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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 6:09:44 PM EDT
Just spent a bit of time reading about the notorious Cold War spies in the West, from Hanssen to Walker to Philby and the Cambridge five. I'm so pissed I could beat a looney lefty senseless.

The record seems terribly one-sided; dammit, didn't we score any victories on the espionage front? We've heard by now of the Bletchley Park codebreakers cracking Enigma; the various captured enigma machines, and of course, the story of Midway and the ruse with the water purifier, all from WWII. But the public record for the Cold War is pretty pathetic. The one major defector I can recall is Arkady Shevchenko, under secretary general at the UN who defected in the mid-80's.

Are we just better at keeping our mouth shut about our humint victories and more active in shining the spotlight on our scumbags?
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:21:22 PM EDT
You never heard about the ones we won. That's the way we wanted it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:23:18 PM EDT
Oh yes. Pick up the book Blind Man's Bluff, about submarines in the Cold War.

There was a secret Soviet naval base on the Kamchatka peninsula. American figured there must be a secure communications cable between that base and Moscow, and that cable must run underneath the Sea of Ohkost. If we could tap that cable, we'd get a lot of secret uncoded communication. Problem? Where exactly is the cable?

An American officer figured it out. He grew up on the Mississippi river and whenever there were cables run under the river, there were signs on the banks to warn boats not to let their anchors down here. He figured the same must be true in Russia.

So a spy sub prowled the coast until it found such a warning sign. Problem of locating the cable was solved.

A specialized sub landed next to the cable, and divers attached recording devices o the cable. Every month or so, the sub would return, pick up the data, and put a new recorder in place.

The Soviets eventually found out about this during maintenance, and discovered the recording device stamped with MADE IN THE USA attached to the cable.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:23:22 PM EDT
Read "A Man Called Valiant"
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 6:26:22 PM EDT by cool-e]
We got the Red October. Okay, maybe not. But I do remember a show on the History Channel about a tap the US Navy planted on a submerged communicatiions cable in a Soviet naval base. Then there was a tunnel the CIA dug into East Berlin and tapped into a phone line or some damn thing. The CIA built the Glomar Explorer, or was it the Glomar Challenger? I can't remember. But it was used to drag up part of a sunken Soviet sub from the bottom of the Pacific. I am sure we had many victories but the time frame that things like that are kept classified is usually at least 50 years.


ETA: damnit raven. You type faster than I do!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:30:00 PM EDT
They had so many defectors you could not keep count. Most are nameless, but some like Victor Belenko who defected with a Mig25 are known.

Ivy Bells is another victory that would have gone unknown had it not been for Pelton.

It is not a coincidence after getting spanked in VN in the air, just about every US made plane that went up against a USSR plane after about 1975-1980 won, and still does to this day.

F-117 was originally based on tech transfer from USSR.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:31:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 6:32:24 PM EDT by 1Gunner]
Read THE MAIN ENEMY 'the inside story of the CIA's final showdown with the KGB' by Milt Bearden and James Risen, it has all that in there
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:32:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
The Soviets eventually found out about this during maintenance, and discovered the recording device stamped with MADE IN THE USA attached to the cable.



That was Ivy Bells, it was discovered when Ronald Pelton sold out and told the USSR.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:32:33 PM EDT
One of the great ones - was when one of our subs 'tapped' a military communications line. The History Channel did a great show on it. They had to sneak into Soviet waters, find the cable and periodically swap out the tape unit.

IKIRC Since the cable was considered 'secure' they didn't even use codes when they talked over the lines. Great story about our brave submariners.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:37:32 PM EDT
I flew in an aircraft that had the electronic missile signatures of Roosky missiles as part of the electronic warefare suite.

Can't tell you what those missiles are.... were....or what the frequency is....was....

I can tell you what it was.....

ALQ-170 Missile Simulator.


ALT-40 Airborne Jammer Simulator
ALR-75 Electronic Support Measures Surveillance Receiver System


I always wondered how the US "got" those frequencies...
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:44:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
F-117 was originally based on tech transfer from USSR.



Kinda stretching it. The multi faucet panel idea was based on a Soviet scientists theory's. The Soviets didn't think the concpets applied to military tech and allowed him to publish his work.

One of our guys happened to read it and found a way to apply it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:48:27 PM EDT
If I told you... well I'd have to kill you.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:54:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cool-e:
We got the Red October. Okay, maybe not. But I do remember a show on the History Channel about a tap the US Navy planted on a submerged communicatiions cable in a Soviet naval base. Then there was a tunnel the CIA dug into East Berlin and tapped into a phone line or some damn thing. The CIA built the Glomar Explorer, or was it the Glomar Challenger? I can't remember. But it was used to drag up part of a sunken Soviet sub from the bottom of the Pacific. I am sure we had many victories but the time frame that things like that are kept classified is usually at least 50 years.


ETA: damnit raven. You type faster than I do!

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:55:09 PM EDT
That's encouraging. I'll read up those suggestions.

Andy, are you sure of the title? google's not turning up anything on "a man called valiant"
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:02:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cool-e:
We got the Red October. Okay, maybe not. But I do remember a show on the History Channel about a tap the US Navy planted on a submerged communicatiions cable in a Soviet naval base. Then there was a tunnel the CIA dug into East Berlin and tapped into a phone line or some damn thing. The CIA built the Glomar Explorer, or was it the Glomar Challenger? I can't remember. But it was used to drag up part of a sunken Soviet sub from the bottom of the Pacific. I am sure we had many victories but the time frame that things like that are kept classified is usually at least 50 years.


ETA: damnit raven. You type faster than I do!



Project Jennifer.

I am of the opinion that the Glomar Explorer recovered more of that Soviet sub than the U.S. will ever admit.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:07:18 PM EDT
Must have done something right considering we won the cold war.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:31:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:41:12 PM EDT
remember mitchell gant was able to steal the firefox right from the USSR
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:41:59 PM EDT
Yes, we won a bundle of them. We aren't about to talk about mosty of them though for reasons that should be obvious. Just recently, many of the now declassified Venona decrypt have come to light. The amount of Soviet mail we were reading was amazing. That's why Harry Truman didn't commute the sentence of the Rosenbergs.

The military made some amazing intel coups and had some incredible stuff going on during the Cold War. Some day lots more will come out and we'll all be even more amazed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:48:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxxx:
Must have done something right considering we won the cold war.



Damn right! Liberal sell-outs did delay the inevitible, though.

I read in an old copy of SOF that there was a million dollar reward to the first sandinista to delect with a Hind. it kept those gunships grounded for some time.

SOF magazine was the one who offered the reward on behalf of a private party, if I remember right. I consider that to be a small victory in central America.

Scott
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:53:25 PM EDT
Yep, we won lots of the intelligence activities.

Much of that stuff is still classified.

We were always better than the eastern bloc at technical/technology based intelligence. Our abilities with human intelligence were quite good, but since our intelligence services never went defunct, we haven't released a lot of that information.

The Soviets always played the game well. We did, too.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, maybe), I signed a piece of paper several years ago that says I forgot everything I used to know, so I just can't remember any of that stuff.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:54:41 PM EDT
We had a spy on the Plish General Staff. He gave us invaluable information on Warsaw Pact war plans.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:55:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Oh yes. Pick up the book Blind Man's Bluff, about submarines in the Cold War.

There was a secret Soviet naval base on the Kamchatka peninsula. American figured there must be a secure communications cable between that base and Moscow, and that cable must run underneath the Sea of Ohkost. If we could tap that cable, we'd get a lot of secret uncoded communication. Problem? Where exactly is the cable?

An American officer figured it out. He grew up on the Mississippi river and whenever there were cables run under the river, there were signs on the banks to warn boats not to let their anchors down here. He figured the same must be true in Russia.

So a spy sub prowled the coast until it found such a warning sign. Problem of locating the cable was solved.

A specialized sub landed next to the cable, and divers attached recording devices o the cable. Every month or so, the sub would return, pick up the data, and put a new recorder in place.

The Soviets eventually found out about this during maintenance, and discovered the recording device stamped with MADE IN THE USA attached to the cable.



Beat me to it.

Great book. My brother in law was a submariner on the SSBN Patrick Henry. I gave him the book, and he loved it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:00:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmick325:

Project Jennifer.

I am of the opinion that the Glomar Explorer recovered more of that Soviet sub than the U.S. will ever admit.




I always thought it was nice that they gave the Russian sailors they recovered a proper Russian burial at sea.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:04:58 PM EDT
The whole floor of the North Atlantic is lined with listening devices. We can triangulate on any submarine anywhere in that part of the ocean. They also recorded a lot of what are called biologics, or animal noises. A few years ago the military allowed some biologists to listen to some of what they recorded to see if they could determine what was making the noises. In may cases, they had never heard anything like them before.

When the submaring Scorpion sank, we knew the exact location of the sinking the day it sank. To reveal that knowledge so quickly would have compromised the network of undersea listening devices. So a several month search was conducted before the wreckage of the sub was "found".
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:19:29 PM EDT
So the answer is that I'll have to grow old and feeble before I get to hear the good stories. Ah well.
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