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Posted: 12/26/2008 5:19:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2008 5:19:38 AM EST by Lancelot]
First I have heard of this - I have been looking for a 22cal conversion kits and came across this --. I originally considered a Ciener kit.. but prob won't be going that way after reading this.
I like good customer service in the products I buy

At first I thought it was written by just an angry customer but began reading about other less than stellar experience but you can decide for yourself.

I have been to the BBB (Better Business Bureau in Cape Canaveral Florida and the crappy stats are true.


LINK

Link Posted: 12/22/2008 7:01:42 PM EST
wish someone else would start making mini-14/AC556 kits.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 4:06:37 PM EST
DOES ANYBODY KNWO IF THE CMMG KITS WILL TAKE THE BLACK DOG MAGS?
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 4:13:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 4:16:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By va_gunz:
DOES ANYBODY KNWO IF THE CMMG KITS WILL TAKE THE BLACK DOG MAGS?


Their sight says YES
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 4:26:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By MRW:
spare parts?


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Me: Hello, I'd like to buy a few spare parts for my kit Please

JAC: buy another kit and disassemble it

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Customer: The brass ejects and hits me in the head, is there a fix for this?

JAC: Buy a hat

<click>
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 4:53:58 PM EST
I purchased a ciener kit years ago for my m4. I was shocked at the customer service, never seen anything like it. put tens of thousands of rounds thru the kit. shoot it weekly using every kind of ammo i can find, mostly the $12 box of 550 remington from wally world. if i could do it again i would just take my knots and move on. in fact, after reading this thread i'm considering buying one now for the eventual day it does break. buy it now while mine is still working so i won't be antsy and let him take his sweet time.
i live right down the street form CTD. their website has the kit w/10 rd mag for $279.
you can buy it direct from the JAC website for $149.

i suppose i got more time than money....YMMV
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 5:08:00 PM EST
Spikes will be coming out with a drop in kit. I believe it will be plated like their dedicated upp bolts/carriers. I run mine with 2 drops of oil. Not sure when they will be releasing it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 3:22:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 4:12:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:
JAC laughs at your feeble attempts to dissuade people.

Are you personel friends of JAC?

He could care less if he never sells another kit.

Really, I believe that may be his sole income!

Not much you can do when he doesn't care if the buyers go elsewhere.


No, just we can enjoy the fact in knowing that out $$$ isn't going to his account & warning those uninformed of what to expect.


Link Posted: 8/26/2008 4:39:37 AM EST
I bought a Ciener kit for my ar that is now past 10,000 round count that runs flawlessly. I bought a ciener conversion for my glock 17 that in 500 or so rounds has ran very well with only a few hiccups. I think he does so much business through wholesaling he doesn't want any more direct business and that's why he has such a nasty attitude.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 4:51:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:
JAC laughs at your feeble attempts to dissuade people.

Are you personel friends of JAC?

I am, and turdyDingo is basically correct.

He could care less if he never sells another kit.

Really, I believe that may be his sole income!

If that's your belief, that's fine, but you're sorely mistaken.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 5:07:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 5:29:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2008 5:45:28 AM EST by CopM4]
Sounds like this guy is a total tool ...
I mean after reading some of the conversations people have had with him .....
He doesn't obviously need my money

Well as of this post the thread count is almost 800 . Maybe that will cost him some business.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 5:57:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bubbaguns:
I don't know about a conversion kit, but Model 1 sells a dedicated upper.



which is a chopped Ceiner kit.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 5:59:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By kaizer27:
There is also the spikes kit


And unless they have come up with their own proprietary kit in the last few month, it is nothing more than a hacked up Ceiner kit.

Read: still a ceiner kit, just had a middle man work on it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:01:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:05:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By NVBGear:

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:

Originally Posted By Bubbaguns:
I don't know about a conversion kit, but Model 1 sells a dedicated upper.



which is a chopped Ceiner kit.



Tactical Solutions and Spikes have both recently released complete upper kits that are re-engineered and improved over the JAC units.


Excellent!!

Cause when they first rolled out the Spikes dedicated uppers, they were nothing more than a chopped ceiner.

I'm glad that we will now have more options for .22lr conversions: CMMG, Tac Solutions and Spikes!
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:07:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By NVBGear:

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:

Originally Posted By Bubbaguns:
I don't know about a conversion kit, but Model 1 sells a dedicated upper.



which is a chopped Ceiner kit.



Tactical Solutions and Spikes have both recently released complete upper kits that are re-engineered and improved over the JAC units.
But no inserts

At least the CMMG will be a drop in and not require you to buy a complete upper.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:11:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By NVBGear:

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:

Originally Posted By Bubbaguns:
I don't know about a conversion kit, but Model 1 sells a dedicated upper.



which is a chopped Ceiner kit.



Tactical Solutions and Spikes have both recently released complete upper kits that are re-engineered and improved over the JAC units.


My JAC Kit stait up rocks, someone just needs to copy it. Well over 7000 rounds trouble free. Thats 50 rounds at 50 yards with A1 sights.


Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:14:16 AM EST
I own two of JACs conversions. They both work fine. My 1911 conversion has several thousand rounds through it and my AR15 kit is approaching it fast, if its not already got more. Its rimfire, so I dont bother to count rounds.

I got the AR15 kit because everyone else who was coming out with something to compete with it was taking too long, oly had their M261 and JAC delivered to midway before they did. I got the 1911 kit because it was the only one I could find in stock. I wanted the AA kit, but it was always on backorder.

Its my opinion that JAC makes a good product for the money. However, JAC is a well-documented asshole. I knew that before I ever got anything he made. I was aware that if one breaks, that I'm on my own. No different than buying a used car IMO.

I still hate the fact that I got two of his conversions. I'll hate it more if one breaks...

Oh, a little tip, if you're going to dedicate a website to boycotting something, make sure the links work. I gave up after clicking three of them.


Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:

Originally Posted By kaizer27:
There is also the spikes kit


And unless they have come up with their own proprietary kit in the last few month, it is nothing more than a hacked up Ceiner kit.

Read: still a ceiner kit, just had a middle man work on it.

IIRC, they're making their own rimfire bolts now. That's why they can ship uppers now, instead of waiting on JACkass.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:16:05 AM EST
Buy the Spikes Tactical 22lr upper! If I were to get a 22lr that would be the one it has the correct twist barrel, and is made for 22lr not 5.56/.223.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:30:38 AM EST
It also goes to show in this day of high speed communication...

In the past an unhappy customer told 10 people about shoddy products or customer service..

Now one person can tell 1000 in a matter of hours


Personally I do not see why if he is "rich' or could care less if he ever sells another kit - that he still produces them. I mean if the job is that horrible then you have to believe there is someone else who wants to do it... especially in this market
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:32:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1LSWON:
Buy the Spikes Tactical 22lr upper! If I were to get a 22lr that would be the one it has the correct twist barrel, and is made for 22lr not 5.56/.223.



... this is true...
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 6:52:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2008 6:59:39 AM EST by RABIDFOX50]

Is there a .22LR alternative to Ciener?




Spike's Tactical makes modified kits and dedicated .22LR uppers any way you want them. They use Black Dig Mags too. I've had mine for a month now and have run about 3K through it with ZERO issues. Spike's took the original design and made it their own with a fantastic nickle finish that is a breeze to clean. Don't bother with anything else. Spike's is the way to go. Best customer service and great products.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 7:03:09 AM EST
Complete and total dick of a man. I'm surprised this didn't come sooner.

I'm going to wait to grab the CMMG kit. I don't care if it costs more - it'll probably be made better, and I know if I have any problems, I won't have to deal with the world's biggest penis.

Fuck JAC.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 8:17:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:
JAC laughs at your feeble attempts to dissuade people.

Are you personel friends of JAC?

I am, and turdyDingo is basically correct.

He could care less if he never sells another kit.

Really, I believe that may be his sole income!

If that's your belief, that's fine, but you're sorely mistaken.



He can be rich & I really don't care. If he wants to go about his life being an asshole, so be it. I tend to not want to associate or do business with that type. They tend to flock together!
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 9:03:43 AM EST
Boycott????? Aw Man..C'mon... I just finally got my kit to work flawlessly....

I hear ya, If I could not have gotten my adapter to work, I would have sold it and moved on to a dedicated upper. But since it now works great, it's hard to give it up. but if it ever goes TU on me.... it's a dedicated upper as the next step.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 9:09:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By VLODPG:

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:
JAC laughs at your feeble attempts to dissuade people.

Are you personel friends of JAC?

I am, and turdyDingo is basically correct.

He could care less if he never sells another kit.

Really, I believe that may be his sole income!

If that's your belief, that's fine, but you're sorely mistaken.



He can be rich & I really don't care. If he wants to go about his life being an asshole, so be it. I tend to not want to associate or do business with that type. They tend to flock together!


I don't know him personally. I just know that nothing you can do or say will bother him. He drives around in his Ferrari, is basically immune to lawsuits and doesn't care what you think.

He probably just gets tickled at the boycott attempts and I'd rather not give him the satisfaction.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 9:11:18 AM EST
i got a m261 from oly
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 9:40:18 AM EST
JAC's blowups at Knob Creek are WELL KNOWN! Why Kenny hasn't kicked him out I'll never figure out.

PursuitSS
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 9:45:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:

Originally Posted By MRW:
spare parts?


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Me: Hello, I'd like to buy a few spare parts for my kit Please

JAC: buy another kit and disassemble it

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Customer: The brass ejects and hits me in the head, is there a fix for this?

JAC: Buy a hat

<click>



nice
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 10:12:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2008 10:16:23 AM EST by Forest]
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 10:15:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By va_gunz:
DOES ANYBODY KNWO IF THE CMMG KITS WILL TAKE THE BLACK DOG MAGS?


YES, CAPSLOCK MAN!
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 10:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:

Originally Posted By MRW:
spare parts?


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Me: Hello, I'd like to buy a few spare parts for my kit Please

JAC: buy another kit and disassemble it

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Customer: The brass ejects and hits me in the head, is there a fix for this?

JAC: Buy a hat

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: Wat?

Me: I had some questions about potentially buying one of your kits.

JAC: I don't have time for that shit, just fucking buy one.

Me: What?

<click>

True story.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 11:21:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:

Originally Posted By TurdyDingo:

Originally Posted By MRW:
spare parts?


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Me: Hello, I'd like to buy a few spare parts for my kit Please

JAC: buy another kit and disassemble it

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: WAt?

Customer: The brass ejects and hits me in the head, is there a fix for this?

JAC: Buy a hat

<click>


ring

ring

JAC: Wat?

Me: I had some questions about potentially buying one of your kits.

JAC: I don't have time for that shit, just fucking buy one.

Me: What?

<click>

True story.




I like these stories!



Link Posted: 8/26/2008 11:25:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 11:31:27 AM EST
He requires dealers to prepay for their orders and then wait for whenever he feels like delivering the goods. My dealer had a bunch of cash laid out for months and months with no answer to his calls. He then saw JAC at an event with a table full of kits selling them at a +20% premium without filling his dealer orders. I ended up having to get one for 20% more because I was sick of waiting (and because it paid for itself the first day at the range). All and all he is a dick head that exhibits piss poor business practices. He also owns the atchitson (sp?) patent so we are at his mercy.
Link Posted: 8/26/2008 11:36:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 10:08:01 AM EST
I met him at Knob Creek years ago and he was charging everybody 2 bits for his business cards.

I have an AR and a 1911 kit, both have functioned great for thousands of rounds. And they were shipped to me in a very timely manner.

However.... I've been waiting 18 months now for my AK conversion. Not too pleased about that. Still unsure what course of action I'm going to take.
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 6:19:18 PM EST
Man after reading this I just had to go in my garage and pull out my ciener kit I have had for years but never really used. But at todays 223 prices I'm going to start using my kit a lot.
Also I wanted to know who is using a dedicated upper and how well does it work, who to buy from and what's the cost?
Also who has the best mags out there to use with the ciener kits?
Since I have several lowers right now I want to set one up just dedicated for 22lr only.
Anyone have JAC's number? I want to call him and see for myself how he is on the phone......... LOL
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 6:27:11 PM EST
Why fool with it, there are other options now, better ones in fact.

The Spikes Tactical kits work great, and they stand behind there products, Ciener can stick it where the sun don't shine.
Link Posted: 12/26/2008 3:05:19 AM EST
Buy the Spikes Tactical 22lr upper! If I were to get a 22lr that would be the one it has the correct twist barrel, and is made for 22lr not 5.56/.223.


Mine shoots fantastic! That whole "improper twist" thing is bunk!

Luckily I've never had a problem with my kit. Had a .45 kit too. Both were flawless. If I had to buy another, I'd probably look elsewhere...
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 11:55:46 AM EST
Is there a .22LR alternative to Ciener?
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:09:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2008 12:09:47 PM EST by M4-TUNA]
Brownells I think is dropping them. They are getting tired of no supply.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:18:46 PM EST
CMMG is coming out with one and Brownells will have them in a couple of weeks. They'll be subsittuting the CMMG kit for the Ciener kits that are currently on backorder for orders already in their system, I'll have about 20 of them shortly. I don't really expect them to run much better than the Ciener kits but I've been wrong before.

As to JAC, that's all old news. I know him personally and he couldn't care less what anyone thinks of him or his business (or lack of) practices.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:28:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By sonrider657:
Is there a .22LR alternative to Ciener?


Yes, CMMG will have an offering which should be avilable soon per Brownells.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:46:36 PM EST
Fine for AR15.

I've got an AC-556. Where else am i to turn?

I agree...F-ciener. But in this case, i have no option.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:56:32 PM EST
JAC laughs at your feeble attempts to dissuade people.

He could care less if he never sells another kit.

Not much you can do when he doesn't care if the buyers go elsewhere.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:57:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2008 12:58:09 PM EST by Bubbaguns]
I don't know about a conversion kit, but Model 1 sells a dedicated upper.

Link Posted: 8/25/2008 12:57:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2008 12:59:38 PM EST by jbalazs]
I just got a Ciener AR15 conversion from Cheaperthandirt put 300 rounds through it no problem.
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