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Posted: 8/7/2005 7:47:29 PM EDT
My denomination (United Church of Christ) has voted (at the national level) to welcome gay married couples as a part of our church in the name of diversity.

I called my pastor (who incidentally goes along with this) a moral coward.

If I cant stand up for what I believe is right and stand against what I believe is wrong in my own church... I don't belong there.


I hate that I am being represented by folks with such liberal ideas...

I'm old school and I have to vote with my feet on this one.

I guess the Bapyists are looking better every day.

PITSNIPE OUT
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:49:45 PM EDT
We got a new Pastor that was alright with those rules too. He also started being very open about it duriung services. So far we have lost a lot of members and are now looking for a new Pastor.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 8:04:22 PM EDT
I congradulate you.

My local catholic churches door are always welcome to people like you.

Even if you just visit and don't stay.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:44:11 AM EDT
Abomination just doesn’t mean what it use to.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:38:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:39:40 AM EDT by WildBoar]
From my experience, any church with the word "first" or "united" is usually liberal and do not teach the bible, but political correctness.

Should we welcome them in to sit for a sermon?Absolutely. Do we encourage their behavior? Absolutely not.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:45:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Abomination just doesn’t mean what it use to.



+1
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:46:34 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
****Deleted****<va-gunnut>
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:48:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:47:05 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
****Deleted****<va-gunnut>
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:50:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
I don't see how any church can welcome something so clearly spoken about in the bible. I just don't get it. .



Alot of "churches" have "pastors" (Biblically known as "the blind leading the blind") who don't view the Bible as the authoritative Word of God.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:52:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
<snip>




Go away.

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



"Black" is not a lifestyle choice or a behaviour.

Homosexual sex is.

You are aware of the difference, right??

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:55:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
From my experience, any church with the word "first" or "united" is usually liberal and do not teach the bible, but political correctness.

Should we welcome them in to sit for a sermon?Absolutely. Do we encourage their behavior? Absolutely not.



Can a Brother get an AMEN!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:59:14 AM EDT
The body is a place for sinners to comw to find forgivness and a new life. Welcome the sinner but do not glorify are allow a special pass for any type of sin. All sin is the same in the eyes of the lord it could be something as small as a white lie or as bad as mass murder.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:02:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:48:56 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
****Deleted****<va-gunnut>



man how many nazis do we have slinking around this place? Also how do you klan klowns defend hangin blacks in the name of Christ?

Please take your hate elsewhere as your respons had nothing to do with the topic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:05:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:49:20 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
****Deleted****<va-gunnut>



With all due respect, you are way off base. I would not go to a Gay only organization and demand that that they allow me to participate in their functions and then try to change their core beliefs.

It is a slap in the face of Church to allow this kind of behavior to be condoned. I would not want this on my conscience while having to give account of my actions. My home Church made an open declaration that they would close the doors and disband the Church before this was allowed to happen and I stand behind it fully.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:35:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 7:38:37 AM EDT by StonerStudent]
self deleted
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:36:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:49:43 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
****Deleted****<va-gunnut>
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:49:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:50:19 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
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Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:58:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 7:59:37 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Does your church allow a woman to be stoned to death for adultery?


I was just wondering which parts of the bible it picks and chooses to follow.

It obviously recognizes the context of the passage that anti-gays refer to about man laying with men or beast, unlike you.

Which church will you go to now? One that handles poisonous snakes?



Go away Nazi boy.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:01:38 AM EDT
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha after the queers tried to molest the angels. I'm thinking he may not even love the queers. He has given us all an opportunity to denounce our sins and ask forgiveness through Christ.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin"? I think this is going a little too far.

He never said bring the sinner in and cater to their wishes and let them run the church.

Jesus ran the money changers out of the temple and I don't remember reading that he asked them to come back.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:04:30 AM EDT
Just so I can get a reply in before the thread gets locked, I do not condone homosexual behavior, pedophilia, or mans inhumanity to man in general. I would not go to a church that allows homosexuals to hold church offices. In my church your are welcome to attend but to be a participant in the church you must be born again and baptized. To be born again means no male-male or female-female or human-nonhuman sexual relations. Sex is to be between a man and a woman in a married relationship.

Here is the long and short of it God said it is wrong.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:15:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
Just so I can get a reply in before the thread gets locked, I do not condone homosexual behavior, pedophilia, or mans inhumanity to man in general. I would not go to a church that allows homosexuals to hold church offices. In my church your are welcome to attend but to be a participant in the church you must be born again and baptized. To be born again means no male-male or female-female or human-nonhuman sexual relations. Sex is to be between a man and a woman in a married relationship.

Here is the long and short of it God said it is wrong.



+10,000

I concur. Also I wouldnt attend a church that has a professing fornicator and alcohol abuser running the show. Sin is sin and we should never tolerate encouraging its behavior.

To say we are hateful because we do not condone the behavior is far off base. If I truly believe God says its wrong and for you to continue in it, for me to encourage you to keep on doing it, is pure hatred if I ever saw it. If I really think its harmful to your soul, why would I encourage them to do it. I dont encourage it because of concern and thats out of love. Sure some have the tough love thing going on and there are some haters using religion to justify their evil but they are not being very Christlike.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:25:14 AM EDT
Im a Muslim, not a Christian, so forgive me for speaking regarding your Church. I can't imagine how any House of God can openly condone sin. I understand we are all sinners, and should all be welcome. But the way it sounds, this Church is more interested in being PC than saving these people's souls. To allow them to be "openly" gay in the church is like letting them come in and openly blaspheme God. Sad day.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



man how many nazis do we have slinking around this place? Also how do you klan klowns defend hangin blacks in the name of Christ?

Please take your hate elsewhere as your respons had nothing to do with the topic.



Wildboar I highly doubt he is an 88, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the view of homosexuals.
You can use scripture to justify the way blacks have been treated in this country, it was done for many years.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Im a Muslim, not a Christian, so forgive me for speaking regarding your Church. I can't imagine how any House of God can openly condone sin. I understand we are all sinners, and should all be welcome. But the way it sounds, this Church is more interested in being PC than saving these people's souls. To allow them to be "openly" gay in the church is like letting them come in and openly blaspheme God. Sad day.



I agree completely. Whats next a hedonism retreat for the church? Once again its the typical case of man pleasing himself and not God.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:33:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:34:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:35:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:39:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



how
Please take your hate elsewhere as your respons had nothing to do with the topic.



Wildboar I highly doubt he is an 88, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the view of homosexuals.
You can use scripture to justify the way blacks have been treated in this country, it was done for many years.




I find your acute perception and actual use of logic.... astounding. Are you sure you're an ARFCOMMER ?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:41:42 AM EDT
I stopped going to a local mosque because I saw the teaching shift from the Quran to the Hadith (Which is a post-Quran collection of texts that IMHO contradict the Quran itself.) I just walked away. Any House of God is there for learning. You can choose to learn from God or people. I don't view your action as leaving the Church, on the contrary, I view their decision as leaving God.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:53:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



There is, therefore, neither Jew nor Greek....

That is in scripture.

So are the descriptions of homosexuality as a sin.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:53:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Does your church allow a woman to be stoned to death for adultery?


I was just wondering which parts of the bible it picks and chooses to follow.

It obviously recognizes the context of the passage that anti-gays refer to about man laying with men or beast, unlike you.

Which church will you go to now? One that handles poisonous snakes?



Wow.

Somebody needs a theology tuneup.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:56:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



man how many nazis do we have slinking around this place? Also how do you klan klowns defend hangin blacks in the name of Christ?

Please take your hate elsewhere as your respons had nothing to do with the topic.



Wildboar I highly doubt he is an 88, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the view of homosexuals.
You can use scripture to justify the way blacks have been treated in this country, it was done for many years.




I find your acute perception and actual use of logic.... astounding.

Are you sure you're an ARFCOMMER ?


I just get testy when I see racist comments.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:57:24 AM EDT
Why talk about God when you clearly dont have anything to do with Him?

You go to a church... where men lead men.


You dont like the way the men lead, so you leave and seek other men to lead you.


I fail to see where God shows up in any of this. Go find another man-made church that shares your views, as none of you will share the views of the God you presume to worship.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
Wildboar I highly doubt he is an 88, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the view of homosexuals.
You can use scripture to justify the way blacks have been treated in this country, it was done for many years.




Funny, because most of the people I heard complaining about the way blacks were treated (people like MLK) quoted the Bible quite frequently in defense of their ideas.

People who claim the Bible endorses slavery or Jim Crow are either taking passages out of context to justify their own personal desires, or they are just plain making crap up to try and assault the credibility of the Bible.

A sensible in-context reading will not demonstrate an approval of slavery.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:58:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 9:02:37 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
I used to go to a church that allowed Blacks to speak to Whites, even if the Whites didnt initiate the conversation first.

It got so bad, that when an elderly Black man said "Good morning" to this little white girl, I just had to quit.



man how many nazis do we have slinking around this place? Also how do you klan klowns defend hangin blacks in the name of Christ?

Please take your hate elsewhere as your respons had nothing to do with the topic.



Wildboar I highly doubt he is an 88, he's pointing out the hypocrisy in the view of homosexuals.
You can use scripture to justify the way blacks have been treated in this country, it was done for many years.




Scripture leaves no room for error in the sin of homosexuality. I have honestly never see even a hint of scripture to justify racism. As far as racism, it was the lack of scripture that made it easy to abuse. Folks made stuff up to justify their evil.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:01:35 AM EDT
Why is this so hard for some people to figure out? As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church. However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:03:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Why is this so hard for some people to figure out? As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church. However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.



Again this Christian agrees with you 100%.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:10:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Why is this so hard for some people to figure out? As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church. However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.



Again this Christian agrees with you 100%.



+1

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:15:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Im a Muslim, not a Christian, so forgive me for speaking regarding your Church. I can't imagine how any House of God can openly condone sin. I understand we are all sinners, and should all be welcome. But the way it sounds, this Church is more interested in being PC than saving these people's souls. To allow them to be "openly" gay in the church is like letting them come in and openly blaspheme God. Sad day.



We are in agreement on this point.

I had a lifestyle of sinful behavior before becoming a Christian. One of the things a true Follower must do is repent of the old lifestyle.

Homosexuality wasn't an area of temptation for me, but there were a number of other activities I had to leave behind.

I don't classify sinful behavior by degree. Violation of God's will and standards of conduct is sin. Being imperfect, I still sin, but such behavior is now the exception rather than my normal lifestyle.

"Whatever Happened To Sin?" (Steve Taylor)

The Christian counselor wrote, quote,
"it's the only humane choice ahead
if you can't support it
why don't you abort it instead?"

You say you pray to the sky
why? when you're afraid to take a stand down here
'cause while the holy talk reads like a bad adlib
silence screams you were robbing the crib

Say it ain't none of my business, huh?
a woman's got a right to choose
now a grave-digger
next you pull the trigger
what then?
whatever happened to sin?

I heard the reverend say
"gay is probably normal in the Good Lord's sight
what's to be debated?
Jesus never stated what's right"

I'm no theology nut, but
the reverend may be a little confused
for if the Lord don't care
and he chooses to ignore-ah
tell it to the people
of Sodom and Gomorrah

Call it just an alternate lifestyle, huh?
morality lies within
consciences are restin'
please repeat the question again
whatever happened to sin?

When the closets are empty
and the clinics are full
when your eyes have been blinded
by society's wool
when the streets erupt
in your own backyard
you'll be on your knees
praying for the national guard
if you don't care now
how the problems get solved
you can shake your head later
that you never got involved
'cause the call came ringing
from the throne of gold
but you never got the message
'cause your mind's on hold

A politician next door
swore he'd set the Washington Arena on fire
thinks he'll gladiate them
but they're gonna make him a liar

Well he's a good ole boy
who was born and raised
in the buckle o' the Bible Belt
but remember when you step
into your voting booth
he'll never lie
he'll just embellish the truth

Promises were made to be broken, right?
you've gotta play the game to win
when you need supporting
tell 'em that you're born again
whatever happened to sin?


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:16:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Why talk about God when you clearly dont have anything to do with Him?

You go to a church... where men lead men.


You dont like the way the men lead, so you leave and seek other men to lead you.


I fail to see where God shows up in any of this. Go find another man-made church that shares your views, as none of you will share the views of the God you presume to worship.



I can't wait for the school year to start. *sigh*
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:20:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Why is this so hard for some people to figure out? As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church. However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.



You would absolutely be welcome.

Those who turn a church into an exclusive organization pervert it.

They develop a tribal attitude and try to keep out those they consider "unclean."

They have missed the Gospel.

Fortunately, I believe such churches are in the minority. Unfortunately, those exceptions are what people use to form their opinions of the whole church.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:20:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Why talk about God when you clearly dont have anything to do with Him?

You go to a church... where men lead men.


You dont like the way the men lead, so you leave and seek other men to lead you.


I fail to see where God shows up in any of this. Go find another man-made church that shares your views, as none of you will share the views of the God you presume to worship.



I can't wait for the school year to start. *sigh*



+1
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:55:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Why talk about God when you clearly dont have anything to do with Him?



According to who, you?



You go to a church... where men lead men.



Where The Spirit leads everything. Not men.



You dont like the way the men lead, so you leave and seek other men to lead you.



Well, when men who are supposed to be leaders turn their back on the most basic principles they are supposed to stand for, what exactly are you supposed to do? Buy them a cookie?



I fail to see where God shows up in any of this.



I don't think you could see where God shows up in anything.



Go find another man-made church that shares your views, as none of you will share the views of the God you presume to worship.



One day you will stand before The Creator and answer for that if you don't make it right.

You will have to answer for every foolish word.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:56:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
Why is this so hard for some people to figure out? As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church. However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.



Hallelujah!

Somebody gets it.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:02:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Why talk about God when you clearly dont have anything to do with Him?



According to who, you?



You go to a church... where men lead men.



Where The Spirit leads everything. Not men.



You dont like the way the men lead, so you leave and seek other men to lead you.



Well, when men who are supposed to be leaders turn their back on the most basic principles they are supposed to stand for, what exactly are you supposed to do? Buy them a cookie?



I fail to see where God shows up in any of this.



I don't think you could see where God shows up in anything.



Go find another man-made church that shares your views, as none of you will share the views of the God you presume to worship.



One day you will stand before The Creator and answer for that if you don't make it right.

You will have to answer for every foolish word.



Looks like the Spirit led to homosexuals being accepted as regular people, then. Good counter.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:16:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avtomat_Serpent:
Looks like the Spirit led to homosexuals being accepted as regular people, then. Good counter.



No.

Had you any understanding of proper teaching, you could understand that men have the choice of being guided by the flesh or by The Spirit. Those who are motivated by the flesh will give people what they want and will not hold to truth.

Those who follow The Spirit will walk according to His leading and written Word. Churches who hold to Truth are the ones being guided by The Spirit. Those who abandon truth have deceived themselves and become an abomination before God.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:17:08 AM EDT
Thanks for all of the feedback gents.

I'm not going to apologize for my beliefs...

I'll just seek folks to worship with that share my moral sense of things.

My family and quite frankly several families from my church are of the same opinion...

PITSNIPE OUT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:19:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PITSNIPE:
Thanks for all of the feedback gents.

I'm not going to apologize for my beliefs...

I'll just seek folks to worship with that share my moral sense of things.

My family and quite frankly several families from my church are of the same opinion...

PITSNIPE OUT



Buy truth and sell it not.

Shopping for a church that suits all your tastes is indeed an evil thing, but that is a completely different thing than holding to Bible Truth.

Paul said that if anyone preaches any other Gospel than what the Apostles preached, let them be accursed.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:48:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church.



You are, very much so actually. At least in mine, I won't speak for the others.


However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.


You are exactly right! Plus we request you be baptized also and in good standing with the church to participate.

I must say, I find your views very refreshing for a muslim.

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:04:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:
As a Muslim I would expect to be welcome in a Christian Church.



You are, very much so actually. At least in mine, I won't speak for the others.


However, I would not expect the Church to condone my belief in the Quran, or teach from it. The point of gathering is to learn to FOLLOW God's word, not flaunt your disregard for it. IMHO a House of Worship isn't there to practice diversity. It's there to obey the Almighty.


You are exactly right! Plus we request you be baptized also and in good standing with the church to participate.

I must say, I find your views very refreshing for a muslim.

Sgatr15



I agree. I think he would be a good asset to the forum. I have lots of questions for him.
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