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Posted: 3/26/2009 4:41:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 4:53:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 4:54:04 PM EDT by DonS]
The mother-in-law was complaining about teacher saleries. She was helping out at our public school in several classes with my sons. She decided it was wrong that the likes of Madonna make much more than teachers.

I explained that what you earn is based upon the value you provide to others, and that it is up to the consumer (employeer) to decide the products (employees) value, it isn't up to a third party to decide value. It comes down to having a right to your labor. I don't think she got it.

I also pointed out that the teacher has ~20 customers over the course of a year (at a given time), while Modonna could have millions of customers. So even if Modonna provides little value per customer, it is multiplied by millions, the teacher may provide high value but only to ~20 people at a time . . . my wife at least understood this. Mother-in-law remained stuck on stupid.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:00:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I posted a thread today about the resignation letter published by one of the AIG execs. The replies on the NYT website were disgusting:

It's the usual "Boohoo - I don't make as much money as you do, and I think you're being paid to much in the first place!"

Excuse my language, but WHAT GIVES YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS THE GODDAMNRIGHT TO DICTATE HOW MUCH MONEY SOMEONE EARNS? I had this same argumentwith a libtard at work while we're sitting Taco Cabana. When he saidthat, I told him "Why don't we let the janitor over there determine howmuch YOU should be allowed to earn?" The fucking class envy issickening; not only that, but the presumption that because you onlymake $50K a year gives you the right to criticize someone making sixfigures - for every one of the fucktards making $50K presuming to tellsomeone else how much they should earn, there's a guy making $15K thatwould just LOVE to tell you how much YOU should make.

"I'm happy if I can tear you down to my level" - it's a fucking disgsuting sentiment.


Green for envy instead of the usual red.

But that comment right there is the crux of the liberal agenda 99% of the time. Someone in life made pisspoor choices and is reaping the consequences so someone who made smart choices has to suffer in order that the poor choice-maker doesn't feel bad or inadequate.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:01:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
The mother-in-law was complaining about teacher saleries. She was helping out at our public school in several classes with my sons. She decided it was wrong that the likes of Madonna make much more than teachers.

I explained that what you earn is based upon the value you provide to others, and that it is up to the consumer (employeer) to decide the products (employees) value, it isn't up to a third party to decide value. It comes down to having a right to your labor. I don't think she got it.

I also pointed out that the teacher has ~20 customers over the course of a year (at a given time), while Modonna could have millions of customers. So even if Modonna provides little value per customer, it is multiplied by millions, the teacher may provide high value but only to ~20 people at a time . . . my wife at least understood this. Mother-in-law remained stuck on stupid.


yes––-motherin laws do that....
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:05:17 PM EDT
I'm just disappointed so many on ARFCOM fell for the AIG bonus fiasco so easily.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:11:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:17:48 PM EDT
The only thing that'll happen if the rich get screwed is that they'll buy less stuff (which means less money for the people who produce and sell the stuff), or they might not remodel their homes (fewer jobs for the people who do the remodeling or produce the materials) or go on fewer vacations (hurting the people employed in the airline and leisure industries) or invest less (hindering the growth of companies that actually produce jobs) or move their businesses overseas......

You get the idea.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:19:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:52:57 PM EDT
yea, really, if your making $ legaly, its cause you earned it. The amoung is based on your worth, if im not making as much as you, someone thinks your worth more than me, end of story. Live with it. Good post OP.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 5:56:05 PM EDT
Class Envy - It's not just for breakfast anymore.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:01:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I posted a thread today about the resignation letter published by one of the AIG execs. The replies on the NYT website were disgusting:

It's the usual "Boohoo - I don't make as much money as you do, and I think you're being paid to much in the first place!"

Excuse my language, but WHAT GIVES YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS THE GODDAMNRIGHT TO DICTATE HOW MUCH MONEY SOMEONE EARNS? I had this same argumentwith a libtard at work while we're sitting Taco Cabana. When he saidthat, I told him "Why don't we let the janitor over there determine howmuch YOU should be allowed to earn?" The fucking class envy issickening; not only that, but the presumption that because you onlymake $50K a year gives you the right to criticize someone making sixfigures - for every one of the fucktards making $50K presuming to tellsomeone else how much they should earn, there's a guy making $15K thatwould just LOVE to tell you how much YOU should make.

"I'm happy if I can tear you down to my level" - it's a fucking disgsuting sentiment.


Not a bad rant. Class envy is usually an idea pushed by those who don't have a better dog and pony show at the moment and realize jealously is a powerful emotion among the masses who inhabit the lower levels of the wage earning pyramid.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:04:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lsujim:
I'm just disappointed so many on ARFCOM fell for the AIG bonus fiasco so easily.


+1

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:04:27 PM EDT
7/10

Point well made.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:05:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I posted a thread today about the resignation letter published by one of the AIG execs. The replies on the NYT website were disgusting:

It's the usual "Boohoo - I don't make as much money as you do, and I think you're being paid to much in the first place!"

Excuse my language, but WHAT GIVES YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS THE GODDAMNRIGHT TO DICTATE HOW MUCH MONEY SOMEONE EARNS? I had this same argumentwith a libtard at work while we're sitting Taco Cabana. When he saidthat, I told him "Why don't we let the janitor over there determine howmuch YOU should be allowed to earn?" The fucking class envy issickening; not only that, but the presumption that because you onlymake $50K a year gives you the right to criticize someone making sixfigures - for every one of the fucktards making $50K presuming to tellsomeone else how much they should earn, there's a guy making $15K thatwould just LOVE to tell you how much YOU should make.

"I'm happy if I can tear you down to my level" - it's a fucking disgsuting sentiment.


Damn right! There's always someone who thinks your life is the dream. perhaps we (myself especially) should appreciate what we have more and worry about others who are happy less.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:06:47 PM EDT
Good rant.


And the sad truth is that these leftist fucks can criticize him all they want... but that doesn't change the fact that he's quitting. And alot more will be joining him or working for foreign firms. Atlas shrugs again.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:11:11 PM EDT
Moreover, it's the people making six figures or more that provide the jobs for everyone else. Liberals never understand that the wealthy build the companies, pay the wages, and buy the products; that the wealthy, not the state empoyees, drive the economy.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:24:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lsujim:
I'm just disappointed so many on ARFCOM fell for the AIG bonus fiasco so easily.


+1

this place has been getting really liberal lately
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:28:44 PM EDT
I agree.

A) They had preexisting contracts which needed to be adhered to. If they didn't whats to say that if you had an AIG insurance policy and got into an accident, they wouldn't just say "Oh sorry, we know we had a contract with you, but we took bailout money so we're not going to be paying on this claim".

B) If you GIVE someone some money, unless you have an agreement or (here it comes again) a CONTRACT with them, you have no fucking right to tell them how to spend it.

This bailout is just further evidence of this society attempting to reverse natural selection in all things in order to promote the weak and punish the strong in all aspects of life.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:35:25 PM EDT
I believe in the free market

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

Do we have a free market anymore? Kindly explain where it exists as your government overlords spend your great-grandchildren's money.

Can you guys honestly not see this swindle for what it is?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:37:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 6:39:29 PM EDT by Automaton]
Originally Posted By LOW2000:
I agree.

A) They had preexisting contracts which needed to be adhered to. If they didn't whats to say that if you had an AIG insurance policy and got into an accident, they wouldn't just say "Oh sorry, we know we had a contract with you, but we took bailout money so we're not going to be paying on this claim".

B) If you GIVE someone some money, unless you have an agreement or (here it comes again) a CONTRACT with them, you have no fucking right to tell them how to spend it.

This bailout is just further evidence of this society attempting to reverse natural selection in all things in order to promote the weak and punish the strong in all aspects of life.



So this shitty bank is about to fail, and the government takes your tax money and keeps it afloat, and you regard that as a shining example of survival of the fittest?

Thanks for the laffs.

Remember how swell this all is next year when this same bank is accepting another bailout "gift" from the american taxpayer
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:41:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:42:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 6:43:22 PM EDT by Automaton]
Originally Posted By sebois:
Moreover, it's the people making six figures or more that provide the jobs for everyone else. Liberals never understand that the wealthy build the companies, pay the wages, and buy the products; that the wealthy, not the state empoyees, drive the economy.



You guys are mixing two ideas.

You're taking your completely justified hatred of liberal fuckwads and using it to justify this fucking unholy swindle.

Our country will be generations recovering from this fiasco.

Let me help you out here: there is no actual capitalism to be seen anywhere near this deal.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:46:34 PM EDT
Right on Zhukov!

The bailout is over and done with. Let's please try to salvage some semblance of capitalism rather than staying the course of socialism.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 6:53:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 7:59:58 PM EDT by rippersde50]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By Automaton:

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

The problem is that the people who are getting paid the bonuses made a contract ONE YEAR ago before there was not taxpayer/government intervention.


And if he was truthful in his letter, he was working for one dollar(along with others). The bonuses were the payment they were suppose to receive for staying to try and work AIG through the mess. No one is going to work for free, and no one should expect them to.

If they did not receive the bailout and the company fell, those bonuses would still have been paid.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:02:13 PM EDT
Oh Fuck, Another Worship the Rich thread.
They are sooo much better than you...
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:09:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Right on Zhukov!

The bailout is over and done with. Let's please try to salvage some semblance of capitalism rather than staying the course of socialism.


I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but please explain.

If a company has a division that loses a shitheap of money, they either go out of business or they borrow money and fix the problem.

That's capitalism.

The bailout is pure communism.

Are we supposed to feel bad because a badly run private company is so fucked up that the executives are resigning in disgust?

If the retards that voted for Obama are fucking with this bank, that's the cost of taking the bailout money.

If they want to suck at the retarded public tit, they're going to have to deal with obama's opportunism.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:10:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Class Envy - It's not just for breakfast CAMPAIGNS anymore.


Fixed

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:11:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Right on Zhukov!

The bailout is over and done with. Let's please try to salvage some semblance of capitalism rather than staying the course of socialism.


Mutually damned exclusive...and THAT'S the freaking PROBLEM.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:16:21 PM EDT
Very unique idea for a thread.

I don't believe we have ever discussed this here.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:21:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Automaton:
I believe in the free market

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

Do we have a free market anymore? Kindly explain where it exists as your government overlords spend your great-grandchildren's money.

Can you guys honestly not see this swindle for what it is?


Did the employees voluntarily become government employees? It seems to me that since the worker bees didn't ever apply to become government employees that if you are saying they are, it can only be by slavery.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:22:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Automaton:
Originally Posted By LOW2000:
I agree.

A) They had preexisting contracts which needed to be adhered to. If they didn't whats to say that if you had an AIG insurance policy and got into an accident, they wouldn't just say "Oh sorry, we know we had a contract with you, but we took bailout money so we're not going to be paying on this claim".

B) If you GIVE someone some money, unless you have an agreement or (here it comes again) a CONTRACT with them, you have no fucking right to tell them how to spend it.

This bailout is just further evidence of this society attempting to reverse natural selection in all things in order to promote the weak and punish the strong in all aspects of life.



So this shitty bank is about to fail, and the government takes your tax money and keeps it afloat, and you regard that as a shining example of survival of the fittest?

Thanks for the laffs.

Remember how swell this all is next year when this same bank is accepting another bailout "gift" from the american taxpayer

Read what I said again, then give posting something that makes sense another try.


Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:31:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LOW2000:

Originally Posted By Automaton:
Originally Posted By LOW2000:
I agree.

A) They had preexisting contracts which needed to be adhered to. If they didn't whats to say that if you had an AIG insurance policy and got into an accident, they wouldn't just say "Oh sorry, we know we had a contract with you, but we took bailout money so we're not going to be paying on this claim".

B) If you GIVE someone some money, unless you have an agreement or (here it comes again) a CONTRACT with them, you have no fucking right to tell them how to spend it.

This bailout is just further evidence of this society attempting to reverse natural selection in all things in order to promote the weak and punish the strong in all aspects of life.



So this shitty bank is about to fail, and the government takes your tax money and keeps it afloat, and you regard that as a shining example of survival of the fittest?

Thanks for the laffs.

Remember how swell this all is next year when this same bank is accepting another bailout "gift" from the american taxpayer

Read what I said again, then give posting something that makes sense another try.



we'll talk again next year when this noble fountainhead of capitalism is back for another "gift" from your great great grandchildren.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:36:44 PM EDT
[

You guys are mixing two ideas.

You're taking your completely justified hatred of liberal fuckwads and using it to justify this fucking unholy swindle.

Our country will be generations recovering from this fiasco.

Let me help you out here: there is no actual capitalism to be seen anywhere near this deal.



Thats about the best way I've ever heard this mess put in words.

As far as contracts. Thats a very simple matter. Get the best attorney you can afford and head to court to resolve the matter. You really don't think this is the first time a contract has been broke do you?

Some of you wanting to help these poor soles can start a website and take up collections to send these poor guys

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:39:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By westmanm:
Originally Posted By Automaton:
I believe in the free market

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

Do we have a free market anymore? Kindly explain where it exists as your government overlords spend your great-grandchildren's money.

Can you guys honestly not see this swindle for what it is?


Did the employees voluntarily become government employees? It seems to me that since the worker bees didn't ever apply to become government employees that if you are saying they are, it can only be by slavery.


No, what I'm saying is:

If you want to dance arm in arm with our socialist retard of a president, dont complain when he starts boning you in the ass.

You cannot have a no-rules-socialist-big-government-fuckfest one day and have a private, capitalist company the next day.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:42:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Automaton:
Originally Posted By westmanm:
Originally Posted By Automaton:
I believe in the free market

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

Do we have a free market anymore? Kindly explain where it exists as your government overlords spend your great-grandchildren's money.

Can you guys honestly not see this swindle for what it is?


Did the employees voluntarily become government employees? It seems to me that since the worker bees didn't ever apply to become government employees that if you are saying they are, it can only be by slavery.


No, what I'm saying is:

If you want to dance arm in arm with our socialist retard of a president, dont complain when he starts boning you in the ass.

You cannot have a no-rules-socialist-big-government-fuckfest one day and have a private, capitalist company the next day.



I would agree if it was just the one who'd name was on the line getting boned. But the person being boned did not have a saying in this matter.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:21:28 PM EDT
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:43:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By Automaton:

When a company is involved in the current bail-out strip mining operation on the american taxpayer, they are not in the free market anymore.

Now they're government employees, and as such they can all go fuck themselves.

The problem is that the people who are getting paid the bonuses made a contract ONE YEAR ago before there was not taxpayer/government intervention.


And if the intervention had not occurred then these people's bonuses wouldn't have been paid. We gave AIG money to keep the wolves from tearing it apart because they were bleeding money through poor investments and supposedly letting them sink would have destroyed the entire economy. We didn't give AIG money so that the execs could pay themselves hundreds of millions of dollars.

Like I said, ol' Jake is crying that he's being unfairly demonized since he didn't have anything to do with the purchase of the contaminated securities. Well, what about the people who lost their jobs? What about the secretaries, analysts, brokers, agents, accountants, salesmen, etc. who spent years there and are now going to get (or have already gotten) pink slips because of this fiasco? Were they responsible for AIG's purchase of these securities? Did some of them not make sacrifices for the company over the years they worked there? Who is backing them up? Who is defending them? Who is helping them out? They are getting the axe without a nickle in TARP funded bonus money and Jake is crying that people are picking on him. No one is paying any attention to the guys who are losing EVERYTHING and NOT getting a $750,000 bonus funded by the taxpayer. How would you like to be the guy with 20 years at AIG who walked in to find out that your unit just got sold to UBS and they were cutting your job at a time when jobs are scarce and your investments are worthless because the stock market is in the crapper, and then you turn on Rush Limbaugh to hear about what a hero the guy who sold you to UBS and cost you your job and how badly he deserves his $750,000 bonus?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:45:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:47:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Automaton:
Originally Posted By sebois:
Moreover, it's the people making six figures or more that provide the jobs for everyone else. Liberals never understand that the wealthy build the companies, pay the wages, and buy the products; that the wealthy, not the state empoyees, drive the economy.



You guys are mixing two ideas.

You're taking your completely justified hatred of liberal fuckwads and using it to justify this fucking unholy swindle.

Our country will be generations recovering from this fiasco.

Let me help you out here: there is no actual capitalism to be seen anywhere near this deal.



No shit. You're right no matter what some fuckup on talk radio says.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:49:32 PM EDT
The left has been brainwashed with this class warfare crap forever.

And the right is doing the exact same thing. A guy who makes $30K turns on his favorite conservative talk show and is told he should feel bad for the unfortunate executive who isn't getting his $750K bonus after running his company into bankruptcy.

It's laughable. Fuck 'em both.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:49:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Don't fall for the usual bullshit maneuver that says says you can only be pissed off about the bailout or the bonuses but not both.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:51:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Right on Zhukov!

The bailout is over and done with. Let's please try to salvage some semblance of capitalism rather than staying the course of socialism.


Mutually damned exclusive...and THAT'S the freaking PROBLEM.

I agree. However, the sooner people will accept the fact that there has been a bailout, which was wrong the sooner we can move on to eliminating future bailouts.

I read today that BO will be setting up the big 3 with yet more money so that they might squander it and need a 3rd bailout in a few more months. Perhaps if everyone was bitching about this rather than money people earned via contract we could put an end to all this.

If people want to limit the money anyone can make who works at a bailed out institution that's fine. Make it a dollar a year for even the mail room clerk, let if fail and pat yourselves on the back.

If
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:00:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Except that AIG didn't take the people's money. The government did. You're blaming the wrong people. The subject of this discussion should be the government. Not the "wealthy executives."
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:02:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Except that AIG didn't take the people's money. The government did. You're blaming the wrong people. The subject of this discussion should be the government. Not the "wealthy executives."

Not to mention the fact that many people getting hosed in this situation had nothing to do with the company's failure, nor were they responsible for making the "choice" to take the money.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:03:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Don't fall for the usual bullshit maneuver that says says you can only be pissed off about the bailout or the bonuses but not both.



Why would you be pissed off about someone else's salary? They signed the contract they were offered or negotiated for.

The real anger should be directed at the government for bailing anyone out with your money. How many AIG executives voted for the bailout bill? Zero.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:05:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I posted a thread today about the resignation letter published by one of the AIG execs. The replies on the NYT website were disgusting:

It's the usual "Boohoo - I don't make as much money as you do, and I think you're being paid to much in the first place!"

Excuse my language, but WHAT GIVES YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS THE GODDAMNRIGHT TO DICTATE HOW MUCH MONEY SOMEONE EARNS? I had this same argumentwith a libtard at work while we're sitting Taco Cabana. When he saidthat, I told him "Why don't we let the janitor over there determine howmuch YOU should be allowed to earn?" The fucking class envy issickening; not only that, but the presumption that because you onlymake $50K a year gives you the right to criticize someone making sixfigures - for every one of the fucktards making $50K presuming to tellsomeone else how much they should earn, there's a guy making $15K thatwould just LOVE to tell you how much YOU should make.

"I'm happy if I can tear you down to my level" - it's a fucking disgsuting sentiment.


Hell, I wish I made $15k a year...
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:13:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 9:14:45 PM EDT by motown_steve]
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Except that AIG didn't take the people's money. The government did. You're blaming the wrong people. The subject of this discussion should be the government. Not the "wealthy executives."


That is false!

AIG BEGGED the government to give them my money! Begged them on hands and knees, and when the government gave it to them they paid themselves nice fat bonuses with it. The government didn't just up and say, "Hey, you boys look like you could use a few hundred billion dollars! Here y'all are!"

No, AIG went to Uncle Sam like Oliver Twist and begged for this money! They asked for it, they took it and they spent it! They are just as much to blame as the government that agreed to hand the money over!
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:14:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Don't fall for the usual bullshit maneuver that says says you can only be pissed off about the bailout or the bonuses but not both.



Why would you be pissed off about someone else's salary? They signed the contract they were offered or negotiated for.

The real anger should be directed at the government for bailing anyone out with your money. How many AIG executives voted for the bailout bill? Zero.


Did AIG ask for the money, or did the government come knocking on AIG's doors and force the money down AIG's throat?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:17:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 9:19:03 PM EDT by 1Andy2]
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Except that AIG didn't take the people's money. The government did. You're blaming the wrong people. The subject of this discussion should be the government. Not the "wealthy executives."


That is a lie.

AIG BEGGED the government to give them my money! Begged them on hands and knees, and when the government gave it to them they paid themselves nice fat bonuses with it. The government didn't just up and say, "Hey, you boys look like you could use a few hundred billion dollars! Here y'all are!"

No, AIG went to Uncle Sam like Oliver Twist and begged for this money! They asked for it, they took it and they spent it! They are just as much to blame as the government that agreed to hand the money over!


O rly?

Since when did you send taxes to AIG? And which AIG execs voted for the bailout?

Feds: "Hey, don't blame me! They ASKED me for your money! Blame those evil rich execs!"

eta: It doesn't MATTER whether they asked for the money or not. The Feds are the ones who acted. And now the populists are all pissed off because AIG honored salary commitments that they made LONG before the Feds gave them anything.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 9:23:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 9:25:14 PM EDT by motown_steve]
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I have no issue with someone who has more education than me, is more creative than I am, comes up with an idea that I never thought of or works harder than I do making more money than me.

I have a HUGE problem with people who work for a company that is run so poorly it needs billions of dollars from the Federal government to stay afloat taking hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses from tax payer dollars. These people wouldn't have gotten jack squat if nature had been allowed to take it's course, but since the taxpayer came to the rescue all of the sudden these people think it's back to business as usual. I have a problem with that.

Jake DeSantis complains about being wrongly subjected to unfair criticisms because he had nothing to do with the purchase of these toxic securities. What about the people whose jobs are on the line because of the sale of this business unit to UBS that he orchestrated? How many of them will lose their jobs thanks to Jake's hard work? Why isn't anyone taking up their cause? They had nothing to do with AIG's collapse either and they got nothing in the way of bonuses.


Why is it you have a problem with the people of that company but not with the government who bailed them out?


I do have a problem with the government who bailed them out, but the government isn't the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about the imaginary boogie man of class warfare in regards to these bonuses.


Except that AIG didn't take the people's money. The government did. You're blaming the wrong people. The subject of this discussion should be the government. Not the "wealthy executives."


That is a lie.

AIG BEGGED the government to give them my money! Begged them on hands and knees, and when the government gave it to them they paid themselves nice fat bonuses with it. The government didn't just up and say, "Hey, you boys look like you could use a few hundred billion dollars! Here y'all are!"

No, AIG went to Uncle Sam like Oliver Twist and begged for this money! They asked for it, they took it and they spent it! They are just as much to blame as the government that agreed to hand the money over!


O rly?

Since when did you send taxes to AIG? And which AIG execs voted for the bailout?

Feds: "Hey, don't blame me! They ASKED me for your money! Blame those evil rich execs!"

eta: It doesn't MATTER whether they asked for the money or not. The Feds are the ones who acted. And now the populists are all pissed off because AIG honored salary commitments that they made LONG before the Feds gave them anything.


It does matter! It matters a great deal! They knowingly asked for and took other people's money, then they knowingly used that money to pay themselves big bonuses. You are 100% correct, the government should have NEVER given them the money, and I am just as angry with them for it, more so actually.

That said, the execs who took this money that came from the taxpayers knowing that it came from the taxpayers are thieves. They take other people's money and use it to line their own pockets. Crooked to the core.

ETA - and I also changed the word "lie" to "false".

I did not intend to call you a liar.
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