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Posted: 1/30/2011 8:02:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 8:20:17 PM EDT by rhubarb]
Borderland Beat article on shootout with GRAPHIC pics of dead Mexican terrorists.

I was reading this article and the curved pistol grips and squared off A1 uppers of the first two pictured dead narco-scum remind me of the Norinco CQ. How does it look to you?

This is relevant to my interests in that it would show that not only are all the ARs in Mexico not from the US, but that Communist China is arming our insurrectionist neighbors.



Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:14:34 PM EDT
Chinese copies of the M16 are reported to be in the millions.

Mexico is the primary point of entry of heroin into the United States, which is imported into Mexico from Asia. The "Iron Triangle" has long been a source of weapon and narcotics for the world's black market so I wouldn't be shocked if the narcos were receiving Chinese weapons, but if China is allowing them to buy them they're likely doing so through proxy so that it would be impossible to connect them.

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rhubarb:

This is relevant to my interests in that it would show that not only are all the ARs in Mexico not from the US, but that Communist China is arming our insurrectionist neighbors.

Criminal neighbors.

The cartels have no desire to overthrow the MX govt... It's not an insurrection/rebellion.

They are highly organized crime syndicates, that exist for one simple reason: To make as much money as possible, smuggling as much of everything as possible into the USA.

Not a revolutionary movement, or an anti-American/mexi-power movement... A profit-hungry criminal enterprise...
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:29:39 PM EDT
They had 87 magazines. No wonder..................
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:32:05 PM EDT
I don't think so.

The CQ rifle grips have a much more distinctive curve,like a revolver's, and their more recent M4 copies are a direct copy of a 14.5" M4. I think those are just Hogue or some form of ergo grip. I don't profess to be an expert on Chinese AR's,other than knowing the rifles have handguards that look like sex toys and goofy front sights to go with the dumb grip.

I'm thinking those were much more likely ex-Salvadoran,Honduran or Colombian army weapons.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:52:02 PM EDT
Doesn't look like it to me
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 8:55:03 PM EDT
Used to be quite a few T65s floating around Central America.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 9:02:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 9:03:03 PM EDT by SIRIUS1]
They don't strike me as the Chinese gun.

What definitely caught my attention was the fact that rival gangs have shootout in a Kindergarten school and it's also quite curious regarding the positioning of the rifles upon the dead. Take another look and browse the comments.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 9:19:15 PM EDT
The first two are weird, the last one is a regular A2.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 9:36:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Chinese copies of the M16 are reported to be in the millions.


Really? Where are they? Do any militaries use them?
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:11:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 10:12:14 PM EDT by Fields_Overseer]
pics look staged to you guys too?

ive never seen a body, but one would think the gun would seperate from the hand, one in hand, I could see, but all 3 is just wierd... or maybe Im missing something.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:17:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Chinese copies of the M16 are reported to be in the millions.
Mexico is the primary point of entry of heroin into the United States, which is imported into Mexico from Asia. The "Iron Triangle" has long been a source of weapon and narcotics for the world's black market so I wouldn't be shocked if the narcos were receiving Chinese weapons, but if China is allowing them to buy them they're likely doing so through proxy so that it would be impossible to connect them.

Funny other than in Canada, I havent seen one...T65s, yes..M16A1s..tons...Vietnam, has shitloads of old US ord they been dumping..as well as all the crap we sold/ gave away...

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:35:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fields_Overseer:
pics look staged to you guys too?

ive never seen a body, but one would think the gun would seperate from the hand, one in hand, I could see, but all 3 is just wierd... or maybe Im missing something.


Yeah - & on the second dead guy's gun - the ejection port cover is - CLOSED??

I'd say the guns were staged.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:37:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
Originally Posted By Fields_Overseer:
pics look staged to you guys too?

ive never seen a body, but one would think the gun would seperate from the hand, one in hand, I could see, but all 3 is just wierd... or maybe Im missing something.


Yeah - & on the second dead guy's gun - the ejection port cover is - CLOSED??

I'd say the guns were staged.


This, something about these pictures seems strange as hell.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:46:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarWeapon762:
Originally Posted By FlDiveCop71:
Originally Posted By Fields_Overseer:
pics look staged to you guys too?

ive never seen a body, but one would think the gun would seperate from the hand, one in hand, I could see, but all 3 is just wierd... or maybe Im missing something.


Yeah - & on the second dead guy's gun - the ejection port cover is - CLOSED??

I'd say the guns were staged.


This, something about these pictures seems strange as hell.

Yeah, something is fishy there.

Notice the utter lack of brass. Gun battles with select fire weapons tend to produce quite a bit of it.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:50:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Chinese copies of the M16 are reported to be in the millions.


Really? Where are they? Do any militaries use them?


Iran.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:51:33 PM EDT
Magazine is too long to be a STANAG NATO . Carry handle is oddly shaped. Looks weird
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:52:50 PM EDT
I wouldn't be surprised, the Chinese have been caught selling guns to organized crime before.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:10:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 11:12:34 PM EDT by Mattl]
Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
I wouldn't be surprised, the Chinese have been caught selling guns to organized crime before.




..............and if the Chinese do not sell to them someone else will. Drug cartels are a stupid problem to have.

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:13:13 PM EDT
Odd, druggies with stocks collapsed during a fire fight?
Weapons still in the hands of druggies yet didnt become seperated whilst falling dead....

Staged
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:15:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ex0331:
Odd, druggies with stocks collapsed during a fire fight?
Weapons still in the hands of druggies yet didnt become seperated whilst falling dead....

Staged



I don't think either side is taking prisoners at this point. It is Mexico the cops are likely as dirty as the cartel shooters if not in the employ of cartel even.

Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:20:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By Ex0331:
Odd, druggies with stocks collapsed during a fire fight?
Weapons still in the hands of druggies yet didnt become seperated whilst falling dead....

Staged



I don't think either side is taking prisoners at this point. It is Mexico the cops are likely as dirty as the cartel shooters if not in the employ of cartel even.



The Federales will assassinate criminals and sometimes kill innocent people. When they do this, they plant guns and everyone knows it.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:31:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 11:32:50 PM EDT by rooster4bravo]
Hmm...
So far Arfcom has mentioned EJP doors closed, hands on weapons, no brass, colapsed stocks...what else did I miss?

I can buy all that, in one of the pictures, and it would be odd. In two of the pictures, that's a hell of a coincidence. In all three pictures, I'm gonna stay staged, at best.

Frankly, the photos almost look shopped. Like they didn't even take the time and effort to lift up the guy's hand, and put a gun under it. All that to say, even if they are Chinese, I'm not sure that means anything.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 11:49:20 PM EDT
While it's quite obvious that the photos were staged and that supposed firefight at the Kindergarten never actually happened.

The obvious question is why staged it?

What can a staged scene like this be played into?

Want to wager where they will claim that the rifles used at the Kindergarten shootout originated?

Obvious Political Propaganda is Obvious.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 12:13:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:
Chinese copies of the M16 are reported to be in the millions.

Mexico is the primary point of entry of heroin into the United States, which is imported into Mexico from Asia. The "Iron Triangle" has long been a source of weapon and narcotics for the world's black market so I wouldn't be shocked if the narcos were receiving Chinese weapons, but if China is allowing them to buy them they're likely doing so through proxy so that it would be impossible to connect them.


Mexico has been a producer of heroin for many years now, they are not buying more heroin from Asia as it would cut into their own market.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 1:48:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By Ex0331:
Odd, druggies with stocks collapsed during a fire fight?
Weapons still in the hands of druggies yet didnt become seperated whilst falling dead....

Staged



I don't think either side is taking prisoners at this point. It is Mexico the cops are likely as dirty as the cartel shooters if not in the employ of cartel even.



Well to be fair, I wouldn't cut any slack for animals who have killed my co-workers and families just to make a buck either.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:12:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By rhubarb:

This is relevant to my interests in that it would show that not only are all the ARs in Mexico not from the US, but that Communist China is arming our insurrectionist neighbors.

Criminal neighbors.

The cartels have no desire to overthrow the MX govt... It's not an insurrection/rebellion.

They are highly organized crime syndicates, that exist for one simple reason: To make as much money as possible, smuggling as much of everything as possible into the USA.

Not a revolutionary movement, or an anti-American/mexi-power movement... A profit-hungry criminal enterprise...


in·sur·rec·tion
   /ˌɪnsəˈrɛkʃən/ [in-suh-rek-shuhn]
–noun
an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.


Repeated widespread murders, mutilations, beheadings, kidnappings and car bombings of police and government officials is obviously and overtly an attempt to control the government. In other words, an insurrection.



The rifles in question look to me to be A1 uppers with carbine length barrels and collapsible stocks. That's odd for a modern American configuration. Apart from the unusual pistol grip, the carry handles look narrower and more squared in the front than I'm familiar with. It could be the angle. It could be that they are American hand-me-downs sent to South America and they've been re-barreled by U.S. or Mexican or Colombian or Guatemalan or Panamanian armorers.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:39:46 AM EDT
Staged
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:42:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:52:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 6:53:13 AM EDT by R6551GNR]
The Chinese CQ 5.56 is a direct copy of the M4: 14 1/2" Bbl, removable carry handle, A3 sites, six position stock.

The Chinese M311's were made in the 1980s for the U.S. market. They were supposed to be a copy of the Colt SP1, but came with the weird furniture and finish many are familiar with. There has been no production of these since the 1980s.

After the Chinese weapons ban in the U.S., the M311 was sold in Canada until stocks in China ran out.

The Chinese CQ 5.56 carbine is also sold in Canada. They are sold as complete rifles only, China does not export parts or components for these.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:57:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By rhubarb:

This is relevant to my interests in that it would show that not only are all the ARs in Mexico not from the US, but that Communist China is arming our insurrectionist neighbors.

Criminal neighbors.

The cartels have no desire to overthrow the MX govt... It's not an insurrection/rebellion.

They are highly organized crime syndicates, that exist for one simple reason: To make as much money as possible, smuggling as much of everything as possible into the USA.

Not a revolutionary movement, or an anti-American/mexi-power movement... A profit-hungry criminal enterprise...


I think you are missing the forest for the trees Dave.

When the police, judges, mayors, attorneys, media, and even governors are all killed with impunity, it's irrelevant whether or not the cartels have a desire to overthrow the Mexican government. They are destroying it nonetheless.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:50:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 7:55:17 AM EDT by Prime]
It could very well be that they took the weapons the guys were actually using and then stuck it in their hands so they could get pictures of both at the same time. Meaning the event happened as described, but LE "staged" the bodies/weapons just for documentation purposes.
Looks bad though, no doubt.


-ETA


A cache of 8 rifles, 11 grenades, a grenade launcher and 87 magazines, in addition to 7 vehicles that had previously been reported stolen from the nearby city of Tepic, were recovered from the safehouse and the kindergarden.



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:55:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
Staged


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:07:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

The cartels have no desire to overthrow the MX govt... It's not an insurrection/rebellion.

They are highly organized crime syndicates, that exist for one simple reason: To make as much money as possible, smuggling as much of everything as possible into the USA.

Not a revolutionary movement, or an anti-American/mexi-power movement... A profit-hungry criminal enterprise...


This is the simple fact of the matter. The cartels benefit from keeping things at the current status quo. Hell, it's damned likely that if a viable revolutionary leader comes along, the Mexican government can just sit back and let the Cartels off him.

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