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Posted: 12/21/2009 4:51:43 AM EDT
Big news in treasury land today, even the WSJ is commenting on it.

Following are original comments from the Middle Kingdom:


Published on ShanghaiDaily.com (http://www.shanghaidaily.com/)
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200912/20091218/article_423054.htm

Harder to buy US Treasuries
Created: 2009-12-18 0:13:35
Author:Zhou Xin and Jason Subler

IT is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US's shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas, a Chinese central bank official said yesterday.

The comments by Zhu Min, deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, referred to the overall situation globally, not specifically to China, the biggest foreign holder of US government bonds.

Chinese officials generally are very careful about commenting on the dollar and Treasuries, given that so much of its US$2.3 trillion reserves are tied to their value, and markets always watch any such comments closely for signs of any shift in how it manages its assets.

China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange reaffirmed this month that the dollar stands secure as the anchor of the currency reserves it manages, even as the country seeks to diversify its investments.

In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.

He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.

"The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries," Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. "Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible."

"The US current account deficit is falling as residents' savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world," he added. "The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries."

China continues to see its foreign exchange reserves grow, albeit at a slower pace than in past years, due to a large trade surplus and inflows of foreign investment. They stood at US$2.3 trillion at the end of September.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:01:07 AM EDT




Originally Posted By 30calslut:

Big news in treasury land today, even the WSJ is commenting on it.



Following are original comments from the Middle Kingdom:







Published on ShanghaiDaily.com (http://www.shanghaidaily.com/)

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200912/20091218/article_423054.htm



Harder to buy US Treasuries

Created: 2009-12-18 0:13:35

Author:Zhou Xin and Jason Subler



IT is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US's shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas, a Chinese central bank official said yesterday.



The comments by Zhu Min, deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, referred to the overall situation globally, not specifically to China, the biggest foreign holder of US government bonds.



Chinese officials generally are very careful about commenting on the dollar and Treasuries, given that so much of its US$2.3 trillion reserves are tied to their value, and markets always watch any such comments closely for signs of any shift in how it manages its assets.



China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange reaffirmed this month that the dollar stands secure as the anchor of the currency reserves it manages, even as the country seeks to diversify its investments.



In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.



He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.



"The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries," Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. "Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible."



"The US current account deficit is falling as residents' savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world," he added. "The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries."



China continues to see its foreign exchange reserves grow, albeit at a slower pace than in past years, due to a large trade surplus and inflows of foreign investment. They stood at US$2.3 trillion at the end of September.





Meanwhile the asshats in Congress are about to pass a ...WAIT FOR IT... $2.3 TRILLION Obamacare nightmare over 10 years. How do you spell dilution? I don't blame the Chicoms at all.



Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:07:38 AM EDT
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds.  They aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:13:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By agillig:
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds.  They aren't worth the paper they're written on.




Can you imagine if they didn't.

Short term Tbills are still selling ,............ long term ones?


I think the world knows that we won't be able to make good on them when they are due.


Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:20:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2009 5:20:51 AM EDT by orangelo]
You can justifiably call the Chinese many things: ruthless, communist, genocidal, expansionist.



But "sucks at math" ain't one of them. They have had enough of the black jesus' shenanigans
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:23:31 AM EDT



Originally Posted By orangelo:


You can justifiably call the Chinese many things: ruthless, communist, genocidal, expansionist.



But "sucks at math" ain't one of them. They have had enough of the black jesus' shenanigans


They good at calculation



 
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:26:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
Originally Posted By agillig:
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds.  They aren't worth the paper they're written on.




Can you imagine if they didn't.

Short term Tbills are still selling ,............ long term ones?


I think the world knows that we won't be able to make good on them when they are due.






What exactly does the US Government "make good" with?  The only thing the Government
has to offer is more of the same.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:28:08 AM EDT




Originally Posted By TheTracker:



Originally Posted By agillig:

The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds. They aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Can you imagine if they didn't.



Short term Tbills are still selling ,............ long term ones?





I think the world knows that we won't be able to make good on them when they are due.









I agree.  I think its highly unlikely they are going to go Red Dawn on us to recover their assets, although Obama might allow it in the issue of "fairness".  But realistically, no, it probably won't happen.  



The world needs to stop buying these bonds.  Its better for us in the long run, and they won't be throwing away money propping up a paper tiger.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:29:55 AM EDT
It kind of makes me lose respect for them as an enemy or potential enemy that they don't at least somewhat pull the rug from under us.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:30:27 AM EDT
Denninger said the other day that the Chinese bought zero US bonds in November.  And that Asia was a net-seller of US debt in the past month.  Meanwhile: Link
According to Times sources, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have used $112 billion of the total $400 billion they were promised from the U.S. Treasury, but now may be looking for $400 billion more — each. GMAC has $13.4 billion from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, but may receive up to $5.6 billion more. AIG had received $40 billion, but already has drawn $2 billion more.

The development is troubling on numerous fronts:

The bailout figures cited above don’t even cover all the institutions’ indebtedness. In some cases, the companies have secured state or federal loans and guarantees over and above the TARP bailout money.

It appears that some of the companies are seeking more money from the government just to pay back the “interest” on their current government loans. They can’t keep up with what they owe the U.S. Treasury now, much less hope to pay off additional bailout money should they require it to meet future new obligations in the marketplace. This creates a potentially endless spiral of indebtedness, perilous for the Treasury and the nation.


The credit card has finally been canceled, the fridge is empty, and the rent is four months overdue.  Treasury and the Fed have kept things afloat by directly buying and by having TARPed banks buy bonds as foreign buyers have recognized the incoming shitstorm, and in effect the Federal government is lending money to itself in quantities never before imagined.   No way are we repaying this.  I don't know how long it will be before the Federal debt default, but it will do Very Bad Things to the economy when it happens.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:32:25 AM EDT
Why is it I find myself in agreement with the Russsians and Chinese on US financial policies?
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:32:48 AM EDT
One way or another, they are going to recover their money..............  

vmax84
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:34:20 AM EDT
This may be the only thing that prevents socialized medicine... but i am not counting on congress to care about that either...

it is like the cc company calling up and threatening to cancel your card, do you keep going or pay attention.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:39:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
it is like the cc company calling up and threatening to cancel your card, do you keep going or pay attention.


Actually, I understand that many people in that situation think "what the hell, it's not like I'm paying any of this back" and go on one last shopping binge.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:39:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:
Why is it I find myself in agreement with the Russsians and Chinese on US financial policies?


Because they have nothing to lose by calling things as they stand, and everything to gain at this point.  

Our current financial status is just desserts, in my ever so humble opinion.  This is because we've had the inmates run the asylum for so long...
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:42:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By agillig:
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds.  They aren't worth the paper they're written on.


Me thinks the ChiComs are in it too deep and must go all in our toiltet paper dollars...
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:43:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By agillig:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:
Originally Posted By agillig:
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds. They aren't worth the paper they're written on.




Can you imagine if they didn't.

Short term Tbills are still selling ,............ long term ones?


I think the world knows that we won't be able to make good on them when they are due.




I agree.  I think its highly unlikely they are going to go Red Dawn on us to recover their assets, although Obama might allow it in the issue of "fairness".  But realistically, no, it probably won't happen.  

The world needs to stop buying these bonds.  Its better for us in the long run, and they won't be throwing away money propping up a paper tiger.






It really would be a good wake up call to our government if they stopped.


Some thing would be worked out . China is just as dependent on us as we are on them.


If our dollar crashes . So does their country economically.


They knows this and so do we.


It's like a sick abusive relationship  between two people .

Both know it's bad , but they just hold on to it.

Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:44:02 AM EDT
the dollar is in effect backed only by the promise of a grade A asskicking at the hands of the U.S. Military....essentially making us all thugs, really, which is funny given how high and mighty and moral some of us wax over the most meaningless crap.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 5:44:20 AM EDT


If they wanted to trade ObamaLamaDingDong and the rest of the shitbags in Washington for a little debt payoff, I'd be willing.
They could do whatever they want with them. I just hope they don't find out their actually not worth much.


Link Posted: 12/21/2009 6:07:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2009 6:10:54 AM EDT by agillig]




Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

Why is it I find myself in agreement with the Russsians and Chinese on US financial policies?




Friend, I'll try to explain why. I think its because deep down you know that....





Even though the Russians and Chinese are hardcore leftists who hate the idea of individual liberties and are completely devoid of ANY common decency, they are not IDIOTS per se. Obama, on the other hand, is a hardcore leftist who hates the idea of individual liberties for certain groups AND is an idiot. He is a tool, a pawn.





Think of it like this- Compare an Islamic mullah to a suicide bomber. On the surface, they stand for the same thing, but not really. The Mullah knows he's using the suicide bomber for his own gain. The peon blows himself up, and the Mullah grows in power. Obama is like the crazy fanatic. The mullahs never really believed in Islam, they used it for their own gain. But now you've got some goat raping mouth breather running the Taliban because he played the game and believed the idealogy.



THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH OBAMA COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COMMIES. COMMUNISTS OVERSEAS KNOW THAT THEIR SYSTEM IS A LIE-THEY'VE LIVED IN THEIR WHOLE LIVES. "WORKERS UNITE" WAS NEVER ABOUT WORKERS, BUT POLITICIANS. OBAMA, IN HIS SHELTERED, AMERICAN LIFE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT COMMUNISM WAS A MEANS TO AN END-POWER. HE'S STILL BUYING INTO THE SYSTEM, EVEN REAL COMMUNISTS LAUGHED AT THE PUNCHLINE 20 YEARS AGO.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 6:10:00 AM EDT



Originally Posted By agillig:





Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

Why is it I find myself in agreement with the Russsians and Chinese on US financial policies?




Friend, I'll try to explain why. I think its because deep down you know that....





Even though the Russians and Chinese are hardcore leftists who hate the idea of individual liberties and are completely devoid of ANY common decency, they are not IDIOTS per se. Obama, on the other hand, is a hardcore leftist who hates the idea of individual liberties for certain groups AND is an idiot. He is a tool, a pawn.





Think of it like this- Compare an Islamic mullah to a suicide bomber. On the surface, they stand for the same thing, but not really. The Mullah knows he's using the suicide bomber for his own gain. The peon blows himself up, and the Mullah grows in power. Obama is like the crazy fanatic. The mullahs never really believed in Islam, they used it for their own gain. But now you've got some goat raping mouth breeder running the Taliban because he played the game and believed the idealogy.



THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH OBAMA COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COMMIES. COMMUNISTS OVERSEAS KNOW THAT THEIR SYSTEM IS A LIE-THEY'VE LIVED IN THEIR WHOLE LIVES. "WORKERS UNITE" WAS NEVER ABOUT WORKERS, BUT POLITICIANS. OBAMA, IN HIS SHELTERED, AMERICAN LIFE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT COMMUNISM WAS A MEANS TO AN END-POWER. HE'S STILL BUYING INTO THE SYSTEM, EVEN REAL COMMUNISTS LAUGHED AT THE PUNCHLINE 20 YEARS AGO.
No, Obama knows damn well what he is doing...





 
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 6:14:00 AM EDT




Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:





Originally Posted By agillig:





Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

Why is it I find myself in agreement with the Russsians and Chinese on US financial policies?




Friend, I'll try to explain why. I think its because deep down you know that....





Even though the Russians and Chinese are hardcore leftists who hate the idea of individual liberties and are completely devoid of ANY common decency, they are not IDIOTS per se. Obama, on the other hand, is a hardcore leftist who hates the idea of individual liberties for certain groups AND is an idiot. He is a tool, a pawn.





Think of it like this- Compare an Islamic mullah to a suicide bomber. On the surface, they stand for the same thing, but not really. The Mullah knows he's using the suicide bomber for his own gain. The peon blows himself up, and the Mullah grows in power. Obama is like the crazy fanatic. The mullahs never really believed in Islam, they used it for their own gain. But now you've got some goat raping mouth breeder running the Taliban because he played the game and believed the idealogy.



THAT'S THE WAY IT IS WITH OBAMA COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COMMIES. COMMUNISTS OVERSEAS KNOW THAT THEIR SYSTEM IS A LIE-THEY'VE LIVED IN THEIR WHOLE LIVES. "WORKERS UNITE" WAS NEVER ABOUT WORKERS, BUT POLITICIANS. OBAMA, IN HIS SHELTERED, AMERICAN LIFE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT COMMUNISM WAS A MEANS TO AN END-POWER. HE'S STILL BUYING INTO THE SYSTEM, EVEN REAL COMMUNISTS LAUGHED AT THE PUNCHLINE 20 YEARS AGO.
No, Obama knows damn well what he is doing...







He thinks he knows what he's doing.  Obama is an intellectual light weight.  There's a reason why he won't take hard interviews.  In that soundbite Hannity always plays, Obama talks about having one of his henchmen debate Hannity cuz "he'd tear him up".  Why won't Obama talk on Hannity?



If by there is some greater scheme going on, Obama isn't the brains.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 6:23:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By agillig:
The Chinese are IDIOTS for buying these bonds.  They aren't worth the paper they're written on.


LOL - they aren't even on paper any more, most of these are completely electronic.

Seriously though, these are basically the exact same bonds that back Social Security, state pension plans, 401(k) bond funds, many money market accounts, etc.

When this house of cards collapse, China won't be the only one feeling the pain.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:04:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:14:02 AM EDT
these threads always make my blood pressure skyrocket
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:17:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2009 8:17:48 AM EDT by TheTracker]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
China is just as dependent on us as we are on them.


No, they arent. Do not kid yourself nor buy into that idea.


If our dollar crashes . So does their country economically.


They have no where near as far to fall as we do, and they would recover much faster, thus they are not nearly as concerned about it as we are.



All the debt they hold from us , plus all the imports we get.

It's not just our debt that they buy.

The whole world system is based on our dollar.

It would be a domino affect to all countries in the world.

We fail , we take everyone down with us.

Other countries will recover faster , I grant you that.



Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:21:30 AM EDT
I want to know how long this will go on (But then I bet everyone does).



The stock market is up 110 points or so.......why? Because of blind hope........





They keep mortgaging more and more of my family's future for their own greed, it has to stop , and IMO the only thing that's gonna stop it is an all out collapse.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:26:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
No, Obama knows damn well what he is doing...

 


Agreed.  Many people make the huge and fatal mistake that these Feminists / Marxists are just stupid.  

They are NOT.  They are extremely clever in pursuing their intended ends, which are Evil and the Destruction of Civilization. (even by their own admission!!)

By blowing them off as just stupid or whatever, you are doing exactly what we did to those "ragheads" who managed to murder 3,000 of our fellow Countrymen.  Suntzu wrote about it many years ago: if you underestimate your enemy, or fail to know them and respect them?  You're gonna get up-ended.

This is why Feminists / Leftists have gained the ground they have, is because we laugh at them like they're funny and misguided instead of knowing that they are very clever and intent on Evil design...

Link Posted: 12/21/2009 8:27:48 AM EDT
It's really pathetic that the COMMUNISTS know more about Capitalism than the current crop of "leaders" in Washington does.
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