot my first deer with a 30.30 at about 20 yds.  The bullet did not go through and the deer was about 100 lbs.  I shot my last deer with a MAK 90, 7.62x39 hollow point at about the same range.  This deer was about 115 lbs and the shot made a dime size hole going in and made a quarter sized hole going out, (shot placement was roughly the same in both deer).  I'd say the 7.62x39 was more powerful.  In both cases, the deer did not drop on the spot.

The first one most likely hit bone and the second did not. 30-30 will pass through a 170 lb. deer unless it is stopped by bone. I've shot deer in the ass with 30-30 and it come out through the chest.

While you can buy wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain boar busters,you can get 30/30 in 170 grain high Vel!!!

It's like saying you can load the .45 Colt to vel that compare to the 45/75,true up close,but distance will go to the 45/75!

The same goes for the AK round verses the 30/30 heavy rifle round!!!

Bob

Quoted: While you can buy wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain boar busters,you can get 30/30 in 170 grain high Vel!!! It's like saying you can load the .45 Colt to vel that compare to the 45/75,true up close,but distance will go to the 45/75! The same goes for the AK round verses the 30/30 heavy rifle round!!! Bob

1) I've never heard of a .45-75. Do you perhaps mean .45-70?

2) It's .30-30, .45-70, etc., not 30/30 or 45/70.

Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag.

Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got.

Quoted: Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.   7.62X39 174 grain match king 24.7 grains of vvn 130 www.hunt101.com/img/313727.JPG

Wow, thats pretty good for 25 yds.

Quoted: Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag. Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got.

yea but sks org came in 7.62x54r, theres a thread that was here yesterday about a guy taking down a chargin bear with a AK

Quoted: Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag. Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got.

7.62x54R is often referred to as "the Russian .30-06". Comparable firepower, though I'm fairly certain .30-06 has more going for it.

The SKS uses 7.62x39mm, which is nowhere near .30-06 in terms of power. And I would NOT be using an SKS to hunt bear if I had access to a bigger gun!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag. Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got. yea but sks org came in 7.62x54r, theres a thread that was here yesterday about a guy taking down a chargin bear with a AK

WTF?

if you read the article towards the bottom with the right rifle and ammo it is capable of hits out to 500 meters.
read red part. go to link to look at pics

gunblast.com/Doublestar-762x39.htm


Doublestar Star-15 7.62 x 39 Semi-auto Rifle



by Jeff Quinn

photography by Jeff Quinn & Boge Quinn

June 28th, 2005

Updated July 12th, 2005

Fans of Eugene Stoner’s AR-15 rifle system have never had it so good. There is a seemingly endless variety of AR-15s available, with more on the way. While many love the AR, there are those who are critical of the 5.56mm cartridge for which it is generally chambered. While the little cartridge does pretty well on vermin, and even shows good performance for social work using the right bullet, many desire a larger bullet. Moving up to a .308 chambered AR-10 is one solution, but at a cost of heavier weight and greater bulk. On the AR-15 platform, the 6.8mm SPC and the 6.5mm Grendel are showing great promise, but for those who desire more power in an AR-15 chambered for a much more common cartridge, Doublestar Corporation of Winchester, Kentucky is now offering their Star-15 carbine chambered for the plentiful 7.62 x 39mm cartridge. The 7.62 x 39 has been chambered in millions of SKS and AK-47 rifles, and military surplus ammo is cheap and readily available for plinking and target practice. Good hunting ammunition is also available from several sources. The power of the 7.62 x 39 cartridge is almost up to the level of the .30-30 Winchester cartridge, and due to the better ballistic coefficient of its bullets, offers a better trajectory for long-range performance. While I am not promoting the cartridge for long-range game hunting, it does perform better than one might expect out to three hundred yards or so, if the shooter does his part.

We received two variations of the Star-15 carbine here for review, differing only in the design of the hand guard. One version wears the standard elliptical fiberglass two-piece hand guard, and the other wears a short version of Doublestar’s Critterslayer free-float aluminum guard. The Star-15 carbine has a sixteen inch barrel with a flash suppressor attached at the muzzle. The upper receiver is of the flattop configuration, with a built-in 1913 Picatinny rail. The gas block also has a section of rail for attaching a front sight or other device. The upper receiver has the forward bolt assist and case deflector of the A-2 configuration. The pistol grip is of a very comfortable pebble-grain design, and has a bit of storage space within, along with a cover for the bottom opening.  The buttstock is an excellent six-position unit, allowing compact storage, along with an adjustable length-of-pull to fit most any shooter. The length-of-pull adjusts from ten and one-quarter inches to fourteen and one-eighth inches in roughly three-quarters of an inch increments, by depressing a lever and sliding the buttstock. Releasing the lever locks the stock into the desired position. Aside from the storage and transport handiness of this feature, this allows the rifle to be used by youngsters, and the length-of-pull can easily be adjusted as the shooter grows. It is also handy for full-sized adults to adjust when wearing heavy winter clothing. The overall length adjusts from thirty-two and one quarter to thirty six inches, and the unloaded carbine weighs six pounds and eleven ounces.

The trigger pull on this Doublestar is much better than the what is normally found on an AR-15. It has a very crisp let-off that releases at three pounds and ten ounces, yet feels even lighter, allowing for much better practical accuracy than can be achieved with a standard AR trigger.

The rifle is very well fitted, and wears an even matte black finish throughout.

The rifles were shipped to us without magazines, but standard AR ten, twenty, and thirty round 5.56mm mags worked reasonably well. I mostly used twenty-round Colt mags from the Vietnam war era, which worked well when stuffed with seven of the fatter 7.62 x 39 cartridges. Loading any more than that into the magazine swelled the body of the mag, making it difficult to insert into the magazine well of the rifle. Standard thirty-round magazines were also tested, and functioned well, but I prefer the length of the shorter mags.

I tested the gun for functionality and accuracy using a variety of commercial and surplus ammunition. The gun function perfectly with all ammo tested, but some of the Chinese surplus ammo failed to fire. This was no fault of the rifle; the primers were dented heavily, but failed to ignite. Winchester 123 grain soft point ammo proved to be plenty accurate for hunting in the Star-15, grouping five shots into one inch at one hundred yards, under gusty wind conditions at the NRA Whittington Center range near Raton, New Mexico. At fifty yards, the same ammo grouped into a ragged one-quarter inch hole for three shots.  Mounting a three power Trijicon ACOG scope, we took the Star-15 to the big bore metallic silhouette range at Whittington, and it was pretty easy to hit the steel rams at 500 meters (541 yards). These rams measure about  32 by 26 inches, but even with the wind blowing hard, hitting them four out of five times was not hard to do. My brother Boge and I, along with our good friends Chuck Smith, Dustin Linebaugh, and Rico Valencia kept the little carbine pretty hot plinking at the distant steel, with very satisfying results. Keeping the hits on a  200 yard whitetail deer would be very easy, and the cartridge is powerful enough to do the job at that range, and farther.

As a short, light and handy carbine to keep around the ranch or homestead, the Star-15 7.62 x 39 excels. It offers plenty of power and accuracy for ninety percent of what needs to be done with a rifle, from varmint control to home protection, or filling the freezer with meat.

Check out the entire line of Star-15 rifles at:  www.star15.com.

For more info on the Winchester 7.62 x 39 ammunition, go to: www.winchester.com.

To view the ACOG line of scopes and other excellent optics, go to:  www.trijicon.com.


UPDATE

Since originally writing this article, I have found that Brownells sells ten-round plastic magazines for the 7.62x39 AR-15 rifles. The ones that I tried worked well. They locked into the magazine well, functioned fine, and locked open the bolt when the magazine was empty. However, while the magazine loaded easily, it was hard to insert that tenth round. I believe that I will treat mine like they are nine-round mags, as it is very easy to load the first nine. You can order these direct from Brownells by calling 1-800-741-0015 or go online at:  www.brownells.com.

Brownells' part number is 556-115-310 and it sells for around fifteen bucks.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag. Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got. yea but sks org came in 7.62x54r, theres a thread that was here yesterday about a guy taking down a chargin bear with a AK

NO WAY!!! They came in 7.62 x 54 originally???? WOW, I never read that anywhere!!! Man that would have been awesome! A lot like the German G-43 ( I think that was it. ) that was I believe chambered in 8mm mauser. I could be wrong about that though as I've been wrong on other things, you know, in my life.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag. Well, 7.62 is .30 caliber. It is the same diameter as teh 30-06 but isn't in the ball park as far as power goes. Still I read in some hunting magazine a couple of years ago that guides that hunt Brown Bear over in Russia , use an sks. It showed the writer and some pics with the guides holding there SKSs. I guess, if thats all you got. yea but sks org came in 7.62x54r, theres a thread that was here yesterday about a guy taking down a chargin bear with a AK NO WAY!!! They came in 7.62 x 54 originally???? WOW, I never read that anywhere!!! Man that would have been awesome! A lot like the German G-43 ( I think that was it. ) that was I believe chambered in 8mm mauser. I could be wrong about that though as I've been wrong on other things, you know, in my life.

Well, I did some checking and yup there was a prototype that was chambered in 7.62x54, but it never went into production. And the round I was thinking of for the G-43 was the 7.92 mm Kurz. Not the 8mm mauser. So, there ya go.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.   7.62X39 174 grain match king 24.7 grains of vvn 130 www.hunt101.com/img/313727.JPG Wow, thats pretty good for 25 yds.

Thats 7 rounds at 100 yards. But it's from a heavy vaminter shillen barrel on a mauser action.

Rem 7.62x39 125gr SP has more energy and 230fps more velocity at 300 yards than .30-30 150gr SP.

Handloads for the .30-30 in a Savage etc with pointed bullets would significantly outclass the 7.62x39 at all ranges but they aren't what most people shoot.


My favorite 7.62x39 load is the Georgia Arms 125gr Ballistic Tip.

BTW, Valmet rifle barrels are .308 instead of .311 like most AK's.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yea but sks org came in 7.62x54r, theres a thread that was here yesterday about a guy taking down a chargin bear with a AK NO WAY!!! They came in 7.62 x 54 originally???? WOW, I never read that anywhere!!! Man that would have been awesome! A lot like the German G-43 ( I think that was it. ) that was I believe chambered in 8mm mauser. I could be wrong about that though as I've been wrong on other things, you know, in my life. Well, I did some checking and yup there was a prototype that was chambered in 7.62x54, but it never went into production. And the round I was thinking of for the G-43 was the 7.92 mm Kurz. Not the 8mm mauser. So, there ya go.

IIRC the SKS-41 was put on hold to concentrate on ironing out the production of the PTRS-41 14.5mm anti tank rifle.  The SKS-45 is a refinement of the SKS-41 & PTRS-41.

On paper the 7.62x39 & .30-30 are close, with .30-30 having a slight edge in power.  
The pointed boat tail bullets of the 7.62x39 are more aerodynamic & retain velocity better.  
The .30-30 is hampered by the need to use round or flat nose bulltets & thin brass.  Lower max pressure both because of the action type usually used ("springy" lever actions) & thinner case head & walls.  Even in a bolt action you can't really soup up the .30-30 without causing a kaBoom.  The cartridge is some 50 years older than 7.62x39 after all.

Quoted: I thought I read somewhere that the 7.69 is sililar to a 30.06 and thats why many hunt using an SKS with a 5 round mag.

?

Quoted: Quoted: While you can buy wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain boar busters,you can get 30/30 in 170 grain high Vel!!! It's like saying you can load the .45 Colt to vel that compare to the 45/75,true up close,but distance will go to the 45/75! The same goes for the AK round verses the 30/30 heavy rifle round!!! Bob 1) I've never heard of a .45-75. Do you perhaps mean .45-70? 2) It's .30-30, .45-70, etc., not 30/30 or 45/70.

Yep you are sure enough right  30-30 and 45-70!  But you know there is a 45-90,a Quiqly 45-100 and so forth!!!


I degress and to bed I go!!!!


Thanks    Bob

Quoted: Quoted: 1) I've never heard of a .45-75. Do you perhaps mean .45-70?

There is indeed a .45-75 caliber. It was available in the Winchester model 1876 lever-action rifle.

For those who aren't familiar with it, the 1876 is the odd duck of Winchester lever-actions. It was Winchester's first attempt at a lever-action rifle chambering full-power rifle rounds, and was quickly supplanted by the much superior 1886.

www.bar-w.com/1876v04.html

www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976619493.htm

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While you can buy wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain boar busters,you can get 30/30 in 170 grain high Vel!!! It's like saying you can load the .45 Colt to vel that compare to the 45/75,true up close,but distance will go to the 45/75! The same goes for the AK round verses the 30/30 heavy rifle round!!! Bob 1) I've never heard of a .45-75. Do you perhaps mean .45-70? 2) It's .30-30, .45-70, etc., not 30/30 or 45/70. Yep you are sure enough right  30-30 and 45-70!  But you know there is a 45-90,a Quiqly 45-100 and so forth!!! I degress and to bed I go!!!! Thanks    Bob

I'm familiar with those rounds, yep. Heck, we own a .45-70! If I had the money, I'd own a Sharps clone chambered for .45-120.

I occasionally load 150g fmj spire points for my Marlin 336 30/30, load them single shot for target practice. Also have killed deer with a 150g spire soft point using it for the first shot backed up with five soft points. I'll make that a project later this year, to load up 150g sps and 150 fmjs and try them at 150 yds.

rk

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Show me a 7.62 x 39 that can throw a 170 grain bullet before saying they are similar.   7.62X39 174 grain match king 24.7 grains of vvn 130 www.hunt101.com/img/313727.JPG Wow, thats pretty good for 25 yds. Thats 7 rounds at 100 yards. But it's from a heavy vaminter shillen barrel on a mauser action.

Surely you have chronograph readings on this load. What are they?
How long is the barrel?

Speaking of feral hogs, I might be hunting some a bit later in the day with a friend, and bringing my AK along for the ride. Which ammo should I bring along? We won't hunting them for meat, from what I've been told, this will be a pest control hunt. I have some Wolf hollowpoints, as well as some soft points, but wouldn't FMJ be just as effective at killing the little suckers?

-Storm

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While you can buy wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain boar busters,you can get 30/30 in 170 grain high Vel!!! It's like saying you can load the .45 Colt to vel that compare to the 45/75,true up close,but distance will go to the 45/75! The same goes for the AK round verses the 30/30 heavy rifle round!!! Bob 1) I've never heard of a .45-75. Do you perhaps mean .45-70? 2) It's .30-30, .45-70, etc., not 30/30 or 45/70. Yep you are sure enough right  30-30 and 45-70!  But you know there is a 45-90,a Quiqly 45-100 and so forth!!! I degress and to bed I go!!!! Thanks    Bob

I own a 45-120 quigly rifle, that my grandfather bought for me as a gift a few years ago.

That thing does not fail to impress

Quoted: Speaking of feral hogs, I might be hunting some a bit later in the day with a friend, and bringing my AK along for the ride. Which ammo should I bring along? We won't hunting them for meat, from what I've been told, this will be a pest control hunt. I have some Wolf hollowpoints, as well as some soft points, but wouldn't FMJ be just as effective at killing the little suckers? -Storm

FMJ is like stabbing the bastards with a pencil. Hollowpoint is like stabbing them with a the fist of God. You decide.

From what little experience I've had with my WASR-10, it seems like it'd make a good brush gun. Especially if you find a bunch of hogs. The faster you can get off follow-up shots and kill several of them, the better. Just don't wound one and move on to the next, because a pissed off pig is the last thing you want, much less several of them.