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Posted: 9/30/2004 12:40:21 AM EST
China's Party Chief Tells Army to Be Ready for War

Thu Sep 30, 2004 02:57 AM ET


BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese Communist Party chief and President Hu Jintao has urged the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to prepare for a military struggle, but stopped short of singling out rival Taiwan as the target.

Many security analysts see the Taiwan Strait as the most dangerous flashpoint in Asia. China claims sovereignty over Taiwan and has threatened to attack if the democratic island of 23 million people declares independence.

Hu, who assumed the role of military chief less than two weeks ago, told the 2.5-million-strong PLA to "seize the moment and do a good job of preparing for a military struggle," the People's Daily and the Liberation Army Daily said on Thursday.

Hu did not say against whom the struggle might be fought.

But on Wednesday, a spokesman for China's policymaking Taiwan Affairs Office accused Taiwan Premier Yu Shyi-kun of clamoring for war with threats to fire missiles at Shanghai if the PLA attacked the self-ruled island.

Taiwan needed a counter-strike capability, Yu said in defense of plans to buy T$610.8 billion (US$18.2 billion) worth of weapons from the United States.

He made the remarks hours before thousands of people took to the streets of Taipei on Saturday to demand the government scrap the weapons package they said would trigger an arms race with China and squeeze social welfare and state spending on education.

Tension between China and Taiwan has been simmering since the re-election in March of the island's President Chen Shui-bian, who Beijing is convinced will push for statehood during his second four-year term.

Beijing and Taipei have been rivals since their split at the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949, but trade, investment and tourism have blossomed since detente in the late 1980s.

Hu also urged the PLA, the world's biggest army, to "comprehensively revolutionize, modernize and standardize," newspapers said. No details were given.

Hu, 61, replaced Jiang Zemin, 78, as chairman of the Central Military Commission on Sept. 19, completing the most orderly leadership succession in the 55 years since the Communist Party took power.

The following day he promoted two senior officers in a move that was likely to help consolidate his position in the PLA.


www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6373566
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:07:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:16:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:39:48 AM EST
For almost a century communist rulers have used external threats, many fabricated, to keep people motivated and loyal.

Since there is no real poosibility of Taiwan invading mainland China, and we're not looking to duke it out with them, I would say:

1. This is more talk of defending the motherland from the imperialist aggressors, or

2. This is preparation for offensive operations by them against Taiwan.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:47:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
in the coming years this is going to be a SERIOUS problem




Would be really bad/interesting if they went at each other right after we went after North Korea
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:23:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:36:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
hu's on first?

walmart would collapse if china and taiwan went at it.



Walmart and many other discount retailers.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:38:13 AM EST
[redneck] "Brang idd own! [/redneck]
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:42:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
hu's on first?

walmart would collapse if china and taiwan went at it.



Walmart and many other discount retailers.



Dell and Best Buys.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:47:00 AM EST
And I notice that in the list of states/countries that people have to use for their profiles, AR15.com lists Taiwan as "Taiwan, Province of China".

How 'bout fixing that? You can just truncate it to "Taiwan", or if you want to be nice, make it "Republic of Taiwan".
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:49:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By injun-ear:
[redneck] "Brang idd own! [/redneck]



[redneck] "Git'R Done!" [/redneck]
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:25:54 AM EST
Let's not forget that China is coping with a huge surplus of men, especially in rural areas. They're looking for a way to "cull the herd". What better way than a patriotic cause.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:31:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
hu's on first?

walmart would collapse if china and taiwan went at it.



Walmart and many other discount retailers.



Dell and Best Buys.



The entire computer industry would go nuts...

$3000 'cheap' PCs again, folks?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:33:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
And I notice that in the list of states/countries that people have to use for their profiles, AR15.com lists Taiwan as "Taiwan, Province of China".

How 'bout fixing that? You can just truncate it to "Taiwan", or if you want to be nice, make it "Republic of Taiwan".



It's officially ROC (Republic of China), as the Taiwanese believe (or believed) that they are the legit govt of the mainland...

In any case, the USN is the least burdended by the war-on-terror, we could probably spare a few CVNs for Taiwan & let the Air Force take over in Iraq/A-stan...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:35:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:37:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

He made the remarks hours before thousands of people took to the streets of Taipei on Saturday to demand the government scrap the weapons package they said would trigger an arms race with China and squeeze social welfare and state spending on education.




You have GOT to be shitting me. If they care even one bit for their independance, they'd better be goin "Israel" real quick.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:38:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
in the coming years this is going to be a SERIOUS problem

yup
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:46:37 AM EST
It is estimated that less that 30% of the Taiwanese population wants independence at all. The majority of Taiwan's people still consider Taiwan as a part of China. Remember that the ROC was the party in power in Mainland China prior to WWII that failed to defend the country (including Taiwan) from the Japanese.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:50:40 AM EST
ROC for Taiwan and PRC for the mainland.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:02:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 7:03:05 AM EST by Dog1]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
hu's on first?

walmart would collapse if china and taiwan went at it.




Gee that would be terrible.



No it would not...I don't shop anywhere else....screw those unionized, high priced other stores...if there is a choice, I will not support a store that has a union...unions are legalized extortion
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:16:10 AM EST
the country of Walmart would not allow this to happen- it would sent in its peacekeeping troops.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:03:18 AM EST
Most of the Taiwanese I know support unification with China, even if it's under China's terms. They don't seem to be troubled by the slow crack down that's clearly taking place in Hong Kong either. I certainly don't think we should shed any blood for them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:11:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By G-Rated:

Originally Posted By vito113:

He made the remarks hours before thousands of people took to the streets of Taipei on Saturday to demand the government scrap the weapons package they said would trigger an arms race with China and squeeze social welfare and state spending on education.




You have GOT to be shitting me. If they care even one bit for their independance, they'd better be goin "Israel" real quick.



No… deadly serious… but some of the comments from Taiwans Gov are REALLY going to get China mad!

"China blasts Taiwan PM's threat of missile strike

Yu Shyi-kun's remarks on counter-attack against China seen as provocation and clamour for war, says Beijing spokesman

By Goh Sui Noi

BEIJING - China yesterday slammed Taiwanese Premier Yu Shyi-kun for threatening to fire missiles at Shanghai in the event of an attack by the mainland.

'Yu Shyi-kun's remarks are a serious provocation and clamour for war,' Mr Li Weiyi, spokesman for the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council, told a regular press conference.

The United States on Monday also mildly rebuked Taiwan, with State Department spokesman Adam Ereli saying that 'we would prefer to see comments that focus on dialogue as opposed to references to the use of force or other unilateral moves'.

Last Saturday, Mr Yu spoke about launching a missile counter-attack on Shanghai should China fire missiles at Taiwan. He was defending his government's plan to spend NT$610 billion (S$31 billion) on advanced weapons from the United States.

'The best scenario will see a 'balance of terror' being maintained across the Taiwan Strait so that national security is safeguarded,' he said in response to protests against the proposed purchase of anti-missile systems, submarines and anti-submarine aircraft.

'If you fire 100 missiles at me, I should be able to fire at least 50 at you. If you launch an attack on Taipei and Kaohsiung, I should be able to launch a counter-attack on Shanghai,' Mr Yu added.


China's spokesman yesterday slammed the Taiwanese Premier's remarks as 'war-provoking behaviour', and said they 'thoroughly exposed the nature of the Taiwan authorities, which is to fake peace but truly seek independence'.

He also hit out at Taiwan's weapons purchase plans, accusing it of seeking independence through armed force.

'This again proves that separatist forces are seriously threatening peace in the Taiwan Strait region,' he said.

Responding to Mr Li's remarks, Taiwan said yesterday that it had no intention of provoking China and was seeking weapons from the US for defensive purposes only.

'Beijing's sabre-rattling and missile threat only moves the two sides of the Taiwan Strait farther apart,' Taiwanese Cabinet spokesman Chen Chi-mai was quoted as saying by the Central News Agency.

This latest war of words comes as Taiwan's parliament is due to debate the arms purchase, which the Chen Shui-bian administration has said is needed to counter the military threat from China, including more than 600 missiles aimed at the island.

Taiwan itself recently test-fired missiles that have the capability to hit Chinese coastal and interior cities, according to Taiwanese news reports.

Taiwan has been under pressure from the Americans to do more to defend itself, including purchasing more weapons and improving its defence capability.

US analysts have warned that the perception that Taiwan was doing little to defend itself could undermine Washington's support for it.

But over the weekend, thousands of Taiwanese took to the streets to oppose the arms purchase. They were of the view that this would lead to an arms race and even war.

Meanwhile, a Taiwanese lawmaker said Taiwan may have the technology to mass produce mid-range missiles capable of striking Shanghai in two years.

His remarks added teeth to the Taiwanese Premier's warning that the island will retaliate if China attacks.

Taiwan began a seven-year development programme for mid-range missiles in 1980, but it was forced to stop by the US in 1981, according to Mr Lee Wen-chung, parliament's defence committee chairman.

'We still have a secret budget for the development of the missiles,' he told Bloomberg News, but did not elaborate.


straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,275328,00.html
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:19:07 AM EST
This may sound goofy but North Korea could be the target!!!

Reasons:

1. When Red China invaded Korea during the Korean war it wasn't to support fellow Commies it was because they felt threatened when our troops approached the border to China and Mac Arthur wanted to bomb china!

2. North Korea= Lenninist
China= Maoist
Despite both being communist per se, Lenninist and Maoist get along like Oil and Water!

3. North Korea is becoming a Nuclear power, see numbah 2, North Korea and their insane regime is as dangerous to China as it is to Japan , South Korea And Us!

4. They can invade North Korea, Because they CAN! Their Army is big enough, and it would be a good test case to see the effectiveness of their tactics and weaponry in a Live fire setting!

Any questions?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:36:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
This may sound goofy but North Korea could be the target!!!



Probably not a goofy idea! China plays a very long game… and China will always do whats best for China. You could have a point, the unstable regime in North Korea could be seen in Peking as a threat to it's own longer term goals by sparking off a regional war which would be very much not in China's interest…

Interesting thought…

Andy
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:33:09 PM EST
I just returned from a 10 day tip to Hong Kong and Taipei. The papers there are filled with opinions of people freaking out about the latest stance from the ROC. There are protests from a huge contingent of the military there as well - some 50+ upper echelon Generals and such have officially protested the latest build up proposals as well.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:35:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:58:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 10:59:56 PM EST by warlord]

Originally Posted By mattja:
Most of the Taiwanese I know support unification with China, even if it's under China's terms. They don't seem to be troubled by the slow crack down that's clearly taking place in Hong Kong either. I certainly don't think we should shed any blood for them.


I actually spoke with a Chinese man who used to live in Hong Kong and immigrated to the USA. He said that under the PRC, the people of Hong Kong has more say so in the govt than at any other time under British rule. For example, when the the Brits pick a governor, the people of Hong Kong must accept him, the PRC more or less let Hong Kong elect their governor.

Computer companies based in Taiwan also own most of the factories in the PRC churning out computer products.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:11:20 PM EST
"Hu, who "



Ha, Ha
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:19:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
What does this mean to the supply of Tacpoints?



Hopefully it means we'll be entering the Chinese new year of the "Aim"points.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:28:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
What does this mean to the supply of Tacpoints?




Nothing, $$$ is $$$.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:40:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 2:41:18 PM EST by IamtheNRA]
1. NK threatens to use nukes.

2. China freaks out and obliterates NK.

3. USA looks the other way at China nuking NK in exchange for Taiwan.

4. China "forgets" about Taiwan.

5. USA and China take over the world and everyone is happy...


Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:14:13 PM EST
Hopefully we'll subcontract the diesel boats out to the Dutch, Japanese, British, Germans or Russians, since we've been long out of the diesel boat business...

However, I doubt that the Japanese would build them for constitutional reasons, and the others would be loath to build them for fear of pissing off the PRC.

I wonder who that leaves...

The French?

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:19:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By ftierson:
Hopefully we'll subcontract the diesel boats out to the Dutch, Japanese, British, Germans or Russians, since we've been long out of the diesel boat business...

However, I doubt that the Japanese would build them for constitutional reasons, and the others would be loath to build them for fear of pissing off the PRC.

I wonder who that leaves...

The French?




The Swedes make an excellent "convential" sub, it is so good the U.S. Navy is "renting" one of Sweden's subs and the Swedish crew gets to play aggressor in some shallow water training for our SSN's.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:23:22 PM EST
You would think that the Chinese have enough to do with Al Qaeda on their border. A couple of years ago Muslim extremists attacked a Chinese police station and wiped it out. The Chinese retaliated (but I don't know the extent).
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:36:53 PM EST
I don't mean to be difficult, but what the hell do you expect an Army leader to say?
"Don't worry about war, I don't see it as a problem."
I would be more worried if he didn't say be ready for war.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:40:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
U.S. to build 8 subs in deal with Taiwan
Taiwan's new representative to the United States, David Tawei Lee, said yesterday that the submarines would be built "probably in Mississippi, in [former Senate Majority Leader] Trent Lott's state."




I like how that was pointed out. Nevermind that one of the oldest shipyards in the country is located there. Let's just focus on the politics of the matter.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:26:12 PM EST
You just gotta love the Chicoms....they have over 500 missiles aimed at Taiwan right now, and they're adding to the total every year...but it's a PROVOCATION if Taiwan threatens to retiliate if the Chicoms decide to attack them. That's priceless.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:48:30 PM EST
Taiwan should go nuclear.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:51:50 PM EST
Time to stock up and get ready. China is already on a war footing and their thirst for oil is way out of line with the population and the automobiles. They are stocking up on stragegic reserves.

Get your ammo ready.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:05:56 PM EST
if it comes to that no ammo is going to help the Gamma decay rate fast enough for our generation.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:10:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By longun45:
Time to stock up and get ready. China is already on a war footing and their thirst for oil is way out of line with the population and the automobiles. They are stocking up on stragegic reserves.

Get your ammo ready.



Ive been saying this for years "The end of the world is coming" I tell ya.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:21:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By longun45:
Time to stock up and get ready. China is already on a war footing and their thirst for oil is way out of line with the population and the automobiles. They are stocking up on stragegic reserves.

Get your ammo ready.



Time to stock up on AIM-120s, AIM-9Xs, and Harpoons....

Any China/Taiwan conflict will be 100% Air Force & Navy...

The only ground forces involved will be Marines who provide security on USN ships...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:34:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:
And I notice that in the list of states/countries that people have to use for their profiles, AR15.com lists Taiwan as "Taiwan, Province of China".

How 'bout fixing that? You can just truncate it to "Taiwan", or if you want to be nice, make it "Republic of Taiwan".



It's officially ROC (Republic of China), as the Taiwanese believe (or believed) that they are the legit govt of the mainland...




The situation is a little mixed. The original ruling party of the Republic of China (established in 1911 on the mainland), the KMT, went to Taiwan (the island) in 1949. From 1949 until the mid 70s (I forget the exact date), everyone recognized this govt as being "China."

Then, first the UN, then Jimmah! Carter changed recognition to the PRC. For a while the KMT still maintained the Republic of China title, and the idea that they are the legit govt. It's still official. The thing is, the new ruling party, the DPP (Democratic People's Party, sounds rather socialist to me) doesn't even want the "China" name. They want to be just "Taiwan," and wants no claim to the mainland.
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