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Posted: 9/3/2005 4:36:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 4:36:24 PM EDT by panzersergeant]
Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans

By Joseph R. Chenelly
Times staff writer

09/03/05 "Army Times" -- -- NEW ORLEANS — Combat operations are underway on the streets “to take this city back” in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

“This place is going to look like Little Somalia,” Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. “We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control.”

Jones said the military first needs to establish security throughout the city. Military and police officials have said there are several large areas of the city are in a full state of anarchy.

Dozens of military trucks and up-armored Humvees left the staging area just after 11 a.m. Friday, while hundreds more troops arrived at the same staging area in the city via Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters.

“We’re here to do whatever they need us to do,” Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon, of the Oklahoma National Guard’s 1345th Transportation Company. “We packed to stay as long as it takes.”

While some fight the insurgency in the city, other carry on with rescue and evacuation operations. Helicopters are still pulling hundreds of stranded people from rooftops of flooded homes.

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and police helicopters filled the city sky Friday morning. Most had armed soldiers manning the doors. According to Petty Officer 3rd Class Jeremy Grishamn, a spokesman for the amphibious assault ship Bataan, the vessel kept its helicopters at sea Thursday night after several military helicopters reported being shot at from the ground.

Numerous soldiers also told Army Times that they have been shot at by armed civilians in New Orleans. Spokesmen for the Joint Task Force Headquarters at the Superdome were unaware of any servicemen being wounded in the streets, although one soldier is recovering from a gunshot wound sustained during a struggle with a civilian in the dome Wednesday night.

“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”

Spc. Cliff Ferguson of the 527th Engineer Battalion pointed out that he knows there are plenty of decent people in New Orleans, but he said it is hard to stay motivated considering the circumstances.

“This is making a lot of us think about not reenlisting.” Ferguson said. “You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didn’t come here to fight a war. We came here to help.”
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
Troops begin combat operations in New Orleans

By Joseph R. Chenelly
Times staff writer

09/03/05 "Army Times" -- -- NEW ORLEANS — Combat operations are underway on the streets “to take this city back” in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

“This place is going to look like Little Somalia,” Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. “We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control.”

Jones said the military first needs to establish security throughout the city. Military and police officials have said there are several large areas of the city are in a full state of anarchy.

Dozens of military trucks and up-armored Humvees left the staging area just after 11 a.m. Friday, while hundreds more troops arrived at the same staging area in the city via Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters.

“We’re here to do whatever they need us to do,” Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon, of the Oklahoma National Guard’s 1345th Transportation Company. “We packed to stay as long as it takes.”

While some fight the insurgency in the city, other carry on with rescue and evacuation operations. Helicopters are still pulling hundreds of stranded people from rooftops of flooded homes.

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and police helicopters filled the city sky Friday morning. Most had armed soldiers manning the doors. According to Petty Officer 3rd Class Jeremy Grishamn, a spokesman for the amphibious assault ship Bataan, the vessel kept its helicopters at sea Thursday night after several military helicopters reported being shot at from the ground.

Numerous soldiers also told Army Times that they have been shot at by armed civilians in New Orleans. Spokesmen for the Joint Task Force Headquarters at the Superdome were unaware of any servicemen being wounded in the streets, although one soldier is recovering from a gunshot wound sustained during a struggle with a civilian in the dome Wednesday night.

“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”

Spc. Cliff Ferguson of the 527th Engineer Battalion pointed out that he knows there are plenty of decent people in New Orleans, but he said it is hard to stay motivated considering the circumstances.

“This is making a lot of us think about not reenlisting.” Ferguson said. “You have to think about whether it is worth risking your neck for someone who will turn around and shoot at you. We didn’t come here to fight a war. We came here to help.”




Our country has been officially flushed down the shitter.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:40:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 4:41:01 PM EDT by nationwide]
"Little Somalia"
"Fight the insurgency"

hahahahaha!!!!!



WTF is next? "Assault Weapons" falling off the back of ice cream trucks???
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:40:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Our country has been officially flushed down the shitter.



I've been trying to remain upbeat but this is just beyond all belief.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:42:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Our country has been officially flushed down the shitter.



I've been trying to remain upbeat but this is just beyond all belief.



Wanna be upbeat? Look at it this way... the Hip Urbanites™ are getting their just desert!

Fuck 'em!

And don't get down on something a GI said... yeah, he's bitching... BUT... he got orders AND he reported
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:43:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
"Little Somalia"
"Fight the insurgency"

hahahahaha!!!!!



WTF is next? "Assault Weapons" falling off the back of ice cream trucks???



Yeah, just a tiny bit over the top.

G
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:44:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 4:47:03 PM EDT by TodaysTomSawyer]

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
[
I've been trying to remain upbeat but this is just beyond all belief.



It's all pretty unreal and hard to believe. How many Farah "Skyhook" Aidids are running around over there?

The parallels to Somalia are pretty sad - U.S. compared to a 3rd world jungle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:45:04 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:46:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Our country has been officially flushed down the shitter.



I've been trying to remain upbeat but this is just beyond all belief.



Wanna be upbeat? Look at it this way... the Hip Urbanites™ are getting their just desert!

Fuck 'em!

And don't get down on something a GI said... yeah, he's bitching... BUT... he got orders AND he reported



It's not what he said, it's watching these people.... it's just depressing in totality.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:48:58 PM EDT
Just wait until there's an earthquake in LA again. South Central will make this look like Kindergarten.

G
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:49:19 PM EDT
Overheard on the scanner this afternoon, something to the effect.... 'What's your number, I don't want to talk on the radio. This is about to get harsh.' Sounded like someone was getting ready to go kick some ass.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:49:25 PM EDT
“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”

Something is definitely wrong with some of those people
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:49:25 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:49:40 PM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:50:56 PM EDT
look at it this way.. they aint coordinated, they dont have rpgs and they aint motivated to commit sepuke like good muslms..

so an overstatement.. an exageration.. just a big mess up placed. i will be suprised if they see any kind of signficant resistance that requires a heavy response... i mean a crackhead with a 9mm gat and prolly no reloads isn't the same thing as 2 or 3 coordinated rpg teams for heavens sake....
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:57:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 4:57:49 PM EDT by Kharn]
The article is from the Army Times, so of course its going to refer to previous conflicts and talk in military terms.

But, it doenst mention the soldier shot in the dome was shot during a fight with a "civilian" for his M16.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”




all i've got to say,is about a brigade of infantry paratroopers is supposed to be down there in the near future .... if they want to play those games,then let them. all will be determined.we've got more practice than they do
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:59:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”




Ummm....

I packed one in L.A. for the Riots, and the Earthquakes...

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:59:47 PM EDT

Handle it
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:00:31 PM EDT
At least there is not hoards of skinnies with AK's and RPG's

Get-some

Taffy

I hope you guys get this under control real soon.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:01:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackt308:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”



all i've got to say,is about a brigade of infantry paratroopers is supposed to be down there in the near future .... if they want to play those games,then let them. all will be determined.we've got more practice than they do



I'd rather see good ole Louisiana coonasses and rednecks down there protecting the ones that want to do good (or came to the realization they f'ed up by staying) and then kicking ass and taking names of the 10%ers.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:01:57 PM EDT
What are the chances of embedded journalist and videos of the operations?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:03:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:05:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:06:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 5:07:57 PM EDT by jackt308]

all i've got to say,is about a brigade of infantry paratroopers is supposed to be down there in the near future .... if they want to play those games,then let them. all will be determined.we've got more practice than they do



I'd rather see good ole Louisiana coonasses and rednecks down there protecting the ones that want to do good (or came to the realization they f'ed up by staying) and then kicking ass and taking names of the 10%ers.


those armed and doing right,i agree with completely.those armed,and shooting at rescue workers, choppers,etc,are the ones who need to be gotten under control. hopefully the "show of force" alone will calm things down at least a little bit.time will tell.until then,good luck,louisiana
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:07:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 5:12:33 PM EDT by blueheeler66]

Originally Posted By ikor:
The punks will fold and fade in the end, like they almost always do...the Guard guys absolutely do need to structure things for the possibility of serious resistance, but my guess is that you could take one Marine rifle squad, starve them for three days, then drop an ice cold six pack and two BLTs in the middle of this shit, give them live ammo and the correct co-ordinates, and it would all be over within 45 minutes after you turned them loose!



+1 that would work also. OOOHRAH!!!

I don't know jackt308; plenty of rampant stupidity down there, bred in for many years. I imagine the NOPD and the locals have a fair idea of who is behind this mess causing the trouble.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:07:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
Just wait until there's an earthquake in LA again. South Central will make this look like Kindergarten.

G



+1 They'll be better armed and trained.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:32:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
What are the chances of embedded journalist and videos of the operations?



That will happen. On a side note, I can see the name for the video game already: "Grand Theft Auto meets Big Easy Looters meets the 82nd Airborne."
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:36:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
What are the chances of embedded journalist and videos of the operations?



That will happen. On a side note, I can see the name for the video game already: "Grand Theft Auto meets Big Easy Looters meets the 82nd Airborne."



lol.very nice.i can see that one as well...except it'll have some awe inspiring name,like "Deadly Relief from the Sky" or something.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
What are the chances of embedded journalist and videos of the operations?



That will happen. On a side note, I can see the name for the video game already: "Grand Theft Auto meets Big Easy Looters meets the 82nd Airborne."



Too long..............Grand Theft Looting, Big Easy Style
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:56:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -brass-:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Has anyone seen C-Rock lately??






Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:10:33 PM EDT by HKgnnr]
Some chatter on the LNG stream - should open up in Windows Media player -

205.252.89.181:8000/live.m3u
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:11:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:12:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:12:39 PM EDT by cmjohnson]
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:13:47 PM EDT
Other cities should take notes from this on how to handle their gang problems.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:18:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:22:09 PM EDT by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By jackt308:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”




all i've got to say,is about a brigade of infantry paratroopers is supposed to be down there in the near future .... if they want to play those games,then let them. all will be determined.we've got more practice than they do



After the demise of the best airborne plan, a most terrifying effect occurs on the battlefield. This effect is known as the "Rule of LGOPs" This is, in its purest form, a small group of "Pissed-Off American Paratroopers". They are well trained, armed to the teeth and lack serious supervision. They collectively remember the Commanders intent as "March to the sound of guns and kill anyone who isn't dressed like you... " or something like that. Happily they go about a days work!

Airborne, ya little wanna be thugs. Fucking gang bangers like to refer to themselves as 'soldiers'. That misconception is about to be corrected.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:19:01 PM EDT
Imagine a beer truck full of troops behind the sliding doors, baiting the assholes out of their hiding places for an expected "easy hit". Truck stops, when asshats approach, driver signals troops, doors open up, and it's open season on anyone with a gun aimed in the direction of the truck.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:29:04 PM EDT
the thugs taking potshots at the cops/NG are a small percentage of the N'Awluns refugees. It is sad that that small percentage has made this Brig. Gen. view all the refugees (his fellow Americans) as hajjis.

Combat operations my ass. COmpare that with LTG Honore shouting at the soldiers to quit aiming their rifles at the people.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:38:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
the thugs taking potshots at the cops/NG are a small percentage of the N'Awluns refugees. It is sad that that small percentage has made this Brig. Gen. view all the refugees (his fellow Americans) as hajjis.

Combat operations my ass. COmpare that with LTG Honore shouting at the soldiers to quit aiming their rifles at the people.



i have to agree with your thoughts here.i'm pissed,and according to whatever rules of engagement are established,i'm confident in the experience and decision making abilities of the majority of incoming forces,thatthey will deal with the given situation as calmly or harshly as necessary. i believe the BG has a bit of a "buzzword" thing going with his phrasing, and i believe he is blowing some of it out of proportion,but i do think some situations are going to require harsher treatment than others.i just hope we can do more good for the victims than harm,and i'm confident that is how it will turn out.in the meantime,i think we need to bear the entire situation in the backs of our minds.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:39:00 PM EDT
A serious Wake Up call for many.


The Silver Lining
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:44:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
TWO CHLLING WORDS:

POSSE COMITATUS

I'm not quite sure how that has an effect on THIS situation, but it DOES bear watching.

CJ



There are various exceptions to the Act, including to allow counter-drug, counter-terror, and civil disturbance missions on U.S. soil.

It's not a factor.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:45:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:49:21 PM EDT by rifleman2000]
American troops in New Orleans is hardly a laughing matter. For one thing, some American soldiers may die, tragically at the hands of someone they thought they were helping. Secondly, American soldiers are now authorized to kill, to conduct "combat operations" in America against Americans. Granted, it is needed, but it is tragic and sobering. It is not something we want to get into a habit of.

Lastly, the percentage of trouble makers is probably not very high. But these worthless punks have killed, raped, and plundered. They have ruined countless people's lives. They prevent help from arriving for those who need it. They have affected the economy nationwide. They have disrupted the lives of LEOs and other volunteers from around the country who have to give up their time and risk their lives helping these people. They have disgraced our country. Personally, I hope the soldiers who go in there make short work of them and pull no punches. But it is tragedy on a national scale.

God bless America, and keep your powder dry.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:47:33 PM EDT
Git some!!!!
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 7:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
“I never thought that at a National Guardsman I would be shot at by other Americans,” said Spc. Philip Baccus of the 527th Engineer Battalion. “And I never thought I’d have to carry a rifle when on a hurricane relief mission. This is a disgrace.”



It's one thing to be in a foriegn country getting popped at... it's another when you're there to help "your own" and they're less than receptive.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 7:49:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
A serious Wake Up call for many.


The Silver Lining




Did for me. Kicked me from "planning" into "doing."

This entire week has been a huge learning experience for me.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 7:51:33 PM EDT
no joke
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:00:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blueheeler66:

Originally Posted By ikor:
The punks will fold and fade in the end, like they almost always do...the Guard guys absolutely do need to structure things for the possibility of serious resistance, but my guess is that you could take one Marine rifle squad, starve them for three days, then drop an ice cold six pack and two BLTs in the middle of this shit, give them live ammo and the correct co-ordinates, and it would all be over within 45 minutes after you turned them loose!



+1 that would work also. OOOHRAH!!!

I don't know jackt308; plenty of rampant stupidity down there, bred in for many years. I imagine the NOPD and the locals have a fair idea of who is behind this mess causing the trouble.



They know exactly who it is...
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:05:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blueheeler66:

I'd rather see good ole Louisiana coonasses and rednecks down there protecting the ones that want to do good (or came to the realization they f'ed up by staying) and then kicking ass and taking names of the 10%ers.



Are you referring to the LNG PFC "Coonasses?"

Do you think you could find a little more respectful term to use regarding our Troops?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:11:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 8:20:49 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
the thugs taking potshots at the cops/NG are a small percentage of the N'Awluns refugees. It is sad that that small percentage has made this Brig. Gen. view all the refugees (his fellow Americans) as hajjis.



If they act the part...

They get treated as such...

These fuckers are not only running apeshit looting & pillaging, they're shooting at military rescue helos....

IMHO, 'Combat Operations' (with a proper ROE, and well trained troops who will not cause a pile of collateral damage) are just the ticket... Given all the MOUT/counter-insurgency experience that's been had lately, controlling looters should be a walk in the park compared to Iraqi insurgents...

And I gar-un-tee that if those CH-47s started mounting (and using) door guns, they'd stop taking fire...
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:12:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schmeghead:

Originally Posted By blueheeler66:

I'd rather see good ole Louisiana coonasses and rednecks down there protecting the ones that want to do good (or came to the realization they f'ed up by staying) and then kicking ass and taking names of the 10%ers.



Are you referring to the LNG PFC "Coonasses?"

Do you think you could find a little more respectful term to use regarding our Troops?



Graduated from RIT? Reading is tough.
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