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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/27/2002 10:45:38 AM EDT
[img]http://www.gamerz232.org/images/columbine.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 12:09:15 PM EDT
how sad the truth is!
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 12:11:17 PM EDT
[usa]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 12:20:05 PM EDT
How true, now they don''t want the Pledge or even a moment of silence.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 1:09:20 PM EDT
The problem was that Highschool kids are probably some of the MOST CRUEL people in the world. It's a cesspool of psychological abuse. There is a vast difference between the 'have's' and 'have-not's' in highschool.... Those that are not in the 'in' crowd are often subjected to such abject cruelty at the hands of their classmates. I don't think it's the absence of God in schools, or prayer, or moments of silence... it's the absence of RESPECT FOR ONE'S PEERS. Of course, good christian values would instill that respect, but I've seen some of the worst harassment perpetrated by so called 'good christians' I'm not knocking Christianity... I'm pointing out that the lack of it in our schools is not to blame. It's a total disregard for respect that teenagers have.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 1:45:40 PM EDT
Why is it that when something good happens "god" is the first to get the credit....but as soon as something bad happens it's blamed on something else? Omnipotent? Selectively I guess.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:17:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4: Why is it that when something good happens "god" is the first to get the credit....but as soon as something bad happens it's blamed on something else? Omnipotent? Selectively I guess.
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That comment is going to garner some attention. [V]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:29:10 PM EDT
Now wait a one cottonpicken minute, I thought it was all NRA's fault?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:47:10 PM EDT
I thought it was the guns' fault? I do agree that teenagers can be total arseholes...its too bad they are that young cuz there have been times I would have liked to have kicked their butts. Lets bring back God, Disciplinary action, & the Pledge to school...& arm all the teachers. That will stop alot of crap in schools & not make them such easy targets. Arming teachers has worked in Israel...
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 3:00:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunbert:
Originally Posted By M4: Why is it that when something good happens "god" is the first to get the credit....but as soon as something bad happens it's blamed on something else? Omnipotent? Selectively I guess.
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That comment is going to garner some attention. [V]
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Naw, if he'd paid attention to the scads of comments on the issue, he wouldn't have made the comment. It's been answered many times..
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 3:20:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q: The problem was that Highschool kids are probably some of the MOST CRUEL people in the world. It's a cesspool of psychological abuse. There is a vast difference between the 'have's' and 'have-not's' in highschool.... Those that are not in the 'in' crowd are often subjected to such abject cruelty at the hands of their classmates. I don't think it's the absence of God in schools, or prayer, or moments of silence... it's the absence of RESPECT FOR ONE'S PEERS. Of course, good christian values would instill that respect, but I've seen some of the worst harassment perpetrated by so called 'good christians' I'm not knocking Christianity... I'm pointing out that the lack of it in our schools is not to blame. It's a total disregard for respect that teenagers have.
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I'm not sure I buy the whole bully-theory as to why kids are on rampages. There have been bullies, social cliques, have's and have-not's for as long as there has been a public school system in this country. Yet, it seems that dysfunctional, psychotic kids shooting up their schools and classmates are a new phenomenon. I think the main problem is a failure to instill morals in the home environment (because the public schools sure aren't qualified to do that). Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers. Where were the parents? Why didn't one of them notice what was going on? Probably too busy working so they could afford their nice house and their Lexus SUVs. Meantime, the kids are left to raise themselves with the likes of Marilyn Manson as a positive role model, and absolutely zero guidance from their "parents". And if they happen to act up in school, well, let's just put them on anti-depressants or Ritalin. That'll solve the whole problem and the parents only have to take a couple of hours off of work to take the little monster to the doctor for the cure. Okay, I'm done with my rant for now...
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 3:27:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Yankee1911: I'm not sure I buy the whole bully-theory as to why kids are on rampages. There have been bullies, social cliques, have's and have-not's for as long as there has been a public school system in this country. Yet, it seems that dysfunctional, psychotic kids shooting up their schools and classmates are a new phenomenon. I think the main problem is a failure to instill morals in the home environment (because the public schools sure aren't qualified to do that). Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers. Where were the parents? Why didn't one of them notice what was going on? Probably too busy working so they could afford their nice house and their Lexus SUVs. Meantime, the kids are left to raise themselves with the likes of Marilyn Manson as a positive role model, and absolutely zero guidance from their "parents". And if they happen to act up in school, well, let's just put them on anti-depressants or Ritalin. That'll solve the whole problem and the parents only have to take a couple of hours off of work to take the little monster to the doctor for the cure. Okay, I'm done with my rant for now...
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You were doing good until the whole Marilyn Manson thing...[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 3:58:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4: Why is it that when something good happens "god" is the first to get the credit....but as soon as something bad happens it's blamed on something else? Omnipotent? Selectively I guess.
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Although some here would categorize your reply as boarder line trolling, I feel compelled to respond. I'm not going to go into some exhaustive diatribe as if I were some seasoned Christian apologist. Instead, I'll just answer your question as best I can and tell you where I'm coming from. I used to share your opinion. All I could (wanted?) to see was what I felt to be hipocracy demonstrated by the actions of the so called "Christians". I was not impressed. I'm 39 and I spent most of my life as a non-believer. Much of the Bible seemed contradictive on the surface and besides, I just didn't have time for all that Jesus junk and religious crap. Out of curiosity, I picked up a book entitled "The Case For Christ" written by one time atheist (when he began writing the book) and well known journalist, Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel is an investigative journalist with a legal background who focuses most of his attention and efforts on hardcore murder cases. He is the truest of sceptics. I'll be the first to admit that I have a very short attention span when it comes to reading.[sleep] But, this book is a great page turner for both atheist and believers and it's written in layman terms. If you read one book in your life, read this one. At the very least, it will help you understand BOTH sides of the God argument in detail. Both sides of the argument are presented in a way which allows you to make your own decisions[thinking] based on the HARD, TANGIBLE EVIDENCE presented, not a bunch of hocus pocus crap or religious psycho babel. Ok, so maybe this did turn into a diatribe, my apologies.[:D] Bottom line, now that I am a believer, I still don't like to see pushy Christians trying to cram feed Jesus anymore that I would like to see the Krishna at the airport shoveling literature and banging on tambourines. I'm not ashamed to tell anyone what God has done in my life. If you want to hear about it great. If not, that's ok too. Your still welcome in my trench. I don't pretend to be the model Christian, I'm not...I'm just honest about it. Among other things, I still enjoy my occasional Jack Daniels on ice and If you're persistent at tailgating my SUV I'll probable flip you off[:O] (I still need allot of work).[;D] I didn't seek a higher power out of desperation, I was at a very comfortable place in my life (self made, upper middle class by income only[:D]) when I became a believer. I'm not saying that your post is offensive to me (it's not) or invalid, it's simply your view, based on your life experience. I have hope that it changes some day. _______________________________________________ No two men are ever more equal than when they are both armed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 4:16:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TopCrest: You were doing good until the whole Marilyn Manson thing...[rolleyes]
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I've got nothing against MM, although I don't really care for his music. My point is that these kids didn't have a parent to be a real role model, so they are instead influenced by somebody was never intended to be a role model. Alice Cooper would have the same effect on a kid without a real grip on reality, and I like Alice Cooper. To sum up: Popular culture, be it music, movies, tv, video games, etc., shouldn't be left in charge of raising kids. That's [I]supposed[/I] to be the parents' job.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 4:30:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:29:21 PM EDT
"And if they happen to act up in school, well, let's just put them on anti-depressants or Ritalin." I understand that all highschool shooters were on some kind of drugs prior to their shootings.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:36:46 PM EDT
Basically, high school sucked for me. Didn't really fit in with anybody. Sports were the best thing about my four years. I would never want to go back. My life didn't really start until I graduated from college. Being bullied can wreak havoc on kids. I'm surprised more crap like this hasn't happened. When I was in, it was just fist-fights. Now, it's guns.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:37:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunner1X: I don't pretend to be the model Christian, I'm not...I'm just honest about it. Among other things, I still enjoy my occasional Jack Daniels on ice and If you're persistent at tailgating my SUV I'll probable flip you off[:O] (I still need allot of work).[;D] I didn't seek a higher power out of desperation, I was at a very comfortable place in my life (self made, upper middle class by income only[:D]) when I became a believer. I'm not saying that your post is offensive to me (it's not) or invalid, it's simply your view, based on your life experience. I have hope that it changes some day. _______________________________________________ No two men are ever more equal than when they are both armed.
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Not to hijack the thread completely, Gunner1x, but if all believers were like you (and I mean all faiths) then we wouldn't have had centuries of "religious warfare" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one.) I haven't met you personally, but should the situation ever require it, I've got your six.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 7:52:32 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q: The problem was that Highschool kids are probably some of the MOST CRUEL people in the world. It's a cesspool of psychological abuse. There is a vast difference between the 'have's' and 'have-not's' in highschool.... Those that are not in the 'in' crowd are often subjected to such abject cruelty at the hands of their classmates. I don't think it's the absence of God in schools, or prayer, or moments of silence... it's the absence of RESPECT FOR ONE'S PEERS. Of course, good christian values would instill that respect, but I've seen some of the worst harassment perpetrated by so called 'good christians' I'm not knocking Christianity... I'm pointing out that the lack of it in our schools is not to blame. It's a total disregard for respect that teenagers have.
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All of the above is not new to high school, but the shootings are. It has nothing to do with God being or not being in our schools. It has to do with parental control, or lack of nowadays, schools not being allowed to administer corporal punishment, and people not being held responsible for their actions. When I was in high school and you screwed up, not only did you get it across the backside from the boy's adviser, you got it again when you got home. Quite an incentive not to screw up. Back then, teachers did not have to deal with the behavioral problems that they do now because our society is oh, so much more enlightened and we should never punish the little darlings. Hell, back then, you could mail order a gun, people took them to school when they were going shooting or hunting after school, we had rifle teams and a rifle range, and no one shot the schools up back then. But, it had nothing to do with whether there was school prayer or the Ten Commandments on the wall. Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, but that is irrelevant to this subject.
Originally posted by Yankee1911: I think the main problem is a failure to instill morals in the home environment (because the public schools sure aren't qualified to do that). Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers. Where were the parents? Why didn't one of them notice what was going on? Probably too busy working so they could afford their nice house and their Lexus SUVs.
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I am so tired of this crap about both parents working! Both my parents worked, I was one of seven kids. They worked just to make ends meet. However, if they had found a shotgun barrel of some of the other crap that these two punks were into, there would have been hell to pay, and they would have found out, believe me! It's more to do with the parents mindset, which leads to The_Beer_Slayer's point. They can both work and still pay attention to their kids, both lovingly and firmly, without the damn drugs.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:47:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:27:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Striker: We recently had a young boy in my province . In his note he stated that he couldn't deal with being bullied by a classmate anymore. The classmate turned out to be an older . She has been arrested and charged. I can't remember all of them but assault was one. A very very sad case for both families.
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what was she charged with? alledged bullying? is that a crime....can they prove it? is it inocent untill proven guilty in the canadian courts too? bummer for the kid that killed himself, but, he needs help not blaming it on other people. parents should have taught him/her to go to them for help. what was she charged for?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:32:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally posted by Yankee1911: I think the main problem is a failure to instill morals in the home environment (because the public schools sure aren't qualified to do that). Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers. Where were the parents? Why didn't one of them notice what was going on? Probably too busy working so they could afford their nice house and their Lexus SUVs.
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I am so tired of this crap about both parents working! Both my parents worked, I was one of seven kids. They worked just to make ends meet. However, if they had found a shotgun barrel of some of the other crap that these two punks were into, there would have been hell to pay, and they would have found out, believe me! It's more to do with the parents mindset, which leads to The_Beer_Slayer's point. They can both work and still pay attention to their kids, both lovingly and firmly, without the damn drugs.
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Kinda my whole point there, Larry. [rolleyes] Both of my parents worked, too, but like your parents they did it to pay for the family expenses; not at the expense of the family to pay for a bunch of worthless crap.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:57:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Yankee1911: Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers.
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Not trying to nitpick here, but this sounds like something easier said than done. As parents, would we kick our childrens asses for being enthusiastic about firearms?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:03:09 PM EDT
....but as soon as something bad happens it's blamed on something else?
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Usually SOMEONE else.. Usually Clinton. [:X*]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:25:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Being bullied can wreak havoc on kids. I'm surprised more crap like this hasn't happened. When I was in, it was just fist-fights. Now, it's guns.
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Nah, Goblin...I've heard that over and over on radio call-in shows, newspaper editorials, etc.. In general, kids these days haven't suddenly hung up their boxing gloves in favor of Uzi's, but the huge amount of press attention that a single school shooting incident gets makes it seem like a pervasive problem. Which I can understand how it happens, in a way. When Columbine happened, for the next 2 weeks, about 50% of the airtime given to the news was taken up by that shit, so naturally it seemed like a bigger problem than it really was. It was an isolated incident, but the sensationalism makes it seem otherwise. In fact, incidents of school violence have been DECREASING for the past several years, if you look at cold statistics and not a weepy news reporter. Probably one of the worst things to come out of Columbine (and I remember predicting this to myself at the time) was that in the following few weeks, there were 2 or 3 other school shootings across the country. One of them was near my home in Pennsylvania. So a couple kids take some gunz to school, blast away their classmates and teachers, and then the TVs and radios are filled up 24/7 with terror-stricken news reporters, "guy on the street" interviews etc.. It was really a national panic. Now imagine you're some "loser" that gets picked on all the time in school. Maybe you tried to stand up for yourself before but got beat down. So your anger smolders and you constantly brood about how the world is out to get you. You see these kinds in Columbine, and how they made the whole country afraid of them, I can see how, for a kid with a fragile grip on his life, how he would look to the Columbine kids as role models and try to emulate them. And sure enough, the kids did. It'll never happen this way, but I think if the media treats Columbine-like incidents with a few articles and then shuts the hell up, it would prevent such copy-cat crimes, since Kip Kinkle and friends wouldn't seem so damn powerful and fearsome. Just some food for thought. -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:37:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sesat_ram:
Originally Posted By Yankee1911: Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers.
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Not trying to nitpick here, but this sounds like something easier said than done. As parents, would we kick our childrens asses for being enthusiastic about firearms?
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That's a valid comment, not nitpicking. [:)] The difference is, these two weren't enthusiastic about the fun of shooting. They were enthusiastic about the killing of their classmates. BTW, I believe that the shotgun barrel found in the bedroom was actually just the sawed-off section. I should have clarified that earlier. My dad would have turned my butt a bright shade of purple if he or my mom had found a sawed-off shotgun barrel in my bedroom, or heard about me making pipe bombs. And they would have found out about it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:38:21 PM EDT
You know what? It is interesting, I got out of High School not so long ago that this is differnt than when I was in, all this shit started happening the year after I got out, school shootings that is, not Columbine. I was MISERABLE in high school, took soem of the worst abuse in my life there, I am some sure soem pansy Psychologist woudl say I was scarred by it, but hell, they would also say I was scarred by my Father hitting me as punishement when I was younger, and Hell Yeah, I was. But i know for a fact that I have had it worse than soem of these kids who start shooting, and I know that if my father had not beat sense into me, I may have been like them, so you know what? discipline is a GOOD thing, and the next school or politician or psychologist who tries to tell you different, tell them to Fuck Off! Useless Sons of Sheepraping Leprous Whores!! [pissed] hmmm, and I may just be grumpy after work [;)]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:46:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 9:50:32 PM EDT by N_Viejo]
Originally Posted By LARRYG: It has to do with parental control, or lack of nowadays, schools not being allowed to administer corporal punishment, and people not being held responsible for their actions.
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I agree with you here Larry. I dated a gal for quite a while up until a few years ago. While I was dating her, I got to be really close with her mother, who has been a public school teacher for something like 25 years or something. She taught 6th grade. In fact, her mom taught at a school that was a couple miles from where I went to college, so when visiting my gal, I often would catch a ride with her mom back to college. During those 40-minute commutes, I learned alot of 1st-hand info on the public school systems. Now understand, this woman was very intelligent. She agreed with you about corporal punishment (although I don't), but what was worse was when she tried to discipline a kid--for fighting, or talking during the lesson, or anything. Well, 5 times out of 10, she would discipline the kid (this would involve temporary revocation of recess privilges, or whatever) and the kid's mother (not many had fathers) would come in and take the teacher to task, saying that she was unfair to her son, and so forth. So any attempts at establishing respect and order in the classroom were undermined by idiot mothers who are teaching their kids how to be the perfect victim. There are so many problems contributing to this, from the structure of the schools themselves, to the fact that so many kids grow up without fathers, to the remaining parents abdicating their responsibilities to their children. I don't see it ever getting any better, and that's a sad story indeed. But like you, I think the most important factor is that not enough parents are willing to put forth the hard work it takes to raise their kids properly. Instead of putting in the effort and making personal sacrefices, it's so much easier to give your kids Ritalin, or yell at the teacher because Johnny was misbehaving. -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:02:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 10:12:32 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q: The problem was that Highschool kids are probably some of the MOST CRUEL people in the world. It's a cesspool of psychological abuse. There is a vast difference between the 'have's' and 'have-not's' in highschool.... Those that are not in the 'in' crowd are often subjected to such abject cruelty at the hands of their classmates. I don't think it's the absence of God in schools, or prayer, or moments of silence... it's the absence of RESPECT FOR ONE'S PEERS. Of course, good christian values would instill that respect, but I've seen some of the worst harassment perpetrated by so called 'good christians' I'm not knocking Christianity... I'm pointing out that the lack of it in our schools is not to blame. It's a total disregard for respect that teenagers have.
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I'm not sure I buy the whole bully-theory as to why kids are on rampages. There have been bullies, social cliques, have's and have-not's for as long as there has been a public school system in this country. Yet, it seems that dysfunctional, psychotic kids shooting up their schools and classmates are a new phenomenon.
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You would be mistaken. High School shootings have happened since at least 1989 in recent times. Hell, the worst school killing of all time is the Bath School incident in Michigan in 1927, though that was done by the district treasurer and not a student.
I think the main problem is a failure to instill morals in the home environment (because the public schools sure aren't qualified to do that). Police found shotgun barrels and other interesting tidbits in the bedroom of one the Columbine killers. Where were the parents? Why didn't one of them notice what was going on? Probably too busy working so they could afford their nice house and their Lexus SUVs. Meantime, the kids are left to raise themselves with the likes of Marilyn Manson as a positive role model, and absolutely zero guidance from their "parents". And if they happen to act up in school, well, let's just put them on anti-depressants or Ritalin. That'll solve the whole problem and the parents only have to take a couple of hours off of work to take the little monster to the doctor for the cure. Okay, I'm done with my rant for now...
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On this we agree completely. When both parents are more worried about their careers, or when there is only one parent who works full time, the child ultimately suffers. They grow up without grounding a guidance, and that only leads to bad things. When I was a teenager, my mother inspected my room once a week. It made hiding my porn extremely difficult, and she caught me doing things I should not have done. It would have been impossible for me to have had guns or bomb making materials in my room and go unnoticed. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:10:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunner1X: Bottom line, now that I am a believer, I still don't like to see pushy Christians trying to cram feed Jesus anymore that I would like to see the Krishna at the airport shoveling literature and banging on tambourines. I'm not ashamed to tell anyone what God has done in my life. If you want to hear about it great. If not, that's ok too. Your still welcome in my trench. I don't pretend to be the model Christian, I'm not...I'm just honest about it. Among other things, I still enjoy my occasional Jack Daniels on ice and If you're persistent at tailgating my SUV I'll probable flip you off[:O] (I still need allot of work).[;D] I didn't seek a higher power out of desperation, I was at a very comfortable place in my life (self made, upper middle class by income only[:D]) when I became a believer. I'm not saying that your post is offensive to me (it's not) or invalid, it's simply your view, based on your life experience. I have hope that it changes some day.
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Amen brother! Yes, nothing worse in the world than self-righteous Christians who spend their time indicting and condemning others for their sin while failing to recognize their own. They think that by being a Christian they have somehow become better than everyone else, which isn't the case. We're all sinners, the only difference between us and them is we recognized it and wanted to do better. So, we asked for Jesus to come into our lives and now try to live our lives the way Christ commands as best we can, as only he was perfect. We are saved by his grace, not our own. Too many so-called Christians forget that fact. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
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