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Posted: 1/2/2012 7:44:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 7:57:42 PM EDT by bearscat]
I was bouncing around the internet and just heard of this. I had no idea this happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

Did you guys know about this? How did Vietnam do so well against the Chinese who were so much massive than the Vietnamese military? It seems like the Chinese would of steam rolled over Vietnam.

I was always under the impression that other than the Sino-Russian split communist countries got along with each other.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 7:46:17 PM EDT
The US was supposed to steam roll over Vietnam too.
The Chinese military sucks, and has poor leadership.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 7:46:59 PM EDT


I remember this.

The Vietnamese did well because they were:

1) On their own territory.
2) Had battle experience.


Link Posted: 1/2/2012 7:51:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 7:52:58 PM EDT by hdhogman]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
Don't know why your link did not work, and, this War is also news to me.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 7:58:50 PM EDT
Vietnam's history back a few thousand years or so is a continual struggle against one occupying power or another, and most often that power was China.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 8:04:10 PM EDT
The Chinese went in cocky and ill-prepared, using routes that really did not support broad-front assaults. The Vietnamese had enough forewarning about the invasion to move assets into ambush positions.

Even so, the Chinese did start to roll back the Vietnamese defenses, but that transport net problem that forced them down certain roads to start with also meant they could not logistically support any follow-on forces. They could push through with the forces onhand and have them defeated in detail, or they could call it a win and leave - they chose the second option.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 8:14:09 PM EDT
What the fuck?

Western estimation : 26,000 killed, 37,000 wounded and 420 tanks destroyed[4]

Chinese claim: 6,954 killed, 14,800 wounded.[5]

and

Western source: 30,000 killed, 32,000 wounded and 185 tanks destroyed[6]

Vietnam claims: 100,000 civilians killed, no figures of military[2]



In only 28 days?
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 8:17:41 PM EDT
Wow - news to me.

The Chinese refer to it as "Defensive Counterattack against Vietnam" lol. Doublespeak FTW
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 8:18:44 PM EDT
The Vietnamese had newer, longer range artillery. The PLA followed the Maoist doctrine of human willpower and thought that given enough troops (cannon fodder), that they could overwhelm the Vietnamese. Well, they marched into prepared fire zones and their own shorter ranged artillery could not perform counter-battery mission. The PLA got its arse handed to them.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 9:52:40 PM EDT
IIRC it's where Yellow Rain was first used.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 9:59:18 PM EDT
The Vietnamese were wishing that they were still engaged with U.S. troops during that time period. Seems the Chinese don't follow the western rules of engagement. I followed through the Wall street journal daily during that time frame. Very nasty little spat.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 10:12:29 PM EDT
War of Northern Aggression.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 10:22:39 PM EDT
I remember.

I fucking loved it, too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 10:40:49 PM EDT
It's the war that blew the domino theory apart. When the US pulled out all the commies ended up fighting each other. Pol Pot is an idiot. China got it's ass handed to it by VN's 3rd string troops. VN has kicked alot of ass but they are pretty heavy into VN idol now so they may have lost some toughness. The fights between VN and China Youtubers is still epic after all these years.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:05:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NBCMarine:
It's the war that blew the domino theory apart. When the US pulled out all the commies ended up fighting each other. Pol Pot is an idiot. China got it's ass handed to it by VN's 3rd string troops. VN has kicked alot of ass but they are pretty heavy into VN idol now so they may have lost some toughness. The fights between VN and China Youtubers is still epic after all these years.


Really. I did not know that. It blew the domino theory apart in that the entirety of southeast asia turned communist with the exception of Thailand, and by the theory proving itself, the fact that the communist governments involved fought amongst themselves disproved it?

Let's review that. The domino theory stated that if we let one country fall to communism, then others would then fall. That, in fact, happened, and millions died as a result. Why do I not understand your explanation of cold war geopolitics?
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:16:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By alexanderredhook:
War of Northern Aggression.


Says the Californian

Look up the Finnish/ Russian war. Numbers alone look like and NFL MVP vs. Special Olymics foosball team, and not the way you'd think it would go. Never underestimate home-field-advantage.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:21:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2012 12:21:38 AM EDT by Tekka]
The Chinese got the crap beat out of them. Chinese veterans from that era do not like to talk about it because it was far more horrific and terrible for them their either country will admit. The Chinese basically got gang raped. Only a few higher ups in their military still remember how bad it was and try to tell the warmongers to shut the fuck up and stop wanting to fight people.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:29:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By NBCMarine:
It's the war that blew the domino theory apart. When the US pulled out all the commies ended up fighting each other. Pol Pot is an idiot. China got it's ass handed to it by VN's 3rd string troops. VN has kicked alot of ass but they are pretty heavy into VN idol now so they may have lost some toughness. The fights between VN and China Youtubers is still epic after all these years.


Really. I did not know that. It blew the domino theory apart in that the entirety of southeast asia turned communist with the exception of Thailand, and by the theory proving itself, the fact that the communist governments involved fought amongst themselves disproved it?

Let's review that. The domino theory stated that if we let one country fall to communism, then others would then fall. That, in fact, happened, and millions died as a result. Why do I not understand your explanation of cold war geopolitics?


QFT
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:34:47 AM EDT
Some of you guys really need to pick up a history book. There's no excuse for not knowing about it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:44:09 AM EDT
Did you know the Vietnamese also invaded Cambodia and got rid of the Khmer Rouge?
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 5:28:24 AM EDT

The Third Indochina War: Conflict between China, Vietnam and Cambodia, 1972-79 by Odd Westad and Sophie Quinn-judge

China's War with Vietnam, 1979: Issues, Decisions, and Implications by King C. Chen

Collateral Damage: Sino-Soviet Rivalry and the Termination of the Sino-Vietnamese Alliance by Nicholas Khoo
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:18:42 AM EDT



Only if Deng had also declared Vietnam had WMD and the Vietnamese really wanted to be liberated.......then it will be all good.....
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:32:58 AM EDT
50s mass-wave assaults don't work very well against guerrillas with belt feds.


Each Chinese squad would be made up of 20-30 guys with Mosin Nagants and one commander with a AK47. The Vietnamese had groups composed entirely of AK47s. The Chinese would try massive waves of attacks against the VNs who had plenty of ammo to burn and the firepower to do it.

In the end, it was more about China 'flexing muscle' and showing the USSR that it couldn't be bullied by obliterating the Vietnamese. Instead it proved to the USSR that the Chinese had no clue.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:47:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Infidelis:


Only if Deng had also declared Vietnam had WMD and the Vietnamese really wanted to be liberated.......then it will be all good.....


Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:47:53 AM EDT
What most people don't remember is that what seemed more likely than a nuclear war between the Soviets and the US back in the late 70s, early 80s was a nuclear war between the Soviets and the Chinese.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:47:57 AM EDT
The Chinese still hadn't got over the turmoil of the Cultural Revolution yet. Their military had absolutely nothing but sheer numbers -lousy logistics and minimal training vs battle hardened Vietnamese who had long since been prepared for a Chinese invasion,regardless of accepting plenty of Chinese aid vs the US the Vietnamese have and always will see China as their natural enemy.

Of course,making nice with China was our way out of the Vietnam war. We traded South Vietnam,Laos and Cambodia for trade with China and that is pretty much the bottom line on this matter. We didn't "lose" the Vietnam war,we decided that it was better to have political and economic ties with China than fight over SEA. Don't bitch at me for speaking the truth,Nixon and Kissenger are the ones who made that decision.

Furthermore,when it came to Cambodia/Kampuchea we opposed the Vietnamese and the communist gov't they set up after kicking out the KR. While we didn't support the KR directly - as China did - we most certainly assisted their allies,namely that worthless crook Sihanouk who helped the North Vietnamese infiltrate South Vietnam AND the KR take over his own country.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:28:48 PM EDT

The more I study Sihanouk, the more I go

He was big pals with the Norks, as well.
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