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Posted: 1/11/2005 11:09:29 AM EDT
'Grandma' Shot, Killed By Longmont Officer
Police Say Woman Was Suicidal

POSTED: 7:49 a.m. MST January 11, 2005
UPDATED: 12:22 p.m. MST January 11, 2005


Story by thedenverchannel.com

-- Two Longmont police officers are on paid administrative leave while the Weld County Sheriff's Office and district attorney look into the circumstances surrounding the fatal shooting of 61-year-old woman neighbors had affectionately called "Grandma."


The officer-involved shooting happened around 3:30 p.m. at Longview Estates, a rural subdivision on County Road 3.5 and Highway 119, a few miles east of Longmont.

Officers say the woman, identified as Dianne Carlsten, shot at them first outside of her home. Carlsten's landlord told officers she went to check on her tenant's health when Carlsten pointed a gun at her and told her to leave.

As deputies worked to evacuate the neighborhood, they said Carlsten fired three shots out her door -- the first one into the ground.

When Carlsten stepped onto her doorstep and fired twice, pointing her Raven 22-caliber handgun directly at officers, two Longmont officers returned fire.

One officer used a shotgun and another fired a 223 rifle, said Margie Martinez with the Weld County Sheriff's Office.

No officers were injured. Carlsten was pronounced dead on arrival at Longmont United Hospital at 4:30 p.m.

Longmont's police chief is defending the officer's actions while some neighbors are outraged.

"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland. "She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."


"The preliminary assessment seems to indicate very much so that our officers acted in self-defense, reasonably and appropriately," said Longmont Police Chief Mike Butler.

Neighbors said Carlsten recently suffered a stroke and her husband had died. Police had described Carlsten as despondent and suicidal when they talked to her during their telephone negotiations.

There were no reported disturbances at Carlsten's home in the past. The names of the officers involved have not been released.

The neighborhood where the shooting occurred was evacuated for six hours during the investigation.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:13:21 AM EDT

"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland. "She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."



WTF? You don't just come out of your house and start shooting at people. If she's so loving and caring then how come she took potshots at cops?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:13:28 AM EDT
Senile dementia.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:15:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland.



STFU - Suicide by cop


"She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."




And she could have shot the cops trying it.  AGAIN STFU!!!!!!!  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:15:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:18:32 AM EDT
Netting?  would that be gladiator netting or planet of the apes netting? Where do i get some of that netting?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:18:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:18:45 AM EDT
If she started shooting first, she got what she deserved.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:25:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 11:28:21 AM EDT by cyanide]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if she fired on them i don't care if she was confined to a bed on oxygen. you shoot at the cops, you get shot.



Even if they're in the wrong ???
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:29:03 AM EDT
Did they get the dog too?

Seriously, what else could the cops do. Shooting was justified.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:31:24 AM EDT
She shot at them with a raven. I'm surprised she got off more than one shot without a malfunction.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:34:57 AM EDT

 Bad one for everybody. Maybe if they let her shot a few more times she would have been out of ammo and they could have grabbed her. Maybe her next shot would have killed somebody. Maybe if they had waited she would have went in the house after her mag ran dry and they could have talked her out over the next 12-14 hours. Maybe she would have gone back in the house and got a 30-30. It's just fucked up.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:35:02 AM EDT
yup totally justified.  Hey even if it was airsoft they shoulda popped her.  You think you'd learn by that age you dont point anything resembling a gun at a cop.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:35:28 AM EDT

 Bad one for everybody. Maybe if they let her shot a few more times she would have been out of ammo and they could have grabbed her. Maybe her next shot would have killed somebody. Maybe if they had waited she would have went in the house after her mag ran dry and they could have talked her out over the next 12-14 hours. Maybe she would have gone back in the house and got a 30-30. It's just fucked up.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:36:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mleaky:
She shot at them with a raven. I'm surprised she got off more than one shot without a malfunction.



First thing that crossed my mind.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:37:35 AM EDT
Good pop!
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 11:44:48 AM EDT by No_Serfing]
There I was, sitting on my couch knitting, when an obviously disturbed man approached my door. I yelled "BACK OFF NOW!". He said something back through the door about wanting money, so I drew down on him with my .22 Raven. Next thing I know, he has two ninja thugs with machine guns circling my yard. I fired twice but they got me. DAMN.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 11:51:07 AM EDT
Athough the shooting seems to be justfied , i'll bet the officers where highly trained with a good college education ,  and as my father [32 years as a street officer ] would say " college educated with no street -smarts and a lacking of common sense ". In other words DUMB!!!!
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:01:30 PM EDT
Suicide by cop.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:02:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:06:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By grywlf52:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland.



STFU - Suicide by cop


"She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."




And she could have shot the cops trying it.  AGAIN STFU!!!!!!!  



Bean bags probably would have made her brain clot up and a taser would have made her go into MI. Either way, she had it coming. I'm sure she was 'loving and sweet', just not right at that moment....

Kudos to the cops for taking a maniac off the streets.

Ben
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:09:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 12:09:39 PM EDT by Greywolf2112]


One officer used a shotgun and another fired a 223 rifle, said Margie Martinez with the Weld County Sheriff's Office.





Funny - if the perp had used this, it would be called a fully automatic assault rifle.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:18:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Netting?  would that be gladiator netting or planet of the apes netting? Where do i get some of that netting?



Taht would be Predator netting.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:21:22 PM EDT
Sounds like a perfectly justified shooting to me.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:25:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
The danger of having less than lethal weaponry lies in the misperception of the public that it is a replacement for lethal force when confronted with lethal force.




This would not be a problem if the badge thugs were replaced with professional police officers.  

I know that some on here will misread that statement.

BTW, shotar is a badge thug.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:32:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSK:

"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland. "She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."



WTF? You don't just come out of your house and start shooting at people. If she's so loving and caring then how come she took potshots at cops?




Yep.  I don't care if you're shooting at me with a .22 or a .50.  If I've got a 12ga in my hands, you're going to get shot by it.  

The police officers responded as they should have.  She fired on them, and they stopped the threat, not only to themselves, but to bystanders.  Stupid old hag could have hit someone across the street or even further away.  

Good shoot in my book.  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 12:36:08 PM EDT by Grunteled]
Well, sweet, loving ladies don't shoot at people with guns for no reason.  I always get annoyed when people act like just because you are old you can act like a maniac and we should just let 'em be.  No way less-than-lethal force should be deployed when facing a firearm of any caliber or operator of any age.

ETA: I mean 'operator' in the literal sense not the high-speed low-drag sense.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:42:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:


One officer used a shotgun and another fired a 223 rifle, said Margie Martinez with the Weld County Sheriff's Office.





Funny - if the perp had used this, it would be called a fully automatic assault rifle.




So true but the media isnt unbiased.By the way good shoot.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:46:15 PM EDT
I'd have to call this a good shoot. Those officers were in danger, and they defended themselves accordingly.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:50:21 PM EDT
I hope they sleep well.

I don't think she deserved what she got, other options (non-lethal_are available.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:51:21 PM EDT
Ok so at what age can you get away with pointing a gun and firing at someone ?



Never
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
I'd have to call this a good shoot. Those officers were in danger, and they defended themselves accordingly.



yes a good shoot---------- but was it a good thing???
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 12:59:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:07:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 1:08:36 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I hope they sleep well.

I don't think she deserved what she got, other options (non-lethal_are available.



Any police officer who responds to a leathal threat, with a non leathal option, should be diciplined and sent to remedial training, regardless of outcome.  Bad tactics should NEVER be rewarded, regardless of outcome.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:08:40 PM EDT

"A shotgun is not something these Rambo guys need to use to take out a 4½ or 5 foot-tall white-haired lady with," said neighbor Steve Holland. "She's a real loving, caring lady ... This lady walks and moves really, really slow. These guys are trained, and they are going to be proud of taking out an old lady with a shotgun? They could have distracted her. They could have used bean bags, netting or a Taser."

I didn't know that cops needed to make it sporting...
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:09:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 1:14:02 PM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if she fired on them i don't care if she was confined to a bed on oxygen. you shoot at the cops, you get shot.



The beautiful thing about firearms is that even a functional invalid can pose a lethal threat to an attacker with one. If the weapon is aimed at the cops, then it is still a lethal threat to the lives of the officers.

What were they supposed to do? Stand there and let her keep trying until she hit them? And don't get me started on trying to close enough distance for a taser or beanbag round to be effective. This is the problem with the public seeing these snazzy new less lethal weapons. They think that because they saw one used on the Discovery channel once, that they are now capable of determining the appropriate application of said devices.

Most people couldn't find their butt with both hands and a maglite flashlight, much less know about proper use of less lethals.

This old woman may have been a very nice, sweet lady most of the time. That is IRRELEVANT. What was she at the time the officers fired their service weapons? A lady with a gun firing it at the cops. Her previous life story is irrelevant. The cops don't know her, don't know beans about her past, and don't know beans about what is going on in her head.

They DO know that there is a person trying to shoot them, and they rightly shoot back.

It sucks that the person killed in this incident is a 61 year old woman, but the age and gender of the assailant does not make the bullets she was firing less lethal.

If events happened as described in the article, then this was a good shoot because they did what was reasonable and justifiable under the law and under any moral code that makes sense.

This was a really sucky shoot because the guys involved might end up with PSD out of it. Whether some believe it or not, killing a person has an effect on most normal people. It alters their lives. It is one thing to kill a 5th time violent felon in the process of trying to rape and murder a defenseless child, but it is another to have to shoot a 61 year old grandmother who might just be out of her head.

Life sucks.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:11:31 PM EDT
Good shoot.  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:11:55 PM EDT
Sad event. But it sounds like a good shoot to me.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:26:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if she fired on them i don't care if she was confined to a bed on oxygen. you shoot at the cops, you get shot.



Even if they're in the wrong ???



Silly boy! Don't you know cops are never wrong & always know the law?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:40:01 PM EDT
When she ran out of ammo tazer her maybe? Negotiate? Shots had been fired already, why were the officers approaching the bldg. in the open anyways? I just don't see her as much of a threat as they are saying. With the proper leadership, i am sure other options were available. No need to rush that situation imo.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:43:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
if she fired on them i don't care if she was confined to a bed on oxygen. you shoot at the cops, you get shot.



Even if they're in the wrong ???



This time I don't buy it.  Clean kill.  Nothing to do but wait for conspiraces to come out, them I will re-evaluate my opinion..  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 1:48:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
When Carlsten stepped onto her doorstep and fired twice, pointing her Raven 22-caliber handgun directly at officers, two Longmont officers returned fire.

grandma got run over by a shotgun...

holy cow! the raven didn't jam?!?!?!




Probably caus' she wuz aiming it gangsta style- otherwise, they jam....
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:06:23 PM EDT
I suspect she was metally ill or suffered from some sort of degenerative brain condition. Shitty situation, for sure. I side with the fuzz on this one--she could have been Mother Theresa, but if she puts someone in a situation where they must shoot her or be shot, she fucked up and they did what they had to do to survive.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:17:58 PM EDT
Sounds like a justified shoot, but in no way is it a good shoot.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:27:11 PM EDT
He said "maglite".  



Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Most people couldn't find their butt with both hands and a maglite flashlight, much less know about proper use of less lethals.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:28:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mleaky:
She shot at them with a raven. I'm surprised she got off more than one shot without a malfunction.


Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:32:07 PM EDT

One officer used a shotgun and another fired a 223 rifle


So for the Popo, it's merely a rifle...
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:38:46 PM EDT
Seems to be a good shoot.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:50:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tttony:
Athough the shooting seems to be justfied , i'll bet the officers where highly trained with a good college education ,  and as my father [32 years as a street officer ] would say " college educated with no street -smarts and a lacking of common sense ". In other words DUMB!!!!



There is no doubt about it; it was justified. SHOOT AT THE COPS AND EXPECT THEM TO SHOOT BACK AT YOU! Why should the cop care if she is an AARP member?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 2:56:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By tttony:
Athough the shooting seems to be justfied , i'll bet the officers where highly trained with a good college education ,  and as my father [32 years as a street officer ] would say " college educated with no street -smarts and a lacking of common sense ". In other words DUMB!!!!



There is no doubt about it; it was justified. SHOOT AT armed men AND EXPECT THEM TO SHOOT BACK AT YOU! Why should the cop care if she is an AARP member?



Fixed it for you. Not only cops value their lives.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:11:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
When she ran out of ammo tazer her maybe? Negotiate? Shots had been fired already, why were the officers approaching the bldg. in the open anyways? I just don't see her as much of a threat as they are saying. With the proper leadership, i am sure other options were available. No need to rush that situation imo.



Oh come on!   Just let her empty her gun into the neighborhood and chat with her.  How do you know she's not smart enough to reload?  I guess those .22s are just an annoyance to folks in the area huh?  Kinda like bugs...you just swat 'em away.
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