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Posted: 12/12/2005 6:36:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 6:39:48 AM EDT by motown_steve]
This is straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak). Yesterday, I sent the following question to the Director of Sales and Marketing for Colt Mfg:


Hello,

My name is motown_steve. I was given your e-mail address by a user on 1911forums.com who said that you may be able to answer a couple of questions for me about Colt. As you may or may not be aware, there are some stories from credible people on AR15.com stating that Colt's policy regarding the sale of LE AR-15s is to require that Colt dealers and distributors obtain an LEO letterhead (stating that the rifle is being purchased for official use) from anyone attempting to purchase a Colt LE AR-15. Can you shed any light on this situation? Is it Colt's policy to require Colt dealers and distributors to obtain a letter on letterhead from a Law Enforcement organization stating that an LE model rifle is going to be used for official purposes before selling that rifle?

As you probably are aware, the features that seperate the Colt LE rifles (specifically the LE6520, LE6920, LE6921 and AR6721) from the rifles manufactured by Colt Mfg. are no longer prohibited by federal law. This makes these rifles highly desirable by citizen firearms enthusiasts and shooters. I look forward to your response.

With Regards,

motown_steve



Here is the response that I got from


When the ban was in effect we did have that policy, with the sunset of the band Colt no longer requires that practice. Colt has elected not to retro the MT product line. The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there own policy in place but it is not driven by Colt.

Mark Roberts
Director, Sales and Marketing
Colt's Manufacturing Co. LLC



I officially take back all of the nasty things that I've ever said about Colt, and I am going to start buying their ARs.

For once, I don't mind being proven wrong.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:39:34 AM EDT
Now, don't start confusing people with facts!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:39:41 AM EDT
Take that anti-Colt pricks!

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:40:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 6:41:06 AM EDT by Engineer5]
Thanks for the offical dope.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:42:15 AM EDT
I told you so
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:42:15 AM EDT



When the ban was in effect we did have that policy, with the sunset of the band Colt no longer requires that practice. Colt has elected not to retro the MT product line. The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there own policy in place but it is not driven by Colt.

Mark Roberts
Director, Sales and Marketing
Colt's Manufacturing Co. LLC


Levon Helm is a musical genius!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:42:45 AM EDT
In the latest SGN, some wholesalers are selling LE style Colts to anyone.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:44:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 6:45:58 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:



Here is the response that I got from


When the ban was in effect we did have that policy, with the sunset of the band BAN Colt no longer requires that practice. Colt has elected not to retro the MT product line. The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there THEIR own policy POLICIES in place, but it is not driven by Colt.

Mark Roberts
Director, Sales and Marketing
Colt's Manufacturing Co. LLC






Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:46:20 AM EDT
I would still rather buy a Bushmaster and put good optics on it than buy a Colt.

And yes, I do own a Colt. Its a fine rifle, but I havent seen anything that suggests that it is any better than my 5 Bushies.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:47:00 AM EDT
Well that is good to know, even though I haven't bought a Colt gun in a number of years.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:33:04 AM EDT
I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. I'd rather be humbled and right, than proud and wrong.

I too, take back everything I've ever said about Colt. This should serve as a sobering reminder to all of us: Emotion cannot take the place of logic and reason. Sadly, I've been guilty of it myself. Like so many others, I get angry when I see even a hint of anti-gun practices, and it sometimes clouds my judgement. I've accepted heresay as fact, despite my vocal opposition to that very practice. I'm ashamed of my apparent hypocricy. I don't want it to happen again.

Steve, thanks for taking the time to do what many of us should have done a long time ago.

Now, we can debate whether or not the extra couple hundred dollars is worth it.

As for me, I think I'll buy a Colt for no other reason than to absolve myself of falsely accusing a company of practices they never had.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:37:45 AM EDT
IB one of the Colt bashers claims the letter is BS.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:41:47 AM EDT

The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there own policy in place but it is not driven by Colt.


So, exactly what is the guy trying to say?

Can i expect to walk into jim-bob's beer and gun store and find a colt rifle with a bayonet lug?

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:43:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Now, we can debate whether or not the extra couple hundred dollars is worth it.



NO...........
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:44:01 AM EDT

Levon Helm is a musical genius!


Take a load off.


Take that anti-Colt pricks!


I don't care about their politics. I was/am boycotting because the last two Colts I bought sucked.

Eddie
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:46:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

The LE products are still being sold to our LE distributors, they may have there own policy in place but it is not driven by Colt.


So, exactly what is the guy trying to say?

Can i expect to walk into jim-bob's beer and gun store and find a colt rifle with a bayonet lug?




I take it to mean they are selling these rifles to LE distributors, which seems to exempt Jim-Bob's Beer and Gun Store. If Jim-Bob wants to become an LE distributor, he can sell the LE rifles. If he wants to sell them to non-LEO customers, he is free to do so. That's how I read it.

Personally, I wish they'd just sell the rifles to any distributor (heck, maybe they will?), but that's commentary on their business practices, not an inditement of their Second Ammendment stance. I won't bash them for it any longer.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:46:51 AM EDT
I still love my Bushmaster!



HH
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:49:04 AM EDT
Ok so they will still sell to LE distributors. What about Joe Schmoes guns n stuff?

I ALSO take back MOST of the nasty things I've said about Colt but they are still overpriced IMO.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:54:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:15:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 10:35:07 AM EDT by txgp17]
Bravo!
I would still like to see one on the shelf at my local gun store.
Maybe that will be next.

ETA - There's a "COLT" marked AR carbine on the shelf of my local gunstore, priced at $1,000 I think, trouble is that it has a "pencil" barrel that is obviously thinner than my Bushy M4 profile barrel, and my FN A2 barrel. I didn't ask to look at it in detail and look at the barrel markings, but I'm pretty sure it's not a COLT upper, although I don't drink from the COLT Kewl-aid pitcher, so I know a little more than diddley about them.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:18:49 AM EDT
I stand corrected, for the moment at least. A public announcement to this effect would be the clincher.

Anybody wanna tell SteyrAug?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:29:50 AM EDT
Wow, this site should start running faster now that there will be 1000 less "COLT SUCKS" threads per month. Now all the Colt haters can STFU once and for all. Of course, they'll still accuse colt of being overpriced, yadi yadi yadi, who cares. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:32:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Wow, this site should start running faster now that there will be 1000 less "COLT SUCKS" threads per month. Now all the Colt haters can STFU once and for all. Of course, they'll still accuse colt of being overpriced, yadi yadi yadi, who cares. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it!



Or alternatively, the Colt haters (like me until today) will see the err in their ways and cease bashing them. You're already getting defensive.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:34:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 10:34:36 AM EDT by Bumblebee_Bob]

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
I stand corrected, for the moment at least. A public announcement to this effect would be the clincher.

Anybody wanna tell?



Yeah. Tag for his response.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:41:31 AM EDT
<---- COLT w00t!

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:44:08 AM EDT
Please don't bring facts into a Colt bashing thread.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:50:30 AM EDT
If this is indeed true, then I withdraw my anti-colt opinion.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:10:19 AM EDT


.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:17:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Wow, this site should start running faster now that there will be 1000 less "COLT SUCKS" threads per month. Now all the Colt haters can STFU once and for all. Of course, they'll still accuse colt of being overpriced, yadi yadi yadi, who cares. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it!



Or, Colt could once again be a viable choice for a new rifle purchase. Just maybe...

Still would like to see a press release. Nice and official like, ya know? THAT would shut a lot of folks up, and clarify things.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:38:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rxdawg:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Wow, this site should start running faster now that there will be 1000 less "COLT SUCKS" threads per month. Now all the Colt haters can STFU once and for all. Of course, they'll still accuse colt of being overpriced, yadi yadi yadi, who cares. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it!



Or, Colt could once again be a viable choice for a new rifle purchase. Just maybe...

Still would like to see a press release. Nice and official like, ya know? THAT would shut a lot of folks up, and clarify things.





Why a press release, If were never policy then it would not be "News"


I'm convinced that anyone that say they could'nt get a Colt, never actually tried to get one.
They may not have been on the shelves at the local dealer but all the dealer had to do is call a distributor and order some (ie: Davidsons, SAW, etc...)

I never had a problem

I would however like to see that memo on Colt Leterhead
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:55:04 PM EDT
I don't care.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:56:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:
I don't care.



Guards! Put this man in cell number one, and get him a drink!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:56:16 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:01:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:04:24 PM EDT
This actually means alot to me. I cut my teeth on a Python, put many hundreds of rounds thru it. When I started getting back into shooting alot and went to get an AR I was run off of them by freinds who said they were against civilian ownership. This restores some faith in Colt and I won't dismiss them out of hand.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:57:26 PM EDT
Gee, it got awfully quite around here all of a sudden.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:59:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Wow, this site should start running faster now that there will be 1000 less "COLT SUCKS" threads per month. Now all the Colt haters can STFU once and for all. Of course, they'll still accuse colt of being overpriced, yadi yadi yadi, who cares. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it!




I guess now it's time to start the "Colt LE distributors suck" threads.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:00:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Gee, it got awfully quite around here all of a sudden.



Isn't that what you guys always wanted? For the Colt bashing to stop?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:07:12 PM EDT
Quick, somebody fire off a similar letter to HK...wait, nevermind...I already know what the answer will be...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:09:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Gee, it got awfully quite around here all of a sudden.



Isn't that what you guys always wanted? For the Colt bashing to stop?



One would think, however, some live for hostility on here. They have such abitrary lines in the sand it is unbelievable...
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:15:48 PM EDT
Now if all their pins matched up to something good, they'd be worth having
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:16:49 PM EDT
Hey SteyrAug, group buy?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:17:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ScrubJ:
Now if all their pins matched up to something good, they'd be worth having



The LE models in question do match, and there are adaptors for the civvy ones.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:19:41 PM EDT
Steve:

I've drafted and litigated a few dozen distributorship contracts. I therefore suggest a couple of follow up questions:

1. Did distributor contracts executed by Colt and its distributors during the AWB require the distributors to limit sales in the manner described?

2. If so, has Colt _formally_ notified the distributors operating under those distribution agreements that Colt will not insist on compliance with the outdated provisions associated with the AWB?

3. Does Colt have any comment on the fact that LEO distributors have an incentive to themselves _push_ the outdated rules so as to artifically limit availability and keep their own profit margins high?

4. Does Colt realize that allowing its distributors to artificially limit the market to LEO only is hurting Colt's bottom line?


Unlike you guys, I read that e-mail as a "modified limited hang out." Yes we did it, we don't do it anymore, but the distributors can do whatever they want. (and implicit in that: And they know we like what they are doing). Its a page out of the Demo's books: plausable deniability and lack of responsibilty.

I'd second the call for a "press release." Indeed, I'd like to see SteyrAug's view on this stuff, since he had to PERSONALLY eat many thousands of dollars on a Colt rifle sell based on some of this stuff.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:20:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 3:20:50 PM EDT by BulletBait]
Now all they need to do is bring the price down $300-$400
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:21:44 PM EDT
I've got a bunch of ARs and except for some of the lower receivers they are all Colt.
Best ARs, hands down.


Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:35:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Hey SteyrAug, group buy?




Link Posted: 12/12/2005 3:48:33 PM EDT
Mark Roberts from Colt is a good guy that tries to get the straight poop to the gun buying public. He`s very enthsiastic about Colt products and getting them more visibilty in the market place. He also admits when Colt puts out a less than perfect product and tries to rectify the situation. It would be nice to see him on this board, but he can`t post everywhere and 1911s seem to be his forte`. Seems Colt wants to correct the negative vibes about the Company that are out there. That`s a good sign.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:14:40 PM EDT
So, you're saying Steyr Aug made up all that crap about getting screwed on the Colt group buy thing? Or are you saying Colt just now, recently, quietly, changed their policy? Or maybe "the horse's mouth" is spewing bullshit like usual.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:18:23 PM EDT
Rock River all the way!!



Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:19:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SNorman:
So, you're saying Steyr Aug made up all that crap about getting screwed on the Colt group buy thing? Or are you saying Colt just now, recently, quietly, changed their policy? Or maybe "the horse's mouth" is spewing bullshit like usual.



For my part, I think its a bit of both.

Colt made a decision during the AWB period that was _VERY_ lucrative for its LEO distributors. They are understandably reluctant to share the wealth now. Colt may have changed its policy, but I see nothing of the sort of "cramdown" that usually happens when distributors are limiting sales and the manufacturer doesn't want that happening anymore. In fact, the e-mail in the first post to this thread basically says that Colt's letting the LEO distributors handle this how they want, even if it has the practical effect of denying Colt products to "the peons".

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