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Posted: 8/9/2011 6:55:04 AM EDT
Because this is what the government needs to be focusing on these days:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44073788/ns/politics-white_house/

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 6:58:26 AM EDT
Manufacturers will get around these regulations by making smaller/lighter duty trucks. Consumers will get around that by buying more trucks for thier fleet to maintain their capacity, costing them more money which they will pass on to thier customers, all while producing more pollution then they did before.

Ah the wonders of regulation.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:12:56 AM EDT
It will probably just make shipping companies more likely to keep what they have now on the road longer instead of replacing it when they'd like to since that new stuff will probably be more pricey.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:21:01 AM EDT
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:21:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Manufacturers will get around these regulations by making smaller/lighter duty trucks. Consumers will get around that by buying more trucks for thier fleet to maintain their capacity, costing them more money which they will pass on to thier customers, all while producing more pollution then they did before.

Ah the wonders of regulation.


Pretty much.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:50:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


I'd like to see neither at this point, since we are in a deep recession / mild depression. You don't pull out of something like this by making things harder for business.

LC
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 7:57:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.

I would love to see an obesity tax. It is the fatties that are clogging the roads, using too much fuel and eating more than their fair share. Plus fatties stink, are ill-tempered and get in the way.

PETROLEUM IS ALREADY TAXED. It is government that needs to learn to do more with less.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 8:15:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Manufacturers will get around these regulations by making smaller/lighter duty trucks. Consumers will get around that by buying more trucks for thier fleet to maintain their capacity, costing them more money which they will pass on to thier customers, all while producing more pollution then they did before.

Ah the wonders of regulation.


Have you ever operated a fleet of trucks? I'm thinking not.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 8:27:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 8:27:58 AM EDT by R2point0]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.

I would love to see an obesity tax. It is the fatties that are clogging the roads, using too much fuel and eating more than their fair share. Plus fatties stink, are ill-tempered and get in the way.

PETROLEUM IS ALREADY TAXED. It is government that needs to learn to do more with less.


I'm in favor, as long as it's implemented along with an Asshole Tax. Fatties by the pound, assholes by the word.

Can you guess which will bring in more revenue?
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 8:29:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.

I would love to see an obesity tax. It is the fatties that are clogging the roads, using too much fuel and eating more than their fair share. Plus fatties stink, are ill-tempered and get in the way.

PETROLEUM IS ALREADY TAXED. It is government that needs to learn to do more with less.


I'm in favor, as long as it's implemented along with an Asshole Tax. Fatties by the pound, assholes by the word.

Can you guess which will bring in more revenue?

Michael Moore would become a pauper. Good call

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 9:23:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


yeah, fuck the market, and seriously, we could be like europe, and pay3-4 dollars TAX so the leftists can steal more of our money.

How about less government for a change?

TXL
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 11:53:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


yeah, fuck the market, and seriously, we could be like europe, and pay3-4 dollars TAX so the leftists can steal more of our money.

How about less government for a change?

TXL


"The Market" doesn't rebuild crumbling bridges. That money has to come from somewhere.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 11:58:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


yeah, fuck the market, and seriously, we could be like europe, and pay3-4 dollars TAX so the leftists can steal more of our money.

How about less government for a change?

TXL


"The Market" doesn't rebuild crumbling bridges. That money has to come from somewhere.


Like with all of the taxes they are already taking from us?
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 12:26:36 PM EDT
Taxes ought to be tied to their use. People who use roads should pay to build roads. This concept is good for the free market because it allows market forces to act on tax revenues. If people take the train or fly then taxes to pay for those activities ought to be assessed.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 12:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Taxes ought to be tied to their use. People who use roads should pay to build roads. This concept is good for the free market because it allows market forces to act on tax revenues. If people take the train or fly then taxes to pay for those activities ought to be assessed.

And that is why infrastructure is falling apart. Plenty of revenue, only it doesn't go to the function generating it. For example, out of the 20 cents or so per gallon of Texas State Motor Vehicle Fuel Tax, 5 cents goes to education. A full 25% yet the students are getting dumber.


Link Posted: 8/9/2011 12:45:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


yeah, fuck the market, and seriously, we could be like europe, and pay3-4 dollars TAX so the leftists can steal more of our money.

How about less government for a change?

TXL


"The Market" doesn't rebuild crumbling bridges. That money has to come from somewhere.


You are correct. But our gas taxes aren't going for that already, you want to give them MORE to build more stupid fucking light rail, and have pay a toll to use the bridge?

TXL
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 12:51:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.


yeah, fuck the market, and seriously, we could be like europe, and pay3-4 dollars TAX so the leftists can steal more of our money.

How about less government for a change?

TXL


"The Market" doesn't rebuild crumbling bridges. That money has to come from somewhere.


And you trust the government to dedicate that money to a specific use? Like they did with Social Security and a whole host of other taxes that were supposed to go to specific items?

What world do you live in?

LC
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 12:57:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:03:02 PM EDT
I own an electrical contracting company and this is the only part that effects me...

Gasoline-powered heavy-duty pickups and vans will have to cut consumption by 10 percent, or by 15 percent if the vehicles run on diesel fuel.


My current gas vans get 10mpg and the diesels get 13. So by new standards, I can get 11mpg and 15mpg.

How much extra is this going to cost me in 3 years when a couple of the trucks are upgraded? To be honest, it's so miniscule, it better be nothing. Big rigs and Semi-s are going to get hit hard by this though, and it makes me wonder where in the blue hell they pulled 23% out of?
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:08:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2011 1:09:03 PM EDT by Herc]
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Glider kits just became 100000x more popular.... to be installed and not reported.


I'm sure they will outlaw Gliders at some point.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:15:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Herc:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Glider kits just became 100000x more popular.... to be installed and not reported.


I'm sure they will outlaw Gliders at some point.

What are Gliders?
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:

Originally Posted By Herc:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Glider kits just became 100000x more popular.... to be installed and not reported.


I'm sure they will outlaw Gliders at some point.

What are Gliders?


You can buy just a cab/chassis without an engine, it has all the air lines and electrical to hook up whatever engine you have. When your tractor is worn out, you can just swap the old motor into a new one.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:21:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 1:51:31 PM EDT
Must be so nice to work (ha) for .gov
and just wave your magic wand and now big trucks get 23% better fuel economy

no additional R & D, no emissions, no engineering, no reliability, just wave your magic wand.

Christ on a stick, if it could be done, it would be done.

idiots.

let's kill the economy, one step at a time.

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 3:47:02 PM EDT
Rome is burning and this is what BoBo the libtard does??
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:24:18 PM EDT
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.

Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:45:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:51:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.


You think they would oppose it? Political suicide.

You have a lot to learn.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:52:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.


You think they would oppose it? Political suicide.

You have a lot to learn.


Businessmen oppose things that they don't like all the time. Sometimes they even win.
Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:52:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Herc:
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:

Originally Posted By Herc:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Glider kits just became 100000x more popular.... to be installed and not reported.


I'm sure they will outlaw Gliders at some point.

What are Gliders?


You can buy just a cab/chassis without an engine, it has all the air lines and electrical to hook up whatever engine you have. When your tractor is worn out, you can just swap the old motor into a new one.


This and just keeping a pre-EGR truck until it absolutely falls apart. The solutions they've come up with to meet the standards are horrible.


Link Posted: 8/9/2011 4:53:07 PM EDT
The industry will make it happen.

The price of fuel alone is driving better Aero trucks.

You see a whole lot more stuff on the highway with Drag reducing stuff.

I'm interested to see what strange Aerodynamic design Freightliner comes out with next.

Todays trucks also have much more power than they did in the past. I wonder if this will shift production more towards autoshift trucks with 375HP.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:47:52 AM EDT
2 observations:

1) The industry is for it because of forced turnover; they believe that the mileage mandate on manufacturer's will be followed by fleet mandates. Right now fleets are stretching what they have and putting off replacements. The industry is hoping that fleets will be compelled to replace vehicles - more profit for them.

2) Doesn't this do away with the "chassis+drivetrain" model of large trucks? My understanding is that fleet buyers will specify a chassis and then choose a drivetrain to go into it. But it sounds like they will meet these requirements using aerodynamics AND engine controls. Will that make the heavy truck industry more like cars/light trucks? You buy the car with limited engine choices, all by the same manufacturer.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:54:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.


You think they would oppose it? Political suicide.

You have a lot to learn.


Businessmen oppose things that they don't like all the time. Sometimes they even win.

This. They win more than they lose.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I don't think it will really be that big a deal.

I'd rather see a Petroleum tax than a CAFE standard though.

I would love to see an obesity tax. It is the fatties that are clogging the roads, using too much fuel and eating more than their fair share. Plus fatties stink, are ill-tempered and get in the way.

PETROLEUM IS ALREADY TAXED. It is government that needs to learn to do more with less.

Exactly.
But applying logic and math to teh idiots in DC is like asking Einstein how he 'feels'.

Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:20:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:34:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.


You think they would oppose it? Political suicide.

You have a lot to learn.


Businessmen oppose things that they don't like all the time. Sometimes they even win.

Not when zero comes over for a photo-op. You have much to learn.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:47:10 AM EDT
They could damn near get the 15% mileage increase on diesel vehciles on 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks if they rolled back the recent emission standards.

Should say something when a 10 year old diesel gets better mileage than the newer ones.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:48:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OregonShooter:
The industry will make it happen.

The price of fuel alone is driving better Aero trucks.

You see a whole lot more stuff on the highway with Drag reducing stuff.

I'm interested to see what strange Aerodynamic design Freightliner comes out with next.

Todays trucks also have much more power than they did in the past. I wonder if this will shift production more towards autoshift trucks with 375HP.


Too bad all that shit cost money to research/build/apply to a vehicle.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 6:36:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The industry was all for it, judging by CEOs and executives from the truck industry and their comments on the radio.


You think they would oppose it? Political suicide.

You have a lot to learn.


Businessmen oppose things that they don't like all the time. Sometimes they even win.


Why would they oppose it? New rules will be out shortly to force older trucks off the road by some date after this is implemented. They then get to sell a butt load of new trucks/engines.

Winning they are.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:39:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Glider kits just became 100000x more popular.... to be installed and not reported.
Yes they will....there's a "G" in the VIN.

Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:45:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 7:53:54 PM EDT by Sharpshooter]
Dont worry the Government will help carriers to move to the newer more fuel effiecient trucks by simply having FMCSA introduce new stricter safet standards that the older models cannot meet, making the purchase of the newer trucks necessary.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:51:49 PM EDT
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:54:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.
The weight of all that would cut into payload....not to mention this setup would be VERY expensive.

Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:55:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.

What is the improvement of a hybrid's highway mileage over city? Zero? There is your sign. Yes, it would make sense for in-town transport and such systems are being researched.


Link Posted: 8/10/2011 7:58:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OregonShooter:
The industry will make it happen.

The price of fuel alone is driving better Aero trucks.

You see a whole lot more stuff on the highway with Drag reducing stuff.

I'm interested to see what strange Aerodynamic design Freightliner comes out with next.

Todays trucks also have much more power than they did in the past. I wonder if this will shift production more towards autoshift trucks with 375HP.
375 hp ain't much,I'm belting out 455hp,and that's not even high HP territory.

This will run O/Os right outta business.....I sure hope OOIDA jumps on this.

Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:05:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R2point0:


2) Doesn't this do away with the "chassis+drivetrain" model of large trucks? My understanding is that fleet buyers will specify a chassis and then choose a drivetrain to go into it. But it sounds like they will meet these requirements using aerodynamics AND engine controls. Will that make the heavy truck industry more like cars/light trucks? You buy the car with limited engine choices, all by the same manufacturer.

That's already happening. Caterpillar is out of the road diesel market and PACCAR (Peterbilt and Kenworth), International, and Freightliner all make their own engines.

The Detroit Diesel DD15 is a really nice engine, as is the new PACCAR MX.

-p.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:11:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.


You do understand that with semi's it's not about mpg's but ton/miles per gallon of fuel, right?


If these jokers in .gov were serious about improving commercial truck fuel efficiency, they'd loosen both GVW and OAL restrictions.

FYI - the most fuel efficient tractor-trailer combos in the world are the Australian truck-trains.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:20:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 8:25:49 PM EDT
Most of the GVW/OAL restrictions are state regulations and a lot if it has to do with substandard bridges.

But there is a lot of room for improvement there as well.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 1:11:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2011 3:27:03 AM EDT by Matthew_Q]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.

What is the improvement of a hybrid's highway mileage over city? Zero? There is your sign. Yes, it would make sense for in-town transport and such systems are being researched.




What's the improvement of a diesel electric train over a straight diesel train?


ETA: Damnit Keith, I wasted post 26k on YOU? :P
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 1:15:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By futuremodal:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I do wonder if a semi could be made to run like a diesel electric train. Use a smaller diesel and generator in the place of the engine and transmission... then a couple beefy electric motors driving the rear wheels - plenty of space for them there. Combine with some manner of storage so they can capture regenerative energy...

Heck, getting a semi that gets 6-7mpg up to 9-10 would be a HUGE improvement.


You do understand that with semi's it's not about mpg's but ton/miles per gallon of fuel, right?


If these jokers in .gov were serious about improving commercial truck fuel efficiency, they'd loosen both GVW and OAL restrictions.

FYI - the most fuel efficient tractor-trailer combos in the world are the Australian truck-trains.



Yes, but improvements are improvements, are they not? The goal is to burn less fuel for the same job.

And no, I'm not some moron that doesn't understand that more weight requires more work to move it.


MPG is just something more people will understand right off, and when it comes to a semi, it's going to be an average.


Serious question time:

Does fuel economy in MPG widely vary between a relatively light load and a relatively heavy load, given the same tractor/engine?
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