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Posted: 3/4/2006 3:47:59 PM EDT
www.azcentral.com
Church denies Communion to autistic boy

Michael Clancy
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 4, 2006 12:00 AM


The Catholic Church has told the parents of a 10-year-old autistic boy that, because the child cannot consume the host, he is not receiving Communion properly. Until he does, church officials say, he cannot partake of the church's most meaningful sacrament.

According to a letter from Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted, delivered to the Lake Havasu City family on Feb. 12, the boy cannot accept Communion in the Catholic Church until he can "actually receive the Eucharist, actually take and eat."

Because of his condition, Matthew Moran cannot swallow foods with certain textures. advertisement




So Matthew, who received his First Communion nearly three years ago in Pennsylvania, participates in Communion in an unusual way. As his father watches, the boy takes the Communion wafer and places it in his mouth. His father, Nick Moran, then removes it and consumes the host himself.

Otherwise, Matthew would spit it out, his father says.

Moran, who takes only the one host for himself, says it remains in the boy's mouth for several seconds.

He says the bishop's letter has caused anger, anxiety and frustration in his home.

"We are out of our minds over this," said the father, who with his wife, Dr. Jean Weaver, has two other children, one of them also disabled.

Phoenix Diocese officials contend that Matthew has not been prohibited from Communion, only that the bishop is "not able to approve the present practice," according to his letter. He offered assistance, which has come in the form of various hosts for Matthew to try, educational material and other recommendations for the parents, including respite care, in which trained personnel would look after the children while the parents took time for themselves.

"Matthew deserves to be able to take the Eucharist fully and completely," said Isabella Rice of the diocese Office on Disabilities and Pastoral Care. "As long as he is unable to do so, we will keep working with him."

The issue carries extreme importance for Catholics. Communion, a sacrament also known as the Eucharist, is the center of the church's worship life. In his letter to the family, Olmsted says, "The Eucharist is the great treasure of our Catholic faith."

Unlike other denominations with Communion, Catholics believe the hard wafer of unleavened bread, called a host, becomes the actual body of Christ when the priest consecrates a much larger host by holding it up and repeating the words of the Last Supper. The belief in the true presence of Christ results in prohibitions against consumption by those who are not Catholic, those who have not confessed serious sins and those who have not properly prepared.

The church's concern is that the host or wine not be desecrated in any matter. The key rule is that the recipient must "consume" the host before leaving the area of reception. The consumption rule is written in both the directions for the Mass, called the "General Instruction of the Roman Missal," and in a Vatican document called "Redemptionis Sacramentum," the "Redeeming Sacrament."

The bishop is the final authority for matters in his diocese, according to theologian William Cavanaugh of the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn.

The diocese is not questioning Matthew's preparation or understanding of Communion.

"I took my son to CCD (religious education) classes for two years to prepare him," said Moran, a stay-at-home father. "He deserves it."

Moran also said his son realizes that he is doing something special. When he was not allowed to go to Communion on Feb. 26, "it was terrible," said Matthew's mother. "Matt screamed and cried because he did not get his Communion."

Matthew received his First Communion in May 2004 in Pittsburgh. His father says the Pittsburgh parish his family attended both recommended and approved the boy's method of receiving Communion. Phoenix officials say that is not true, based on their talks with Pittsburgh Diocese officials.

Pittsburgh officials declined to return phone calls. The Rev. Patrick Barkey, an assistant pastor at St. Bernard Church in Pittsburgh, where Matthew received First Communion, signed the boy's certificate but says he does not remember the family.

"This is a large parish, with 4,500 families," he said. "We have a large ministry to the disabled."

Moran said the Rev. Michael Deptula at Our Lady of the Lake Parish in Lake Havasu City, religious home to 2,500 families, was fine with the matter until recently.

It is another point of dispute. Moran says that his wife met with a church deacon and the pastor to discuss the question shortly after they arrived in town in June 2005 and that his son received Communion from Deptula many times before.

But diocese officials say the family never met with the pastor and had never approached him for Communion before Jan. 1, when Deptula told the parents that Matthew was not showing proper respect.

On that day, according to Moran, Matthew was not acting unusually. The family says it does not understand why the matter came to the bishop's attention. But Deptula contacted the diocese.

Deptula declined to return calls. Elaine Guitar, parish manager, said parish officials had no comment and referred calls to the diocese. Olmsted also declined to answer questions, assigning Rice from the disabilities office and Roz Gutierrez from the Office of Worship to work with Matthew and answer questions.

Rice said she never has seen a similar case. The closest would be people who are in vegetative states, in comas or near death. In those cases, a tiny flake of the host or a drop of wine often is given.

Matthew will not swallow even tiny amounts of the bread or wine, his father says.

Autism, a neurological disorder, manifests its symptoms in a variety of ways. Verbal skills and social interactions often are affected. Because autism is a spectrum disorder, the symptoms can range in severity, and each individual can be affected in different ways.

Autistic children frequently have difficulty eating certain kinds of food, among other disabilities. Moran says Matthew is extremely sensitive to certain colors and textures, and the boy eats and drinks only specific things.

Matthew has "moderately severe autism," his father said. "In spite of his disability, he is reading, doing math and making friends."

"How terrible, how difficult for the family," said Denise Resnik, board chairwoman for the Southwest Autism Research Center and the mother of a boy who is dealing with autism. "We often seek comfort in our religion, and it would be nice to think the church would support them to the best degree possible." Diocese officials said they are doing their best to accommodate Matthew's needs, including hosts that are thinner than the norm, thicker, even smaller. Moran says none of the hosts has worked. Matthew will not swallow even a tiny crumb of the host or a drop of wine with any regularity, frequently spitting them out, he said.

Rice and Gutierrez say they have had extensive talks and e-mail exchanges with the family. They admit their service to the family is hampered by distance. Lake Havasu City is about 200 miles from Phoenix.

The Morans responded that Deptula has barred employees of the parish, the only one in town, from speaking to them.

"How does the diocese intend to help us when (parish) employees are threatened with the loss of their jobs for speaking with us?" the parents asked. "Where is the effort and support from this church?"

Rice says the diocese is trying to remain true to church teaching on people who are disabled.

A document of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, "Guidelines for the Celebration of the Sacraments with Persons with Disabilities," says, "Cases of doubt should be resolved in favor of the right of the baptized person to receive the sacrament. The existence of a disability is not considered in and of itself as disqualifying a person from receiving the Eucharist."

Nick Moran said he believes Olmsted is not following those guidelines in the case of his son.

In his letter, Olmsted says, "Just to touch it to one's tongue is not to 'take and eat.' In other words, it is not the reception of Christ in the Eucharist.

"So while your desire is for your son to receive Holy Communion, he is, in fact, only simulating doing so."

Roberto Dell'Oro, a theologian at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, says concerns about whether Matthew is consuming the host miss the bigger point.

"I'm sure God knows that (Matthew) is receiving Communion," said Dell'Oro, whose son has autism.

"The Eucharist is a symbol of deep sharing in love. It seems hypocritical to point fingers at these kinds of nuances. If the father is taking care of the host (so it is not thrown away or destroyed), then what is the big deal?"

That is the question Moran is asking.

"We didn't make this a major issue," he said. "They did."
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:49:48 PM EDT
and the problem with that is?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:53:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 3:54:33 PM EDT by WildBoar]
IBTL,

I can hear the Catholic haters stampeding to toward this thread.



ETA I thought we had a forum for this type of stuff?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:56:58 PM EDT
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:57:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 3:58:41 PM EDT by Digitalpunk]
Who needs a fucking wafer to worship God? It's not like God's going to be pissed at the poor kid.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:58:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
IBTL,

I can hear the Catholic haters stampeding to toward this thread.







WWJD
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:59:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:01:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
IBTL,

I can hear the Catholic haters stampeding to toward this thread.






+1.

Incoming.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:02:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 4:02:26 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i really don't see a problem.

if catholic doctrine states it must be done a certain way and only that way, then so be it.

IMHO if the lord was inclined to deny someone entrance to heaven because of a physical inability to participate in a man made ceremony, i am inclined to think that's not a heaven i'd want to be in.



So go to hell.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:02:55 PM EDT
I'm with The_Beer_Slayer on this one.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:03:03 PM EDT
You can't eat it you can't have it. Would you feed mecuray to someone. Well maybe thats why this kid is like this but thats off the point. Why don't they bring a blender to church and add some water and make him a shake?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:03:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i really don't see a problem.

if catholic doctrine states it must be done a certain way and only that way, then so be it.

IMHO if the lord was inclined to deny someone entrance to heaven because of a physical inability to participate in a man made ceremony, i am inclined to think that's not a heaven i'd want to be in.



Very well said.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:04:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i really don't see a problem.

if catholic doctrine states it must be done a certain way and only that way, then so be it.

IMHO if the lord was inclined to deny someone entrance to heaven because of a physical inability to participate in a man made ceremony, i am inclined to think that's not a heaven i'd want to be in.




The funny things people do..... it's really sad actually

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:04:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gardenWeasel:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
i really don't see a problem.

if catholic doctrine states it must be done a certain way and only that way, then so be it.

IMHO if the lord was inclined to deny someone entrance to heaven because of a physical inability to participate in a man made ceremony, i am inclined to think that's not a heaven i'd want to be in.



So go to hell.



BS this is better said.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:04:51 PM EDT
I kinda' think the bishop is being a dick.

He has a boss. Take it to him.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:06:04 PM EDT
I have a feeling God is laughing at our rituals and feeble attempts to determine what he wants.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:06:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
I kinda' think the bishop is being a dick.

He has a boss. Take it to him.



I could see it now ( Blur blur blur blur)
Back in Italy
Pope: was up
Childs father: Well my son can't eat it
Pope: Did you bring a blender to church?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:07:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:
I have a feeling God is laughing at our rituals and feeble attempts to determine what he wants.



That or he's got a tear in his eye.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:09:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By joker581:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.


Incorrect. One should confess and be forgiven before partaking in Communion.

Many elderly people cannot take Communion either.

There's often a difference between (any) religionous rules and what God has said. No one's going to Hell over this.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:09:55 PM EDT
Sounds like the boy had communion.

Is ingestion mandatory?

Not being Catholic, I don't know.

Like others said, I think God understands his limitations.

GM

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:12:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
and the problem with that is?



Jeebuz H man, the boy is being denied the ability and his right to consumate his religious belief by his own church!

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:16:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:
I have a feeling God is laughing at our rituals and feeble attempts to determine what he wants.



+1

Sounds like typical organized religion exclusion from the common clique to me. Any of them.

But, as BS has correctly stated, that's the rules of the clubhouse, and that's their right. I do so enjoy the constant reminders I get of why I don't go to their club meetings anymore. Me and God are cool. Don't need to prove it to anyone.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:20:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By goodmedicine:
Sounds like the boy had communion.

Is ingestion mandatory?

Not being Catholic, I don't know.

Like others said, I think God understands his limitations.

GM






As a Mackeral Snapper that turned in his knee pads, I'm gonna put 'em back on for a moment or two.

Someone ought to give the Bishop a good, swift, boot in the ass.


What a crock!

knee pads turned back in.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
and the problem with that is?



Jeebuz H man, the boy is being denied the ability and his right to consumate his religious belief by his own church!




Jeebuz H man the boy is autistic and most likey does not have a clue what is going on... the church has its traditions if you don't like them don't go.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:24:04 PM EDT

Jeebuz H man the boy is autistic and most likey does not have a clue what is going on... the church has its traditions if you don't like them don't go.


Oh boy, here we go.

Oh, BTW, you're wrong. Autism typically is manifested in hypersensitivity, rather than lack of comprehension, of "what is going on".



Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:37:02 PM EDT
Dear Lord, save me because You promised to, rather than because of anything I do.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:44:12 PM EDT
Needs to go Episcopalian. Those folks are much easier to get along with.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:51:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
IBTL,

I can hear the Catholic haters stampeding to toward this thread.




+1.

Incoming.



I'm sure that Sgtar15 is just twitching to be able to post in this thread.

wganz

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 4:57:59 PM EDT
Hey, god never said everyone gets to be "saved" did he?


Maybe the kid is just one of us who god planned in advance to send to hell.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:02:09 PM EDT
Silly catholics with their silly gimmicks. I'd like to see Martin Luther punch that bishop out.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:06:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 13thWarrior:
You can't eat it you can't have it. Would you feed mecuray to someone. Well maybe thats why this kid is like this but thats off the point. Why don't they bring a blender to church and add some water and make him a shake?



Because Jesus did things a specific way, and that is the way the Catholic church is trying to preserve.

Personally I think their stance is a bit looney.

Ultimately God isn't going to hold this against the kid.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:07:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By row:
Silly catholics with their silly gimmicks. I'd like to see Martin Luther punch that bishop out.



Good thing you did say that about Muslims... but hey ignorant dumb bigoted Catholic bashing is OK so you are fine.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Hey, god never said everyone gets to be "saved" did he?


Maybe the kid is just one of us who god planned in advance to send to hell.




Ya.

That's probably it.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:08:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 5:10:36 PM EDT by deej86]
As an autistic myself, I find it terrible that they are denying him that.

FWIW a church that my parents went to back in the day refused to want to confirm me.
Edit-I was confirmed at my current church.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
and the problem with that is?



Jeebuz H man, the boy is being denied the ability and his right to consumate his religious belief by his own church!




Jeebuz H man the boy is autistic and most likey does not have a clue what is going on... the church has its traditions if you don't like them don't go.



Hey bud, news flash here. He's not retarded, he's autistic, look it up.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:16:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
and the problem with that is?



Jeebuz H man, the boy is being denied the ability and his right to consumate his religious belief by his own church!




Jeebuz H man the boy is autistic and most likey does not have a clue what is going on...
the church has its traditions if you don't like them don't go.



Hey bud, news flash here. He's not retarded, he's autistic, look it up.


If anyone wants more information, The_Camp_Ninja was kind of enough to providethis thread

I myself have a mild form of autism however I am aware of what goes on, there are many that have less awareness due to what form of the disorder they have.

I DO NOT see how freedom of religion does not apply to disabled individuals.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:16:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:
As an autistic myself, I find it terrible that they are denying him that.

FWIW a church that my parents went to back in the day refused to want to confirm me.
Edit-I was confirmed at my current church.



Thank God you came along deej. A voice of reason and knowledge here, an autistic Catholic.

I'm just a former Catholic (and mooslims think they are the fastest growing religion!) and this is the type of behavior that drove me from the church.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:17:50 PM EDT
Point 1.

The communion wafer is just a small disc of hard bread until concecration during the mass at which time it is transformed into the body of Christ.

Point 2.

The form of the unconcecrated bread is irrelevant. It could be a cracker, or a piece of Wonder bread. At the last supper it was common table bread.

Point 3.

Find some form of bread that the child can consume and have the priest concecrate it along with the other communion wafers during the mass, transformaing it into the body of Christ. It will look different than the other communion wafers but will in fact be the body of Christ just like the othe communion media that was consecrated at the same time.

Point 4.

Now the child can receive Holy Communion just like the other good Catholics in his congregation.

Point 5.

It does not take a Jesuet scholar to figure this one out.

Point 6.

The Reverend Bishop Olmstead needs a good kick in the nuts.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:18:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By deej86:
As an autistic myself, I find it terrible that they are denying him that.

FWIW a church that my parents went to back in the day refused to want to confirm me.
Edit-I was confirmed at my current church.



Thank God you came along deej. A voice of reason and knowledge here, an autistic Catholic.

I'm just a former Catholic (and mooslims think they are the fastest growing religion!) and this is the type of behavior that drove me from the church.


Pooby, I'm not Catholic. I belong to a Christian denomination called the United Church of Christ.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:23:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By row:
Silly catholics with their silly gimmicks. I'd like to see Martin Luther punch that bishop out.


You do realize that Luther was flat out nuts?

"Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong."

"it is more important to guard against doing good works than against sin."

"[Man] has no free-will."

"God is the author of what is evil."

"Like the mules who will not move unless you perpetually whip them with rods, so the civil powers must drive the common people, whip, choke, hang, burn, behead and torture them, that they may learn to fear the powers that be."

Jews are young devils damned to hell. Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand... If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused."

Martin Luther
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:23:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
Point 1.

The communion wafer is just a small disc of hard bread until concecration during the mass at which time it is transformed into the body of Christ.

Point 2.

The form of the unconcecrated bread is irrelevant. It could be a cracker, or a piece of Wonder bread. At the last supper it was common table bread.

Point 3.

Find some form of bread that the child can consume and have the priest concecrate it along with the other communion wafers during the mass, transformaing it into the body of Christ. It will look different than the other communion wafers but will in fact be the body of Christ just like the othe communion media that was consecrated at the same time.

Point 4.

Now the child can receive Holy Communion just like the other good Catholics in his congregation.

Point 5.

It does not take a Jesuet scholar to figure this one out.

Point 6.

The Reverend Bishop Olmstead needs a good kick in the nuts.


The church I attend is a United Church of Christ church that uses regular table bread. My girlfriend is a Lutheran and they use wafers. Personally I don't care for the taste but I can eat the wafer like anyone else.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:23:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:28:44 PM EDT
As I recall, jesus just loved those Pharisees and Sadducees, and all their legalizm and ritualism. Yep, he pretty much just came to save all the good people, all those "clean" and "holy" people.

off to the lake of fire for me....cause I'm chief among the sinners
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:35:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deej86:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By deej86:
As an autistic myself, I find it terrible that they are denying him that.

FWIW a church that my parents went to back in the day refused to want to confirm me.
Edit-I was confirmed at my current church.



Thank God you came along deej. A voice of reason and knowledge here, an autistic Catholic.

I'm just a former Catholic (and mooslims think they are the fastest growing religion!) and this is the type of behavior that drove me from the church.


Pooby, I'm not Catholic. I belong to a Christian denomination called the United Church of Christ.



I'm not familiar with that denomination, but you do partake of the sacrement so I'm part right. My knowledge of other religions customs and their sacrements is limited.


Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:37:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By deej86:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By deej86:
As an autistic myself, I find it terrible that they are denying him that.

FWIW a church that my parents went to back in the day refused to want to confirm me.
Edit-I was confirmed at my current church.



Thank God you came along deej. A voice of reason and knowledge here, an autistic Catholic.

I'm just a former Catholic (and mooslims think they are the fastest growing religion!) and this is the type of behavior that drove me from the church.


Pooby, I'm not Catholic. I belong to a Christian denomination called the United Church of Christ.



I'm not familiar with that denomination, but you do partake of the sacrement so I'm part right. My knowledge of other religions customs and their sacrements is limited.




Not a problem.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:40:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 6:04:00 PM EDT by RUSSIANCATKILLA]

Originally Posted By joker581:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.



BS
1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.
2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me" part not to get us to heaven.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:40:43 PM EDT
hey deej, m' man!

seems as though you're pretty articulate in the way you express yourself considering your autism.

I volunteer with autistic kids - my middle son is autistic - and they all have a difficult time writing, reading and doing simple tasks.

Good-luck!
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:47:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
hey deej, m' man!

seems as though you're pretty articulate in the way you express yourself considering your autism.

I volunteer with autistic kids - my middle son is autistic - and they all have a difficult time writing, reading and doing simple tasks.

Good-luck!


Yes I am. Thank you. Mine is a mild form and I've always been very proficient as far as writing and reading and simple tasks are concerned. Mathematics has always been a problem, but oddly enough I've been doing very well in my second year of college in a collegiate level algebra course.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:52:04 PM EDT
A few points in no particular order.

1. According to Roman Catholic doctrine, it does matter what form the bread had before consecration. It must be unleavened wheat bread, and IIRC may have no ingredients other than wheat and water.

2. I find it very hard to believe that the boy couldn't/wouldn't consume a fragment of the host the size of the head of a pin. I don't know a lot about autism, but I'd think there is some size which would be visually perceptible to the priest (so he could break it off and put it in the boy's mouth) but imperceptible to the boy, so he'd be unaffected by the texture.

3. I wonder why the priest couldn't dip his finger in the wine and rub it into the boy's gums. The boy would be consuming the wine, and under RC doctrine, receiving either species is complete receiupt of the Sacrament.

4. The bishop, legally and doctrinally, can do pretty much whatever he wants, which is how we know that giving Communion to pro-abortion and pro-death penalty politicians is proof of a bishop's cowardice.

5. AFAIK, the priest could go to the boy's house and "hide" the host in something the boy would eat, provided the priest stuck around to witness & ensure that it was consumed.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:52:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RUSSIANCATKILLA:

Originally Posted By joker581:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.



BS
1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.
2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me part" not to get us to heaven.



1st - that's an arrogant statement, based on a hunch.
2nd - you are correct this is not a condition of salvation, it's done in remembrance of the lord, what organization has the right to prevent someone from partaking in it?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 5:57:57 PM EDT by deej86]


1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.

In my non-Catholic denomination, I had to take a communion preparation class before I was allowed to recieve communion.
IIRC I think you have to learn about what Communion means before you can recieve your "first "one.


2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me part" not to get us to heaven.

True.
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