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Posted: 10/4/2004 9:26:02 AM EST
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:27:44 AM EST
Yep.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:28:09 AM EST
Preachin to the choir...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:28:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:29:23 AM EST
Yup.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:30:43 AM EST
but is it really a big deal you teach them how to shoot, then if things ever get really bad you have all the soldiers possible.

If we were surrounded by arabs I would want my sister/wife/GF/mom to know how to shoot.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:31:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.


many would say the same thing about you.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:31:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
but is it really a big deal you teach them how to shoot, then if things ever get really bad you have all the soldiers possible.

If we were surrounded by arabs I would want my sister/wife/GF/mom to know how to shoot.




But not as infantry soldiers.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:32:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:32:43 AM EST by photoman]

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for some woman.



Fixed it.
Just as the battlefield is no place for some men. I can think of a couple women I would rather have watching my back in a firefight over a couple of the guys I know.

opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:32:25 AM EST
In Israel the battlefield is everywhere.

I agree I would not want women on the front line if it can be avoided, but they have taken on the entire Middle East at once. It might be necessary to use every resource available, and keep the women trained and ready if a big war happens again.

Do they have a problem with hippies burning their draft cards or not enlisting in the military there?

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:32:45 AM EST
Israelis agree. Women don't serve in combat in Israel except as fighter pilots. And only because the supreme court said so. IAF didn't want them.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:39:08 AM EST by Hokie]

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.




Unless they are Fembots:

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:37:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.




Unless their Fembots:
www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/6172/photos/fembot2.jpg




Hokie your post is hokey.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:38:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.


many would say the same thing about you.



ouch.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:42:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.


many would say the same thing about you.



ouch.




LOL
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.


many would say the same thing about you.



ouch.



Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:44:08 AM EST
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:51:52 AM EST
Yeah because you need a penis to pull a trigger. It was quite obvious that women couldn't handle it when Russia sent all those female snipers into combat during WW2 and they didn't shoot the living shit out of all those Germans.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:53:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.


riiight.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:54:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:55:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:57:39 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
Different circumstances call for different rules to live by.
Their population is 6.7 million. Not a big pool to pull from.
Got it, c_c?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:55:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.


riiight.




13,421 posts since April 2003. You are wasting your youth on the internet.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:58:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Different circumstances call for different rules to live by.
Their population is 6.7 million. Not a big pool to pull from.
Got it, c_c?




Hey I just made a comment. You can agree or disagree. This is a discussion board after all.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:00:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:
Yeah because you need a penis to pull a trigger. It was quite obvious that women couldn't handle it when Russia sent all those female snipers into combat during WW2 and they didn't shoot the living shit out of all those Germans.



There is a difference between Russian women and “suburban” American women.
Take a farm girl... Russian or American. Chances are she has killed something, probably many things. She is use to death and a hardness of spirit comes from that. Most likely what she has killed she has eaten within 24 hrs. or seen many things die and done quite a bit of hard manual labor.

the closest most "suburban” American women have come to death is when they
have to pick a small piece of rib off a raw chicken breast. Death and food come in plastic. Sweat, killing and death are icky things and not suitable for young American ladies.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:03:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.


riiight.




13,421 posts since April 2003. You are wasting your youth on the internet.


spending an hour a day on here is wasting my life? news to me.
i don't think you want to get into this discussion with me clean_cut, as the topics you've started on here over the past 3 months read like some pathetic, made for tv, lifetime movie.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:06:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.


riiight.




13,421 posts since April 2003. You are wasting your youth on the internet.


spending an hour a day on here is wasting my life? news to me.
i don't think you want to get into this discussion with me clean_cut, as the topics you've started on here over the past 3 months read like some pathetic, made for tv, lifetime movie.



One hour a day, huh?

I wouldn't know what Lifetime is like.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:08:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Absolut spends WAY too much time on the internet.


riiight.




13,421 posts since April 2003. You are wasting your youth on the internet.


spending an hour a day on here is wasting my life? news to me.
i don't think you want to get into this discussion with me clean_cut, as the topics you've started on here over the past 3 months read like some pathetic, made for tv, lifetime movie.




Real life is always stranger than ficton.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:22:35 AM EST
In my platoon, we have three women. I would take any of these ladies over most of the men I know. We got into firefights and they drove through ambushes and fired back like the rest of us (depending on their job as either gunner or driver) One of our female MPs with the badass name of Crystal, kicked the crap out of an Iraqi cilivian who decided to try and grab her. The guy was crying on the ground like a little baby. She got a couple of good hits on his face with her boot. We thought about arresting him (we ran the police station in Balad helping the Iraqi Police and had free will to arrest anyone) but we decided that having the shit kicked out of him by a five foot blonde named Crystal in front of his friends was punishment enough.
Another one of our females was in the gunners position, behind a MK-19 when they were ambushed (this was a different platoon) An AK round hit her forearm, shattered it, travelled into her upper arm and exited through. Some bone fragments hit her in the cheek. She dropped into the vehicle, yelled "I'm hit", stood back up and returned fire towards the direction the rounds were coming from, holding down the butterfly trigger with one hand. She lost the use of her arm.
I read in the Army Times of one female MP who gunned down three to five Iraqis attacking her squad with a SAW.
Yeah, women are of no use on the battlefield
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:27:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:28:21 AM EST by painrx]

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By painrx:
Yeah because you need a penis to pull a trigger. It was quite obvious that women couldn't handle it when Russia sent all those female snipers into combat during WW2 and they didn't shoot the living shit out of all those Germans.



There is a difference between Russian women and “suburban” American women.
Take a farm girl... Russian or American. Chances are she has killed something, probably many things. She is use to death and a hardness of spirit comes from that. Most likely what she has killed she has eaten within 24 hrs. or seen many things die and done quite a bit of hard manual labor.

the closest most "suburban” American women have come to death is when they
have to pick a small piece of rib off a raw chicken breast. Death and food come in plastic. Sweat, killing and death are icky things and not suitable for young American ladies.



Riiiiiiight, like there aren't a huge amount of manginas running around here in the states also. Hell, there are a shitload just on this board.

Intestinal fortitude depends on the person, not the sex organs.

Once again I'm just going to sit here and
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:30:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Israelis agree. Women don't serve in combat in Israel except as fighter pilots. And only because the supreme court said so. IAF didn't want them.





Ding ding ding!


It's amazing how much time people will spend argueing about something that is not an issue.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:37:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 11:41:43 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:44:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 11:46:52 AM EST by Swordslinger]

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.




Very, very True!!!

I dont obsess over manley looking women anyway. I like my women to vacume while wearing an apron and high heals, just like on "Leave it to Beaver". My wife brings me the paper, and my pipe and slippers as soon as I walk through the door.

Barefoot and pregnant!

Flame on feminazis!!!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:50:04 AM EST
Nice assumption Hun. I'm glad you're able to foresee the future of public opinion. I'm sure there is a job in D.C. being made for you right now.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:52:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 11:52:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 11:53:22 AM EST by Swordslinger]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Yeah, women are of no use on the battlefield


Yeah, well, if you want to see public support for the War in Iraq evaporate like the dew on the lawn this morning, just let 'Crystal' or anyone like her in US uniform get captured, and put on a grainy videotape on her knees in front of a group of masked men.

It would undo us to see an American male soldier in that position, but it would KILL us to see an American female soldier in that same condition.

Do you doubt that?

Then you don't know America.

And once that happens, there will be a run on capturing American female soldiers to accomplish on American televisions what our enemies cannot accomplish in the field.

Eric The(Realistic)Hun



On a more serious note, I fully agree with the Hun!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:01:23 PM EST
Didn't this already happen during OIF I? The transport column geting ambushed, several soldiers including females captured?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:04:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Pics of women and guns and combat gear may be fun to look at, but in reality the battlefield is no place for a woman.




At what point during your military career did you come to this conclusion? I served with several women that I would gladly go to war with during my short 22+ years.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:08:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 12:16:44 PM EST by guardian855]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Yeah, women are of no use on the battlefield


Yeah, well, if you want to see public support for the War in Iraq evaporate like the dew on the lawn this morning, just let 'Crystal' or anyone like her in US uniform get captured, and put on a grainy videotape on her knees in front of a group of masked men.

It would undo us to see an American male soldier in that position, but it would KILL us to see an American female soldier in that same condition.

Do you doubt that?

Then you don't know America.

And once that happens, there will be a run on capturing American female soldiers to accomplish on American televisions what our enemies cannot accomplish in the field.

Eric The(Realistic)Hun



So we should let the enemy dictate who we and who we don't send into battle?

And if you guys like it or not, there are thousands of females on the battlefield right now. They might not be in the infantry, but that doesn't matter on the ground in Iraq, they are all in combat. The females in the Military Police, and Intelligence, Truckers, and other MOSs right now are trading fire with the enemy. Instead of dissing them and telling them that they are in a man's role, maybe we should support them.

I still stand by my original statement, I would rather stand with the three females that were in my platoon than a lot of people I know, inculding some of the "fighting" men that's over there now (not all of them of course, but I know a select few men and women who I still wonder to this day how they got in the military).

And I don't care if the Israelis don't send women into the front, I don't base my opinions regarding our military on what Israel or any other country does. I would rather fight with a female soldier from the US at my side than with a soldier from France or Germany.

Crystal and I had also discussed the kidnapping thing while we were over there.. She wasn't going to let herself be captured. No Iraqi was going to take her alive.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:16:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 12:17:19 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:20:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Different circumstances call for different rules to live by.
Their population is 6.7 million. Not a big pool to pull from.
Got it, c_c?




Hey I just made a comment. You can agree or disagree. This is a discussion board after all.



I suspect there are a few Israeli women who would disagree. And in the end it makes no difference what ANY of us thinks. I see it as them doing what must be done. The suicide bombers (men and women) and other Pali bad guys don't give a shit what gender the Jew they hope to kill is.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:26:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 12:29:12 PM EST by Hokie]
I think the military is NO PLACE for SOCIAL EXPERIMENTATION. I'd keep this simple. If a woman can pass the EXACT same training requirements and fit tests as are required by men, then let em fight. If a woman can power her way through that, then she can most likely hold her own.

Period.

...which reminds me of another point. Physical limitations aside, women do complicate things however in the military with regards to menstration, pregnancy, and of course the undeniable FACT that women are more emotionally driven then men.

There's always exception to every rule, but as a whole, I'd say women would be better suited for things in the military other than front line combat.

Unless it's Xena - Warrior Princess.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:30:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I think the military is NO PLACE for SOCIAL EXPERIMENTATION. I'd keep this simple. If a woman can pass the EXACT same training requirements and fit tests as are required by men, then let em fight. If a woman can power her way through that, then she can most likely hold her own.

Period.

...which reminds me of another point. Physical limitations aside, women do complicate things however in the military with regards to menstration, pregnancy, and of course the undeniable FACT that women are more emotionally driven then men.

There's always exception to every rule, but as a whole, I'd say women would be better suited for things in the military other than front line combat.





Very well put.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:32:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 12:32:49 PM EST by AZ-K9]

Somerton sergeant receives national honor

BY JACOB LOPEZ, STAFF WRITER
Jul 21, 2004

Somerton resident Mary Herrera said she didn't deserve it.

But the U.S. government thought she did.

Regardless, the League of United Latin American Citizens awarded her the "Excellence in Military Service Award" on July 8 in San Antonio for sacrificing usage in one of her arms to keep her unit safe under fire in Iraq.

As a sergeant for the 855th Military Police Company of the Arizona National Guard, Herrera was one of 11 Latin American military service members who received national honors for their services to the United States.

Herrera, 23, is a Purple Heart recipient who nearly lost her right arm after being hit by two AK-47 machine gun bullets in an ambush in Iraq last year.

Eleven Latin American servicemen and women who served in different military departments were nominated across the country. Herrera received the award for the Army National Guard, contending for it with a three-star general, she said.

"I don't think I deserve it in the first place," Herrera said. "It's nice to receive awards, but I don't think anybody humble really thinks that they deserve something like this.”

Herrera said Maj. Gen. David Rataczak, of the Arizona National Guard, wrote a letter to the league nominating her for the award, including her biography and what happened on Nov. 8, 2003, when she was wounded. Herrera added that she had no idea she was nominated for the award until she received it.

In the letter Rataczak sent to the league, it mentions that Herrera was on a "trainee transportation mission to Abu Ghraib Prison" near Ramadi, Iraq, when her convoy was ambushed.

Herrera was the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon gunner for the lead Humvee in the platoon and started to return fire as the convoy units "sped through the ‘kill zone,’ ” the letter states.

Upon entering a safer area where each of the convoy vehicles provided their situation reports of what happened, Herrera started to feel disoriented and noticed a loss of sensation in her right arm. It was later found that Herrera had been hit after firing about 10 rounds of ammunition, the letter states.

Herrera attempted to let another soldier know that she had been hit, but she "maintained positive control" of her weapon to help protect her fellow members during the final moments of the ambush, the letter states.

The convoy rushed Herrera to the nearest emergency medical service room, which was about five miles away. She spent about 25 minutes in the emergency room, where doctors discovered she was hit by two AK-47 rounds that broke two bones in her forearm and pierced her biceps. Once pins and rods were placed in her forearm and she was stabilized, she was flown by helicopter to Fallujah, Iraq, where doctors were sure she was going to lose her arm.

Rataczak wrote in the letter that doctors said Herrera was the bravest person they had ever seen. It stated that she did not complain or cry, even though she received no painkiller for more than 30 minutes after she was shot.

After returning to the United States, she was awarded the Purple Heart for "wounds received as a result of enemy or hostile action." Herrera did not lose her arm due to "extraordinary surgery work," and she received numerous surgeries, skin grafts and physical therapy at Brooke Army Medical Center in Fort Sam Houston, Texas.

Doctors do not believe Herrera will regain full use of her arm, and she will not be able to continue serving as a military police specialist, the letter states.

Rataczak said in the letter that she "a true example of a modern citizen-soldier."

"Although small in stature, she is motivated, loyal, physically and mentally capable, disciplined and proficient, courageous and always a professional," Rataczak said in the letter.

Herrera said she plans to attend the University of Eastern Texas, where she will major in social work and minor in criminal psychology. Because of her story and her example, the state of Arizona has recently passed a bill in her name that will authorize tuition waiver scholarships to National Guard men and women who received a Purple Heart or were medically discharged due to injuries while serving in the military after Sept. 11, 2001.

"This bill is affectionately known as the Mary Herrera Bill,” the letter stated.

Now that Herrera is back home in Somerton, she said she is more thankful than ever to be an American because of all the privileges and freedoms Americans enjoy daily.

She said after living in Iraq for nearly eight months, she appreciates things like running water, flushing toilets and even the ability to vote.

"I appreciate the United States more than ever," she said. "Just the simple things in life, you appreciate so much more."

In addition to the Purple Heart, Herrera has received other awards such as the army Reserve Component Achievement Medal, the National Defense Service Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal. She also received the Armed Forces Service Medal with "M" device, an Army Service Ribbon, an Arizona Service Ribbon and an Overseas Service Bar. She also has obtained a sharpshooter qualification for Badge Rifle M16s and an expert qualification for Badge Pistols.


yumasun.com/artman/publish/articles/story_12190.shtml
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:34:17 PM EST
Mary Herrera = Exception
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:34:43 PM EST
Israel is a small country bordered by enemies on all sides. The Israelis have no choice but to use all its resources to its fullest.
Don't let anyone kid you, the Izzy women are tough. Not like 90% of the "give me everything cause I deserve it" women here in the States.

I don't think women belong on the front lines either. But the Israeli's really don't have much choice.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:40:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 12:43:28 PM EST by guardian855]
The female soldier I was talking about that got hit in the arm was Mary Herrera.

The article says she was the M249 gunner, but she actually was behind the Mk-19, we strapped the M249 to the ammo can as a back up weapon.
And I believe she was a specialist, not a sergeant at the time.

That's cool, I never saw that article.

She never came back to the company after they flew her out.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:45:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:50:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Mary Herrera = Exception



Only because pussy ass bitches ever-so-mantastic people like you can't stand to see your sperm receptacles do what you thought was a "man" only job. Soon it's going to be Rosie the Warrior instead of the Riveter. And then you can all suck your own sperm down.

Suck it up bitches, vaginas are in the sandbox.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:52:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Yup.

+1
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:58:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:00:51 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
Please.
99.999999% of women can't even LOAD a Mk19 or a .50 cal.
Why make the effort to find that rare one that can?
What's the payoff from such a search?

A lone female who can barely do the job that most men do with ease?



My Company Gunny was in Kosovo, in 2002. Female soldier, up in the ring-mount, "manning" the Mk19 rolled up.
He asked to see if she could load the weapon...
She could not.
She didn't have the strength to pull back the charging handles.

Nope. Why was she there, if she couldn't do her job?
Even if she could do her job, why was she there?
Not to help achieve victory.


There is absolutely NO benefit to having females in combat.
There is no shortage of men.
It's all a big lie.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:04:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By NSFJojo:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Mary Herrera = Exception



Only because pussy ass bitches ever-so-mantastic people like you can't stand to see your sperm receptacles do what you thought was a "man" only job. Soon it's going to be Rosie the Warrior instead of the Riveter. And then you can all suck your own sperm down.

Suck it up bitches, vaginas are in the sandbox.



You mean ROSIE is gonna take on MALE CHARACTERISTICS?!?!?!?!

I only have two words to offer up in the un-ending debate of U.S. female troops in combat.

"Jessica Lynch"

(ok... I can't say it in 2 words...)

Look at how this country fawned over this bleeder because she was taken POW, and then heaped the praise and medals on her for the actions of another, MALE soldier!!

It was an insult to every MAN who has ever served in combat. (One of which, I am NOT).

Women have their place in society. Just like men have their place. Wealthy people have their place. Poor people have their place. The Clergy have their place. School teachers theirs. Police, firefighters, postal workers, truckers, Legislators. waitresses, et al.

THIS FUCKIN SOCIETY HAS BEEN DRAGGED DOWN THE DRAIN BY PEOPLE INSISTING THEY ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE, SIMPLY TO "FEEL GOOD". QUALIFY YOURSELF, BY EDUCATION, AND JOB EXPERIENCE AND BETTER YOUR LOT IN LIFE. BUT THE FACT THAT A WOMAN CAN HOLD A RIFLE = WORTHY TO SERVE ON THE FRONT LINES IS THE SAME AS A TEACHER TELLING ME I MUST LOCK MY GUNS UP AT HOME, BECAUSE JOHNNY TALKS ABOUT THEM IN SCHOOL AND IT IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT OR LIFE VIEWS THEY WISH TO INSTILL IN THEIR STUDENTS!!!

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