Combatives Guru Making Hand-to-Hand Combat Knife

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Combatives Guru Making Hand-to-Hand Combat Knife (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:19:20 AM EDT

The founder of the U.S. Army Combatives is creating a new fighting knife designed specifically for hand-to-hand combat.

Matt Larsen, who is the director of the combatives program at Fort Benning, Ga., has teamed up with knife makers Bill Harsey and Chris Reeve in a private venture to produce the LHR Combat Knife, a project that will be marketed by Gerber Legendary Blades next July.

The current prototype features a 7-inch blade designed for thrusting and a molded plastic sheath with a custom "weapons retention" thumb release. The sheath will allow soldiers to access the knife quickly but prevent an attacker from snatching it away in a fight.

The majority of soldiers purchase and carry their own fixed-blade knives into battle, but few if any, have ever used one in a fight, Larsen said, based on 900 documented accounts of hand-to-hand fights in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"I have been training people to fight with knives" as part of the combatives program, but most knife-and-sheath combinations soldiers carry aren't designed for close-in fighting, Larsen told Army Times on Oct. 7 at Association of the United States Army's Annual Meeting.

"There is not a knife out there that fits the bill. The knife didn't exist; the sheath didn't exist."

This realization prompted Larsen to team up with Harsey and Reeve on the effort three years ago. Harsey and Reeve are well-known in the knife community and have designed other custom blades such as the Yarborough, a robust sheath knife awarded to soldiers after they complete the Special Forces qualification course.

While it is intended as a fighting knife, the LHR's 3/16 inch thick blade is robust enough to hold up to field use.

"It is primarily designed for thrusting, but soldiers being soldiers, it has got to be designed for some utility," Larsen said.

The blade material will be a special alloy made by Crucible Specialty Tool Steel in Syracuse, N.Y., that's designed for rugged use, Harsey said.

The knife will also be available in a 5-inch blade model.

The main goal of the project is to make a quality knife that most soldiers can afford, Larsen said. The plan now is to market the knife for $150 to $200.

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:21:04 AM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:22:08 AM EDT

[#2]

Cool. Looks like a good design. Harsey is a good guy, I talked with him briefly on the Internet once a few years ago.

If I were going to design a knife, it would look something like this:

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/knife.jpg

Or like this:

i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll141/Bob1984_photo/Bowie3.jpg

I'm not a knife maker. I just used a MS Paint-type program and came up with these just now.

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:32:44 AM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:44:27 AM EDT

[#4]

sweet hope gerber doesnt fuck it up with soft steel.

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:47:09 AM EDT

[#5]

that's a very nice looking knife. if it becomes available for <$200 i'll buy one.

Posted: 10/8/2008 6:50:47 AM EDT

[#6]

Nice blade.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:00:25 AM EDT

[#7]

Good looking knife. I would hate to be in a knife fight though.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:09:25 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Good looking knife. I would hate to be in a knife fight though.

In a knife fight, chances are good that both parties are going to get hurt...

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:17:07 AM EDT

[#9]

Everybody who comes out with a special knife insists that "nothing like it ever existed".
Yet, somehow, they all look remarkably like any other knife out there.

Nothing new but the name on the blade and the guy getting the cash.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:17:24 AM EDT

[#10]

I'll still take Bob Kasper/Al Polkowski for the win.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:20:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Everybody who comes out with a special knife insists that "nothing like it ever existed".
Yet, somehow, they all look remarkably like any other knife out there.

Nothing new but the name on the blade and the guy getting the cash.

Agreed. Plus, there's a little known knifemaker by the name of Mad Dog that probably has a couple of blades that are also good for fighting and everyday soldier use.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:25:51 AM EDT

[#12]

Looks like any number of knives already available. What's different?

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:28:04 AM EDT

[#13]

Read this

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:29:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good looking knife. I would hate to be in a knife fight though.

In a knife fight, chances are good that both parties are going to get hurt...

First rule of knife fighting... Everybody gets cut.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:31:12 AM EDT

[#15]

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:33:43 AM EDT

[#16]

Looks like a nice knife.
But Gerber will FIU.

I still have not found anything to replace
my trusty KA-BAR........

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:34:25 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
webpages.charter.net/d_nye/bang/hissatsu.jpg

pretty but there is nothing to protect your fingers

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:43:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good looking knife. I would hate to be in a knife fight though.

In a knife fight, chances are good that both parties are going to get hurt...

Winner goes to ER/surgery, loser goes to grave..

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:47:46 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Everybody who comes out with a special knife insists that "nothing like it ever existed".
Yet, somehow, they all look remarkably like any other knife out there.

Nothing new but the name on the blade and the guy getting the cash.

Agreed. Plus, there's a little known knifemaker by the name of Mad Dog that probably has a couple of blades that are also good for fighting and everyday soldier use.

Not so little known since "the rogue warrior" started referencing them in his books, and definitely not economical.

BOT, I like it. Reminds me of an Entrek design.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:49:44 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

The majority of soldiers purchase and carry their own fixed-blade knives into battle,

There is a long tradition in this country, and in its fight for independence, of individual soldiers outfitting themselves.

But can someone explain why, with all the f***ing money thrown around for weapons systems development, WHY we can't send our soldiers out with a decent fighting knife? Or is this just marketing hype?

ETA: not capnrob97, the company that wrote the copy capnrob97 quoted.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:53:38 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Looks like a nice knife.
But Gerber will FIU.

I still have not found anything to replace
my trusty KA-BAR........

I brought my tanto blade KA-BAR to Iraq. The cheap button on the sheath had came unbuttoned and it fell out somewhere. I'm still pissed that I lost it.

But I'm not seeing anything about that knife that would make it better than the tanto blade KA-BAR. Except maybe the sheath.

Posted: 10/8/2008 7:58:57 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The majority of soldiers purchase and carry their own fixed-blade knives into battle,

There is a long tradition in this country, and in its fight for independence, of individual soldiers outfitting themselves.

But can someone explain why, with all the f***ing money thrown around for weapons systems development, WHY we can't send our soldiers out with a decent fighting knife? Or is this just marketing hype?

ETA: not capnrob97, the company that wrote the copy capnrob97 quoted.

Knives and bayonets just aren't considered important as weapons. As mentioned in the article, the vast majority of knife users will never be in a knife fight.

I haven't seen very many knife designs that I would consider to be much of an improvement over the tried and true Ka-Bar for military purposes. I would imagine that the military tends to think the same way.

I know that the military often won't stop using an item unless they find another item that is dramatically superior to the current issue item and available for an equal or lesser price.

A lot of things are issued just because there isn't anything better available for the same price. This is the reason, by and large, why the M16 and the M9 (pistol) will be issued for a long time to come.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:00:25 AM EDT

[#23]

I don't see the point behind expensive ass knives other than the collecting/craftsmanship. I carry a $150 Benchmade folder which is bordering on absurdly expensive. If/when I lose it I'll probably replace it with a $100 Benchmade which to me seems like the most you should spend on a folder. If I wanted a fixed blade I'd buy at most something like a Benchmade Nimravus, Gerber LMF II or a Sog Seal Pup or similar cheapish fixed blade. Why spend a shit ton of money on a knife that you're likely to destroy or lose in field use.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:02:58 AM EDT

[#24]

I like the design, but I really think it should have a serated portion on it.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:03:10 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

The handle is plastic and will slip out of your hands when there is but a little water/blood on them, the blade is cheap chinese steel that will break easy and will lose its edge easily.

You wouldn't want to jump out of plane with a chinese parachute, so why would you want to defend yourself with a chinese knife?

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:06:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Combat Gurus of various sorts have been making special knives for hundreds of years

Here's one from the first half of the 20th Century.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:11:43 AM EDT

[#27]

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:23:56 AM EDT

[#28]

There are plenty of off-the-shelf knives that will do.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:31:41 AM EDT

[#29]

Looks cool... but tell me how it does anything a KaBar doesn't do?

It may have a quicker draw with the sheath - but other than that...

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:33:22 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Looks cool... but tell me how it does anything a KaBar doesn't do?

It may have a quicker draw with the sheath - but other than that...

The tip is a better penetrator of meat for one. This isn't a field knife, it's a killer.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:36:02 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

The blade material will be a special alloy made by Crucible Specialty Tool Steel in Syracuse, N.Y..

w00t!

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:37:53 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/Simply_Green/20040503-104904-9389.jpg

There are plenty of off-the-shelf knives that will do.

That looks like some kind of folding knife with no way to open it quickly. Beats a popsicle stick but a lot can go wrong trying to get something like that open.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:43:23 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The blade material will be a special alloy made by Crucible Specialty Tool Steel in Syracuse, N.Y..

w00t!

If it's CPMS30V, I hope they don't let Reeve do the tempering.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:43:59 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Something old is new again.

The RBD is the knife the Fairbain-Sykes replaced.
www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/fs/fs_knife1.htm

When the Commandos were formed they were equipped with ordinary Infantry equipment with some extras like climbing boots. They were issued hunting knives. They should use these knives as hunting knives and fighting knives. In an article published by the Army Bureau of Current Affairs on the 7th of February 1942 it was explained that each commando should be able to use his knife for butchery besides using it as a fighting knife.

Wilkinson Sword issued a hunting knife called RBD. Privately purchased knives were also permitted.

The RBD hunting knife was first made by Wilkinson Sword in 1869 for R. Beauchamp Drummond Esq. whose initials were etched on the design drawing (hence the name ‘RBD’). A very popular design, Wilkinson Sword began to sell the knife commercially in the 1880s. Wilkinson Sword had a stock of these knives which they not had been able to sell before the war. Now after Dunkirk there was a desperate demand for all kinds of weapons including knives. It was now that the importance of this particular knife was fully recognised. The last of the RBDs were assembled and dispatched for the Commandos in 1940.

Posted: 10/8/2008 8:48:16 AM EDT

[#35]

Meh, just another knife. I brought a Gerber LMF II to Iraq with me, its been an excellent knife.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:05:57 AM EDT

[#36]

Phew, now we've solved the problem of "how to make a knife that you can hurt someone with."

Amazing it has taken so long.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:15:20 AM EDT

[#37]

1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:19:58 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Gerber MK II

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:22:51 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Meh, just another knife. I brought a Gerber LMF II to Iraq with me, its been an excellent knife.

Ditto

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:26:04 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Gerber MK II

What's the point of serrated edges ? Most of my knives are plain-edged because I find serrations to be annoying to sharpen.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:30:13 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Gerber MK II

What's the point of serrated edges ? Most of my knives are plain-edged because I find serrations to be annoying to sharpen.

Cook a steak then try to cut it with a letter opener. Should articulate itself pretty clearly.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:31:37 AM EDT

[#42]

Fuck that short-blade shit. If you run out of ammo, it's time to draw the Katana.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:36:15 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Fuck that short-blade shit. If you run out of ammo, it's time to draw the Katana.

A good sturdy machete with a slight weight imbalance towards the blade side would serve you better.

Something like a pole arm is actually best in a melee. Stabbing, range, hooking, prying, and hammering all in one.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:37:16 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Gerber MK II

What's the point of serrated edges ? Most of my knives are plain-edged because I find serrations to be annoying to sharpen.

IIRC, The original MKIIs were smoothed edged and were popular in Vietnam. But after a while PX refused to carry them because they were "too brutal". So Gerber added the serratons and turned it into a "survival knife" instead of a "fighting knife". The PX started selling them again.

As far as serrations in general, they add more cutting surface to the knife edge.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:39:15 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck that short-blade shit. If you run out of ammo, it's time to draw the Katana.

A good sturdy machete with a slight weight imbalance towards the blade side would serve you better.

Something like a pole arm is actually best in a melee. Stabbing, range, hooking, prying, and hammering all in one.

Better than a machette

Pole arms?

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:43:51 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Needs to be at least partially serrated.

2. Needs semi-large protruding pommel for hooking and hammer strikes.

3. Partial edge on back.

4. Blade need to be long enough to reach the heart from the subclavian stroke.

5. Textured grip for surehandedness and as importantly it needs to work in a up or down grip.

Minor tool options like wire cutting would be a plus.

Gerber MK II

What's the point of serrated edges ? Most of my knives are plain-edged because I find serrations to be annoying to sharpen.

IIRC, The original MKIIs were smoothed edged and were popular in Vietnam. But after a while PX refused to carry them because they were "too brutal". So Gerber added the serratons and turned it into a "survival knife" instead of a "fighting knife". The PX started selling them again.

As far as serrations in general, they add more cutting surface to the knife edge.

The factory serrations on mine were pretty ineffective, I could see them being just for PX approval. A dremel tool with a cone shaped grinding stone bit on it works great for sharpening serrations BTW,

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:44:35 AM EDT

[#47]

I like Harsey stuff. I have been carrying a Gerber Harsey Air Ranger for 5 years now.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:45:32 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good looking knife. I would hate to be in a knife fight though.

In a knife fight, chances are good that both parties are going to get hurt...

Unless you're Steven Seagal

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:45:58 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck that short-blade shit. If you run out of ammo, it's time to draw the Katana.

A good sturdy machete with a slight weight imbalance towards the blade side would serve you better.

Something like a pole arm is actually best in a melee. Stabbing, range, hooking, prying, and hammering all in one.

I was actually mostly joking, but you bring up an interesting point. I'm not too keen on getting into a West-Side story dance with some bad guy armed only with a K-Bar. I want something with some reach to keep me out of his slashing range. The machete might fit that bill...plus it's intimidating as hell. It won't just cut you, it'll take off a limb.

Posted: 10/8/2008 9:47:37 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fuck that short-blade shit. If you run out of ammo, it's time to draw the Katana.

A good sturdy machete with a slight weight imbalance towards the blade side would serve you better.

Something like a pole arm is actually best in a melee. Stabbing, range, hooking, prying, and hammering all in one.

I was actually mostly joking, but you bring up an interesting point. I'm not too keen on getting into a West-Side story dance with some bad guy armed only with a K-Bar. I want something with some reach to keep me out of his slashing range. The machete might fit that bill...plus it's intimidating as hell. It won't just cut you, it'll take off a limb.

It works well for the Philippine Marines.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Combatives Guru Making Hand-to-Hand Combat Knife (Page 1 of 2)

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