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Posted: 6/17/2002 9:52:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 9:57:10 AM EDT
I have had to put several employees through various treatment programs. It's not the program that fails, it's the person and their willingness to kick the habit and get onboard with society.

That being said, the only sure fire treatment is a shovel to the forehead anytime they think of 'falling off'.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:11:02 AM EDT
I have had to put several employees through various treatment programs. It's not the program that fails, it's the person and their willingness to kick the habit and get onboard with society.

That being said, the only sure fire treatment is a shovel to the forehead anytime they think of 'falling off'.
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GF is right....speaking from experience..its all up to the person. Its hard....its damn hard.
Its easy to be angry and even hate an addict after he/she has ripped your heart out so many times...and sometimes you just have to let them self destruct, BUT.. underneath that scumbag, there is a person that wants to get out and be normal again. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:14:43 AM EDT
You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.  Stop trying to help this guy.  
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:23:36 AM EDT
I had a friend who was a coke/meth addict and went through the same situation as you describe
the only thing my friends and I could do for him was buy him a plane ticket and get him out of his environment he was lucky to have family in another state. I know your friend can and will meet people in another state that use coke but at least he will have a much harder time finding it and that could cause him to maybe straighten up otherwise he is prison bound and belive me there is plenty of coke in prison.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:29:22 AM EDT
Don't let your GF/Fiancee drag you down with this loser.  When/If you marry, you will inherit her debt, which will undoubtedly consist of the bills for his "treatment."  And we're not talking about student loan bills, either.  That's your future financial security - your car, your house, your retirement or your kids' college tuition.  She needs to know this up front, as it might prevent her from making a huge financial mistake.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:59:45 AM EDT
DK, IF you want this guy to get better, the ONLY thing you can do is to get your relatives to STOP paying for his sh1t RIGHT NOW.  He has no incentive to quit...why should he when somebody covers his debts.

He needs to 'hit his bottom', and with cocaine even then the tendency to repeat once cured is high compared to other chemical dependencies.  His Mom and Dad will NOT help him stay out of trouble and is not 'helping him' in the slightest.  It's also doubtful that your fiancee will help him with a treatment program until and unless he's bugged enough himself to quit.  Your fifth paragraph says it all...he needs to be left alone until he is either ready to quit or kills himself with his habit.  Sorry for the answer, but if there was ever a justification for 'tough love',coke is it.

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:11:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:24:10 AM EDT
[b]Alanon[/b], for you and your soon-to-be bride.  Sooner, rather than later is better.

You'll meet lots of people who are there/have been there and can offer guidance.

Cocaine/speed addiction isn't like any other.  My advice is don't get your hopes up for any miracles, and protect you and yours.

Best of luck!
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:41:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 11:58:05 AM EDT
This is not a simple problem.  Generally, addicts have additional mental or emotional problems that caused them to start using drugs. Speaking from personal experience it is hard to help someone when they continue their destructive behavior.  It sounds if as his/your family had already done a lot. Do what you can but don't let him pull you down too.

Do you get the impression that he is trying to overcome his problem?    
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:03:40 PM EDT
My family and I are going through this right now, and it really sucks.
My older brother (age 43) has not been able to put down straw,pipe,bottle or what ever for longer than a year or two out of the last twenty some odd years.
One of the many sad things is that this guy is very intellegent and when he puts his mind to he makes bank.
Last week at my Moms house he took all her jewlery and stole her fucking car.
What a piece of shit.
My mom has offered to pay for rehab but he wants no part of it.
He is sitting in jail right now.
Hopefully he will be forced into some kind of program.
I have no illusions that anything will change his behavior other than himself, and I have even lost all hope of that.
He is a waste of life and we would have been better off with out him (harsh but true. It's been over 20 years of this shit).
The only good thing out of our family's situation is that all our kids are very anti drug.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:14:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:26:54 PM EDT
Do you know there are 253 reads on this post and 11 replies. I wonder if that means anything..

NA...NA....NA...NA... Also AA...AA...AA...AA
This is one Toll he has to use and understand I say HE has to use. If he is not willing to:

1)That he is powerless over his addiction, that his life has become unmanageable.

2)Come to Believe in a Power greater than himself could restore him to sanity

3) MADE a decision to turn his will and life over to the care of God as he understands him.

Then he has a hard road ahead of him. Yes there are another 4 Steps to go with that. But these three are the foundation to get out of the INSANITY.

He needs the Rehab along with the program, He needs to find a Sponsor. One who will not take his Bull Crap.

HE needs to make 30 meetings in 30 days one meeting a day and the rest will take care of it self.

He needs to take One Day at a Time and realize the it is a Disease he has that is INCURABLE. It is like Diabetes and he needs medicine. That medicine is the Brotherhood and Sisterhood of NA & AA. Those 3 steps are actually with (WE) and  (Ourselves) in it instead of Him. But he must take that first step get into a meeting in Rehab and raise his hand. Sit there with his mouth shut and Learn to listen and Listen to Learn.

That's my advise and all you and his parents can do is support him morally not financially. His Girl friend should put the wedding on hold. She must Separate with Love. HE must take the first steps alone.  
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:28:11 PM EDT
Lots of good advise here..  Let go!!   I told my family member this.."I love you but can't stand to see you destroying yourself and those around you, so I won't be contacting you any more and don't bother to call me until you have your life in control".. Had I given him money, he would have just spent it on more drugs..
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:37:47 PM EDT
My brother-in-law was the same way. Had a good job making nearly $30 an hour. It was more important to go down the street and suck on his pipe than it was to go to work. His parents and the rest of the family finally quit bailing him out. He wound up spending three years in Folsom for drug possesion and theft.
I haven't spoken to him since he got out a couple of months ago, but my wife has. She seems to think that prison did him some good and that he is getting his life straightened out.
I have serious doubts, but three years is a long time to be off the drugs. He is on parole or probation, I'm not sure which.
He lost his wife, two kids, and everything he owned.
Maybe my life ain't so wasted, after all.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:38:41 PM EDT
A number of years ago I hit rock bottom.  It never really occured to me how bad I was hurting people stealing, lying, all that crap.  In fact I don't even remember acknowledging all the hearts I broke while on the shit.  While at that level it didn't really matter.
I can't tell you what changed because to be honest that whole time was just a blurr.  Something happened to my supply.  I somehow managed to stay clean for a couple weeks, and then it's like I just woke up and felt guilty for all the awful crap I did.  
I do know I can never go into a room with cocaine in it ever again.  I also has to dis-associate myself with that entire crowd, not that they really miss me anyway.  All I can tell you to help you is gonna break your heart.  All anyone is doing is cleaning up after your brother in law.  What WILSON said is right, except you don't want to be anywhere around when he crashes, and it'll be more than once.  He'll say he's listening to you, and he'll do anything you tell him if you help him.  Most of the time it's not true, and you'll probably never be able to tell the difference.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:45:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 12:51:09 PM EDT
The only thing you can do is walk away.  As others have said, you can't help someone who doesn't want help.  How would you feel if someone told you to destroy all your guns and give all your free time and money to socialist groups?  That's how much you're asking from him.  It's not going to happen.  He does cocaine because it makes him feel good.  Many people ignore that point.  It feels so good to him that the affect it has on everyone else is completely irrelevant.  His parents need to realize that they're helping cause the problem, not solve it.  There are worse things than having a son going to prison.  Like being asked to ID the bloated body at the morgue.

I hope I haven't come across to harsh.  I have a friend who's been in a similar downward spiral for years.  I knew a long time ago that the only way I could help is to still be around if he ever wants to climb back out of his hole.  The only way to do that is to not be involved at all in any of the crap that goes on in the meantime.  Not everyone makes it that far.  Some people will die from their addiction.  Those people can't be saved, but they can take others with them.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 2:00:19 PM EDT
Quoted: Do you know there are 253 reads on this post and 11 replies. I wonder if that means anything...
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Dude... we thought he was *dispensing* it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 2:39:43 PM EDT
Do you know there are 253 reads on this post and 11 replies. I wonder if that means anything..
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Perhaps that means people understand the severity of the situation and are not inclined to offer advice lightly.

I am no expert, but in the situations I have seen, it's worth it to pay to get them into a program, but if they screw up, you basically have to cut them off altogether. The last thing you need is to be dragged down with him.

Everyone has their demons. Invariably, we have to tackle them alone.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 2:44:10 PM EDT
He has to crash.
Hitting bottom is different for everyone, for him it might be six feet under.

Except for scoring, he has [b]no[/b] will, [b]no[/b] incentive, and [b]no[/b] interest(s). They've been gone for awhile now.

The only thing you can still do (and it sounds too late) is [i]try[/i] to dissuade any more well-meaning but misguided loved ones from supplying financial support.


[i]This sounds unimportant, but it's not,
A lot later (if he makes it) -- don't judge. That's not your job.[/i]

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This is true. It is hard to cut-off a family member but sometimes it was to be done.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:06:43 PM EDT
My name is Sgtar15 and I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addict.  I have 4 1/2 years sober, so I think I may know what I am talking about.  For years people would tell me that I had a drinking/drug problem but I never listened.  My wife finally left me and things got even worse.  It wasn't until people stopped carrying my ass that I really hit bottom, this took some time since people thought if they just loved me enough I would stop for them.

I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous 11 years ago but even then I wasn't really serious about stopping drinking or drugs.  It took several relaspes before I fully understood the true nature of this disease.  This family member may not stay clean from this treatment but it should at least put the idea in his head that he has a real problem.  Later down the road when he is completely down and out he will remember the stuff he learned in treatment, thats what happened with me.  Once I knew my ass was whipped and drugs/alcohol was my master I then knew where to go to get help.

Alcoholism/drug addiction is a disease, not just of the body but also the mind.  Even thought someone is clean for a period of time they still are diseased, unless they replace it with a spiritual solution that changes their whole approach to life itself. Alcoholics/addicts do not process the chemicals like regular people.  Regular people get a little tipsy and stop drinking/druging because they don't want to get sick.  Diseased people are just getting started and love this feeling, they couldn't control it even if they wanted to.

In short, help this guy out if he really wants to stop, but if he doesn't then tell him to move on.  And pray for him as he is a sick man.  Sick, but still responsible for his actions.

If you want to talk more about this or have any other questions feel free to IM me.  I will help in anyway I can.

Good Luck

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:11:11 PM EDT

You have my sympathy, DK. I've watched alcohol and drugs destroy many people I've loved. Currently, I have a cousin determined to commit suicide by heroin.

Many other posters have waxed longer than I can on what needs to be done, but it will be hard.

my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:23:34 PM EDT
I know a old friend that had a medical discharge from Vietnam because of a Heroin addiction started there.He had so many ups and downs after that,all while on the stuff,his life was like a boat at sea.He's now dead because of it.You can't help those that won't help themselves,no matter what.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:25:47 PM EDT
DK-Prof, this sounds exactly like my older adopted brother.  He spent his life drinking, drugging and whoring until it killed him.  He wasted away until there was nothing to him and he died of liver cancer.  He went through treatment several times, bilking our father for money every time.

Eventually, it took our father dying and my "brother" being diagnosed with liver cancer before he got his life in order.  In the 10 years since our father died I had talked to him once, and that was two weeks before he died.  He wanted forgiveness, and I had none to offer him.  He's now dead and gone, and I never shed a tear for him.

The best way to deal with people who do not want help is to let them implode.  It's not pretty, and some may argue it's not humane, but it's impossible to rehab anyone who doesn't want to be fixed.  If they don't see their drug use as a problem, then they will continue to use drugs.  Sadly, letting them implode sometimes doesn't have a happy ending, but it's the best chance to get them back on track.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 3:59:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 7:59:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 8:40:21 PM EDT
Uh, there is a new drug for treating cocaine addiction.  It's like a vaccine.  It changes your brain chemistry/neural functions so that it's impossible to get high from cocaine, and stops the craving for it.  I dont know who developed it, but I'm sure it'll be ready for clinical use soon.
Link Posted: 6/17/2002 9:26:32 PM EDT
For instance, he snuck a cell phone into the treatment center - violating their explicit rules - on the first day.  Maybe I'm just being to harsh, but that doesn't seem like someone who really wants help.  He also kept a list for the first week of all the things the councellors were doing "wrong" - I thought that was odd, and indicative of a pretty negative attitude.
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No, I don't think you are being to harsh.  I think you are right on the mark here.  People who keep list like that usually aren't willing to look at there own problems IMHO.

Thanks for all your replies - and for your stories.

Cereal-Killer and sgtar15 - you brought tears to my eyes.  Congratulations on your fight.  Hopefully he'll one day be as strong and insightful as you.

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LMAO, it had nothing to do with me being strong or insightful, I just got tired of having my ass kicked day in and day out.

Link Posted: 6/17/2002 10:46:14 PM EDT
Don't enable him.  Don't give him a thin dime.  good advice given in this thread - listen to it - I won't bore you with repeating it.  Tell your brother-in-law's loved ones that if they help him financially, that they are doing him NO favors.  Don't enable him.

Your brother-in-law will only change when he becomes sick of himself and hits his own, personal bottom.

oops - I'm repeating what's been said....

Got 9 years clean and sober myself - thank you, God.  Been there - done that - pray to God I don't ever choose to go back.  I don't have to as long as I maintain my "spiritual awakening".

Howdy to all my fellow non-practicing AR15.com alkys & dopers.  Keep coming back!

Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:15:20 AM EDT
sgtar15...Congratulations and like we say KEEP ON COMING..it only gets better. Now 28 days is a good place to start. I don't know what medical Insurance he has or his parents have. What he needs is a Good 6 month to 1 Year in house treatment program.

28 days is not long enough to keep him clean. It might be long enough to start getting the physical sickness out. I hope the follow up is 1 or 2 times a week having to go and sit in a meeting at the place. I also hope he finds a Home Group and a Sponsor to take him through the Steps. He also needs to be piss tested once a week. If he is dirty he will be sent away for a longer period of time or lose his job Now his Girl friend and parents need to sit and talk wit other families who have loved ones going through this also. Drug addiction is a Family disease. It affects everyone has you realize. The family members need support also. They need to hear how to deal with this. They cannot do it alone.

I am glad to see others adding to this. It shows that you are not alone and that there is HOPE. I will pray for him and hope that he sees that. He doesn't have to live like that anymore.
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