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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:39:58 AM EDT
[#1]
What do you mean by "believe in God"?
eta: Believe in His existence? Even Satan does that. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:40:51 AM EDT
[#2]
In before the mormon bashing
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:42:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Before Jesus died for our sins, everyone went to hell?...maybe?
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:44:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What do you mean by "believe in God"? eta: Believe in His existence? Even Satan does that. This. James 2:19 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You must be born again, accept the gift that Christ has given you, and repent. Become a Christian isn't joining a Group, all these denominations have really shrouded what Christianity is. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a life change. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:45:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T You're dead on correct. Every prison is full of Christians who are going to Heaven because God forgives....even child molestors/killers. 
But if you dont believe then you'll burn in Hell forever. Even if you've never harmed anyone. 
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:45:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T Paul covers this in Romans chapter 6 Remember that Jesus taught that at the end of time, people would come to him having done great miracles in his name but did not follow what he said. He then says "depart from me, I never knew you". The answer lies there. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:46:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:48:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T I'm Mormon - here's my take. In the Old Testament - the lamb was given to the priests to be sacrificed in order to cleanse your(as in the person making the sacrifice) sins. It was a symbol of the coming Atonement of Christ. Just as that person in ancient times had to make a new sacrifice each week(? maybe each month, idr) We must renew our commitment to Him, by forsaking our sins. This is no Free-pass - it's a tool that we choose to use in order to return to God. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:49:03 AM EDT
[#9]
The way I read John 3:16 is that you must believe in the idea that God is a loving God who was willing to sacrifice his own Son for the world, not simply believe in his existence.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:49:57 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. You know there's more than 1 verse in the Bible, right? |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:51:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T Some minor points: As long as you repent, and turn away from your sin, then yes you will be forgiven repeatedly. Hence the 70x7 comment of Christ in Matthew 18. However the example given next in that scripture point out how exactly you can lose your forgiveness. Repenting is a requirement, forgiving others is also a requriement. Believing in God is interesting, but that is not what is being sought and has very little to do with eternal life. The sacrificial lamb in the OT was pointing towards Jesus, not the reverse. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:51:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God That is no Justice - that is pure mercy. God the Father deals in Justice, Christ the son deals in Mercy. To understand that - you have to accept that Christ and God are two seperate distinct individuals with immortal bodies, and that the Holy Ghost is another seperate individual with a Spirit, but no body. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:52:48 AM EDT
[#13]
John 3:5
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:54:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. You know there's more than 1 verse in the Bible, right? 
That may be the most awesome reply in one of these threads ever. 
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:54:38 AM EDT
[#15]
if you did believe in god, then why would you disobey his commandments?
your also ignoring the rest of the bible, something about faith without works is dead, comes to mind. I'm surprised that's all it took to drive those missionaries away they're usually a bit more stubbron than that, you're sure you weren't naked at the time? |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:57:43 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T Holey Shit that is some funny stuff don't care who you are.........
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
if you did believe in god, then why would you disobey his commandments? your also ignoring the rest of the bible, something about faith without works is dead, comes to mind. I'm surprised that's all it took to drive those missionaries away they're usually a bit more stubbron than that, you're sure you weren't naked at the time? Very true. Read the book of James - You are saved by Grace because there is no way you can get yourself into heaven alone. You need the saving Grace of Christ. However you can only receive that Grace after All you can do. Think of the Kid who wants a bike, and works for months and months and makes $10, and comes to their Dad, asking if it's enough - Dad says no, but he can make up the difference. Your Works are that $10, Christ's Grace is the Rest, and more important part. Why did the Dad not just buy the bike - because the kid needed to learn something. We are here to learn, to help others learn, and to ultimately get back to God. But we have to put in all the work we can to do so. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:59:31 AM EDT
[#18]
You can't get that free gift of forgiveness without repentence. Repentence is a state of mind that says "sorry and I'll try not to do it again." Going through life saying, hey I can do anything beacuse of forgiveness doesn't cut it.
As long as you have that repentence, you can screw up as many times as you want to. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:00:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God awesome! figured I'd check with GD to make sure since if I was wrong I'd need to change my shit cause hell does NOT sound fun. T |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:00:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Some minor points: As long as you repent, and turn away from your sin, then yes you will be forgiven repeatedly. Hence the 70x7 comment of Christ in Matthew 18. However the example given next in that scripture point out how exactly you can lose your forgiveness. Repenting is a requirement, forgiving others is also a requriement. Believing in God is interesting, but that is not what is being sought and has very little to do with eternal life. The sacrificial lamb in the OT was pointing towards Jesus, not the reverse. The key is above there, you must repent and leave your sin behind. You must live a Christ like life to go along with believing in him as well. Also, as stated above, John 3:16 happens to be close to the end of a very big book. Check the rest out... |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:02:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Hey all, remember that whole..."Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. "
Sounds a lot like GD to me 
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:02:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Not all denominations agree on the specifics.
"Belief" is not the issue IMO, or in the opinion of the majority of the profs at Calvin. It's repentence, and grace, that is the issue. Simple belief isn't even a particularly impressive "work". Belief in specific doctrine as the only path to salvation doesn't make any sense, unless you're selling doctrine. It's just words, it's the concepts that matter. There's probably a lot of people who profess to believe who are not saved, and many skeptics who are. The whole concept of life being a pass/fail test is troublesome for me though, so make of my post what you will. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:03:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
You can't get that free gift of forgiveness without repentence. Repentence is a state of mind that says "sorry and I'll try not to do it again." Going through life saying, hey I can do anything beacuse of forgiveness doesn't cut it. As long as you have that repentence, you can screw up as many times as you want to. I would submit that repentance is doing your very best to never do that sin again. Comitting a sin over and over again and saying you're sorry is not repentance IMO. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:03:56 PM EDT
[#24]
"churchy people"?
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:05:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Not all denominations agree on the specifics. "Belief" is not the issue IMO, or in the opinion of the majority of the profs at Calvin. It's repentence, and grace, that is the issue. Simple belief isn't even a particularly impressive "work"... This is what I was trying to get to. If you really "believe in" Jesus/God, you will follow his commands. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:07:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: "churchy people"? He didn't say churchy penguins. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:07:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Not all denominations agree on the specifics. "Belief" is not the issue IMO, or in the opinion of the majority of the profs at Calvin. It's repentence, and grace, that is the issue. Simple belief isn't even a particularly impressive "work"... This is what I was trying to get to. If you really "believe in" Jesus/God, you will follow his commands. Correct. Also, when we die, we still have to give an account of our life. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:08:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
"churchy people"? did'nt want to discriminate by singling out any one denomination. T |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:18:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God awesome! figured I'd check with GD to make sure since if I was wrong I'd need to change my shit cause hell does NOT sound fun. T Let me ask you this If you used to sleep with any and evey woman you could then got married and now love your wife would you continue to sleep around knowing it hurt her? Same with God if you Love him you will not do those things anymore out of love for him. Sure he will forgive, but can you truly love someone and then willingly hurt and offend them? |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:19:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T You're dead on correct. Every prison is full of Christians who are going to Heaven because God forgives....even child molestors/killers.
But if you dont believe then you'll burn in Hell forever. Even if you've never harmed anyone.
The greatest sin is rebellion against God and not accepting his gift of salvation. Think of it from God's eyes and not man's. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:19:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God awesome! figured I'd check with GD to make sure since if I was wrong I'd need to change my shit cause hell does NOT sound fun. T Let me ask you this If you used to sleep with any and evey woman you could then got married and now love your wife would you continue to sleep around knowing it hurt her? Same with God if you Love him you will not do those things anymore out of love for him. Sure he will forgive, but can you truly love someone and then willingly hurt and offend them? EX-wife yes. Future wife, no. 1 point for gods team! |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:21:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Now the way I interpret this is that jesus took the place of the sacrificial lamb of the old testament so that anyone who believes in god will go to heaven. So even though I sin jesus was the perfect sacrafice and his sacrafice takes care of all of my sins no matter how big or small, or how few or how many. So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. Had the mormons show up at my door and explained my views to them and they just got a ZOMG look on their faces and said they felt sorry for me and left. T Even demons believe in God, and they're definitely not saved. I won't go too deep (not much time), but suffice it to say that if you accept the free gift of God and have faith in Him, you will be saved (although the Bible does say some will be saved only 'just escaping the flames of hell'). However, I find it difficult to fathom that one can understand the sacrifice that Jesus made and the nature of God and not have it affect his way of life. The fact that you are using your understanding of this to blatantly and defiantly disobey God leads me to wonder whether you have really accepted His gift or not. Also note that God will judge EVERYONE, Christians included. You will go to Heaven if you have accepted the gift in faith, but you may be the heavenly pooper-scooper when you get there depending on what you did with the investment God has made in you. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:21:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Religion in GD . . . this will go juuuussssttttt fiiiiinnnnnee.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:27:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So in summation, the way I interpret this is that as long as you believe in god then you can do whatever you want and your still getting into heaven. basically yes, but replace Jesus with God That is no Justice - that is pure mercy. God the Father deals in Justice, Christ the son deals in Mercy. To understand that - you have to accept that Christ and God are two seperate distinct individuals with immortal bodies, and that the Holy Ghost is another seperate individual with a Spirit, but no body. but one most not confuse that God, while dealing in Justice, is love as well, 'For GOD so LOVED the World" |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:28:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Knowing Kolat, I'm surprised he didn't invite the Mormons in for a beer and offer to trade them for whatever guns they have back in Utah.
Now that would have been entertaining. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:33:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Knowing Kolat, I'm surprised he didn't invite the Mormons in for a beer and offer to trade them for whatever guns they have back in Utah. Now that would have been entertaining. They looked too young for me to jew them out of any good guns. Now If I was catholic not Jewish then it would have been a much different story. T |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:33:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Close. No cigar. Or eternal life.
The relevant scripture says If you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth that God, (not god), raised Jesus from the dead; you will be saved. There is a lot that goes with that, such as, Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, was accused, scourged, hung on a cross, died, and was resurrected on the third day, and sits on the right hand of the Father in Heaven. AND. NOONE comes to the father except through,(by), me; meaning Jesus |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:41:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Correct me if I'm wrong but GOD must approve of guns(aka Weapons) because so much of YOU CHURCHY PEOPLE own guns.
Sorry to the OP for getting off track 
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:42:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can't get that free gift of forgiveness without repentence. Repentence is a state of mind that says "sorry and I'll try not to do it again." Going through life saying, hey I can do anything beacuse of forgiveness doesn't cut it. As long as you have that repentence, you can screw up as many times as you want to. I would submit that repentance is doing your very best to never do that sin again. Comitting a sin over and over again and saying you're sorry is not repentance IMO. If your sorry is sincere then it is repentance. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:48:57 PM EDT
[#40]
I say believe in yourself!!! Watch the movie Zietgiest and study early european history and then you'll see christianity for what it is (a descendant of several other man made religions)
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:49:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you mean by "believe in God"? eta: Believe in His existence? Even Satan does that. This. James 2:19 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You must be born again, accept the gift that Christ has given you, and repent. Become a Christian isn't joining a Group, all these denominations have really shrouded what Christianity is. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a life change. ...Not a religion, its a life change. +1,000 |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:58:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong but GOD must approve of guns(aka Weapons) because so much of YOU CHURCHY PEOPLE own guns. Sorry to the OP for getting off track You are correct. There is no scriptural prohibition to owning weapons or defending one's family or home. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 12:59:31 PM EDT
[#43]
I've had a long discussion about this in the religion forum some time ago about the same thing (more or less). I think most everyone (Christian, that is) agreed on the fact that IF you are saved that it ought to be REFLECTED in the way you live your life. You wouldn't keep going around doing wrong, otherwise you're just lying to yourself. (I'm paraphrasing here)
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:01:01 PM EDT
[#44]
I agree with that. Its a lifestyle, a moral compass and core not just a belief.
Quoted:
I've had a long discussion about this in the religion forum some time ago about the same thing (more or less). I think most everyone (Christian, that is) agreed on the fact that IF you are saved that it ought to be REFLECTED in the way you live your life. You wouldn't keep going around doing wrong, otherwise you're just lying to yourself. (I'm paraphrasing here) |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:02:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
if you did believe in god, then why would you disobey his commandments? your also ignoring the rest of the bible, something about faith without works is dead, comes to mind. I'm surprised that's all it took to drive those missionaries away they're usually a bit more stubbron than that, you're sure you weren't naked at the time? He had "Grannies and Trannies XVI - The Ass-ass-in-Nation Files" balsting on the Hi-def at the time....... |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:05:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Correct me if I'm wrong but GOD must approve of guns(aka Weapons) because so much of YOU CHURCHY PEOPLE own guns. Sorry to the OP for getting off track There is no prohibition against posessing objects in the OT with the exception of idols. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:06:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you mean by "believe in God"? eta: Believe in His existence? Even Satan does that. This. James 2:19 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You must be born again, accept the gift that Christ has given you, and repent. Become a Christian isn't joining a Group, all these denominations have really shrouded what Christianity is. Christianity isn't a religion, it's a life change. True If you truly believe in Christ and accept his sacrifice your "want to" will change Doing the same old "me first" garbage begins to eat at you Read the Bible and do what it says if you believe |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:09:58 PM EDT
[#48]
It is not the correct interpretation.
It does not say "whoever believes I exist," but whoever believes in Jesus Christ, and what he teaches us. It does not say Jesus took a sheep's place either. Where did that come from? |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:10:03 PM EDT
[#49]
He tells us to repent, which means to turn away from our sins. That right there shows that you at least need to make an effort in not sinning and living how you see fit.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:16:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can't get that free gift of forgiveness without repentence. Repentence is a state of mind that says "sorry and I'll try not to do it again." Going through life saying, hey I can do anything beacuse of forgiveness doesn't cut it. As long as you have that repentence, you can screw up as many times as you want to. I would submit that repentance is doing your very best to never do that sin again. Comitting a sin over and over again and saying you're sorry is not repentance IMO. If your sorry is sincere then it is repentance. I agree. but trying not to do it again and doing your very best not to do it again can be two different things. However, I do believe we are understanding the same principle and agree in the belief of repentance and forgiveness. |
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