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Posted: 6/15/2009 7:03:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 2:20:37 PM EST by RockHard13F]
Title says it. I was sitting around with a buddy of mine who is a former 18D, and we started talking about a survival course some prior service guys teach in the area. One thing led to another, and we came up with the following question/idea: What would civilian types pay for a former Green Beret and other Soldiers or Marines with special skillsets to teach them how to fight? Not talking your generic carbine/rifle course, nor a "survival" course, but a course essentially in guerilla warfare? Perhaps it would be a course consisting of several seperate classes, covering a wide range of topics. What is the going rate for civilian carbine courses? Survival courses? Thoughts?


Poll added. Attempted to make it detailed enough to have some idea of the demographics of the interested parties.

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:06:13 PM EST
I would pay 20-30 an hour depending on how good it was, and what was included.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:06:14 PM EST
Civilian right here. I'd love to take a class like this.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:07:18 PM EST
$400 for a weekend class .
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:09:08 PM EST
Blackwater carbine course run's $1,000.00 for a 5 day rifle / pistol course.

Depending on what they class covers I'll be interested
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:10:19 PM EST
They gonna tell me how to come across 155mm howitzer shells?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:10:38 PM EST
That would be a kick ass class..
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:14:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:15:37 PM EST by MadProfessor]
I am .mil and I'd go to that.


If nothing else, it'd be fun as hell.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:17:32 PM EST
Aren't some of their skills classified? I was always under the impression Special Forces fought to kill, I.E. shit that many civillians would wind up getting in trouble with and consequently would fall back on the Instructors of said course.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:19:06 PM EST
You mean a domestic terrorist training facility?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:20:39 PM EST
sure, then again I could just go to my dad.. or my grandpa if he were alive.. or a number of retired Marines that I grew up around.. or I could always go back to Honduras for a couple of months
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:21:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By USGI_45:
You mean a domestic terrorist training facility?


I'm sure a lot of liberals would claim the same about numerous weapons courses available to civilians throughout the country, especially combat oriented rifle/carbine courses and three gun matchs. Thunder Ranch's helo gunnery course comes to mind, to say the least...

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:22:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By GI-45:
Civilian right here. I'd love to take a class like this.


+1 - just don't kick my ass too severely or make me do any full-kit hikes. I'm and old fart.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:24:53 PM EST
No, I wouldn't
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:25:16 PM EST
I received a nice portion of their CQC training for free at my agency. A boat load of those guys worked for SAIC or my agency as training instructors in the beginning. It would definitely be worth attending.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:26:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:33:15 PM EST by sigxo45]
well first off, hats off for your "friend" for his SF tab, but just because he is former SF has nothing to do with me being welling to pay for a class that he would be teaching.. i know many spec-ops guys from the army and navy and they are great soldiers, but cant teach... i would think his best bet would be to start of with small class sizes at below average rates, get his name out and if he is a good instructor they will be beating down his door ...


and i think he would have better luck to work as in instructor(and get some great experience) at a good company like SAIC,USIS, or somthing of the like...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:27:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By lowlifebikerscum:
Originally Posted By GI-45:
Civilian right here. I'd love to take a class like this.


+1 - just don't kick my ass too severely or make me do any full-kit hikes. I'm and old fart.
Me, too. I'd definitely be up for it, but I'm old, out of shape, and half broken. But I'd definitely like to take a theory-based course on guerrilla warfare!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:27:36 PM EST
It would be a cool course to take.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:29:12 PM EST


fight these things?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:30:39 PM EST
Why pay? I can do that for free right now
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:38:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:40:09 PM EST by RockHard13F]
Originally Posted By sigxo45:
well first off, hats off for your "friend" for his SF tab, but just because he is former SF has nothing to do with me being welling to pay for a class that he would be teaching.. i know many spec-ops guys from the army and navy and they are great soldiers, but cant teach... i would think his best bet would be to start of with small class sizes at below average rates, get his name out and if he is a good instructor they will be beating down his door ...


and i think he would have better luck to work as in instructor(and get some great experience) at a good company like SAIC,USIS, or somthing of the like...


He was one of the guys that recommended me for OCS. I would say he is a pretty good friend.

I know what you mean on some people being great warfighters, yet less than steller teachers though. Some of us were even less than steller students in the classroom.

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:40:57 PM EST
So your buddy is going to teach bomb making, throat cutting, assassination, kidnapping and torture techniques to civilians?

Yeah, that'll last.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:41:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 8:00:37 PM EST by Buckeye67]
Well, depending on the duration of the class and cost, I think it'd be a hoot to attend.

As far as it's viability, these guys thing people will spend $10k to go to their school:

http://www.civilianrangerschool.com/

I'd not pay $10k for that.

ETA: InSights is also running a "Recondo" school:

http://www.insightstraining.com/us/view_course.asp?courseID=143&categoryID=4

And TFTT offers a "combat fieldcraft" course:

http://www.tftt.com/TFTT_CFC.htm

(Leaving the links cold intentionally)


Obviously, I have no idea what the instructors are like - but there are classes like this out there already. I'd say it is certainly feasible.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:41:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:42:34 PM EST by Thuban]
Personally, I would love to take such a course. Mostly because I have an academic interest in the subject but partly because I would like to meet some undercover FBI agents.

ETA: Or, you could write a book on the subject.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:42:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Thuban:
Personally, I would love to take such a course. Mostly because I have an academic interest in the subject but partly because I would like to meet some undercover FBI agents.


Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:44:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Thuban:
Personally, I would love to take such a course. Mostly because I have an academic interest in the subject but partly because I would like to meet some undercover FBI agents.

.
Go to a klan meeting. Their will be one guy wanting to blow shit up. There is your UC.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:44:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By USGI_45:
You mean a domestic terrorist training facility?


I'm sure a lot of liberals would claim the same about numerous weapons courses available to civilians throughout the country, especially combat oriented rifle/carbine courses and three gun matchs. Thunder Ranch's helo gunnery course comes to mind, to say the least...

-Ben


you would have to go with the "know your enemy" angle and market it that way
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:46:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By sigxo45:
well first off, hats off for your "friend" for his SF tab, but just because he is former SF has nothing to do with me being welling to pay for a class that he would be teaching.. i know many spec-ops guys from the army and navy and they are great soldiers, but cant teach... i would think his best bet would be to start of with small class sizes at below average rates, get his name out and if he is a good instructor they will be beating down his door ...


and i think he would have better luck to work as in instructor(and get some great experience) at a good company like SAIC,USIS, or somthing of the like...




I'd hope being a former SF soldier he would be a good teacher. That's kinda their thing.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:47:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:54:58 PM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]
Seriously, If it is The real deal and not some crap that would end up on youtube getting laughed at by real quiet professionals..People DO pay!.....TOP dollar,too!

You can set your own price if you have the reputation by word of mouth in small circles stating you are the real deal.....You will be booked for years and able to set your own schedule..

It don't even need to be advertised...People will come to you!

In today's world, as far as payment you have no limit depending on your skillset and qualifications offered...you would be better by offering some sort of pre-set price for a certain area of expertise..

You would be surprised at how many high level executive types,MDs,PhD's,fathers,mothers,even Bible preachers already pay HIGH dollar for this type training!

I would imagine the Hardest thing is making sure you don't get some guy who wants to become a half assed assassin or some crap and/or runs their mouth to every swinging Dick...because that is how you get a bad reputation...You have to make sure you check into your clientele as much as they check into you, I suppose!

I guess a program taking criteria from SERE A,B,C/Combat Medicine/Comm's/DEVGRU/SOI

At least with an 18D you will be able to patch everyone up who can't handle the Waterboarding

If you have the contacts in the community go for it...I am sure there is money to be made!



Originally Posted By ToyCop:
I received a nice portion of their CQC training for free at my agency. A boat load of those guys worked for SAIC or my agency as training instructors in the beginning. It would definitely be worth attending.


I worked with SAIC for a while out of Key West, Orlando, Melbourne, Patrick and McDill...They are a kick ass group to work for..I just wished it was in Virginia and not Damn Florida!

I wish I had never left but things changed once OIF was underway..I met some great people with them and I had not thought about them for a while until I read your post!..

I will have to give some of them a call
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:47:26 PM EST
hmmmmmm
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:49:35 PM EST
If I had the money, I'd sign up in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:49:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So your buddy is going to teach bomb making, throat cutting, assassination, kidnapping and torture techniques to civilians?

Yeah, that'll last.



Believe it or not, not all instances of guerilla warfare are terrorist campaigns, nor does every instance of fighting a guerilla war demand or condone the use of terrorism as a tactic.

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:52:34 PM EST
No.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:55:49 PM EST
If the shootings don't stop soon lots of folks would pay for professional insights.

It's one thing to be able to shoot well but it's not muggers most people are thinking about these days.

This could be a great service to the public.



BTW:guerilla warfare = kicking ass in the least expected way.
Should be called effective warfare IMHO
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:55:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:57:07 PM EST by stickfigure]
Nothing, I know a few former PJ's, Rangers and Combat Controllers who will do it for free.

In fact I have been getting tips from them for a few years now.

Now I have found a Combat Controller who is willing to teach me a few things on the weekends for fun.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:55:57 PM EST
Include tradecraft as well as fieldcraft.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:56:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So your buddy is going to teach bomb making, throat cutting, assassination, kidnapping and torture techniques to civilians?

Yeah, that'll last.



Believe it or not, not all instances of guerilla warfare are terrorist campaigns, nor does every instance of fighting a guerilla war demand or condone the use of terrorism as a tactic.

-Ben


Read my post and now you know what I mean....Don't ya?

There is reason the term is "quite" professional...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:58:29 PM EST
sure.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:00:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Include tradecraft as well as fieldcraft.

+1

counter intelligence in reality would be more useful

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:01:05 PM EST
I am in
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:01:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By ScoutOut:
Originally Posted By sigxo45:
well first off, hats off for your "friend" for his SF tab, but just because he is former SF has nothing to do with me being welling to pay for a class that he would be teaching.. i know many spec-ops guys from the army and navy and they are great soldiers, but cant teach... i would think his best bet would be to start of with small class sizes at below average rates, get his name out and if he is a good instructor they will be beating down his door ...


and i think he would have better luck to work as in instructor(and get some great experience) at a good company like SAIC,USIS, or somthing of the like...




I'd hope being a former SF soldier he would be a good teacher. That's kinda their thing.


really that thought never crossed my mind.....
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:02:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So your buddy is going to teach bomb making, throat cutting, assassination, kidnapping and torture techniques to civilians?

Yeah, that'll last.



I'm in

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:03:10 PM EST
I would, but only if you didnt know or want to know anything about me.

You should charge cash only and dont ask questions. Falls under opsec I guess.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:04:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 8:06:31 PM EST by Frost7]
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Title says it. I was sitting around with a buddy of mine who is a former 18D, and we started talking about a survival course some prior service guys teach in the area. One thing led to another, and we came up with the following question/idea: What would civilian types pay for a former Green Beret and other Soldiers or Marines with special skillsets to teach them how to fight? Not talking your generic carbine/rifle course, nor a "survival" course, but a course essentially in guerilla warfare? Perhaps it would be a course consisting of several seperate classes, covering a wide range of topics. What is the going rate for civilian carbine courses? Survival courses? Thoughts?

-Ben

I would definitely be interested in this.

In fact, if you gave me the Arfcom Discount in exchange for free word-of-mouth advertising to whoever I run across who might be interested, I might even take it twice.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:05:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By gaspain:
I would, but only if you didnt know or want to know anything about me.

You should charge cash only and dont ask questions. Falls under opsec I guess.


I'll let him know that his first 100 classes are full already at 1k dollars a class if he agrees to the above and adds discounts for Arabs.

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:07:45 PM EST
Interesting idea.

Though it would depend on what was taught. I'd likely pass since my back is screwed up; both knees creak a bit, and my right shoulder insists on arguing about shooting my hunting rifles.

My advice, for the crap pellet it is worth....basics only.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:09:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 8:11:19 PM EST by gaspain]
you could also make a video series, like Magpul Dynamics does...make more money and spread the word to more "discerning customers"
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:11:09 PM EST
Sounds like it would be a blast, no pun intended.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:12:20 PM EST
would take a class like this.

also interested in counter guerrilla.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:15:41 PM EST




Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:20:10 PM EST
Just become buddies with them,

You will glean everything you ever wanted to know, and more. Wont cost you one penny, and you will lhave some awesome folks you will be hooking up with once the ballon goes up
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