China Plans Lunar Base

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - China Plans Lunar Base (Page 1 of 2)

rainman

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Posted: 5/21/2002 11:30:21 AM EDT

[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 11:36:02 AM EDT by rainman]

Will the United States allow China to build a lunar base? What would be the result of such a thing happening? Does China really believe they can accomplish this in the next 15 or so years? Do we have any plans in the near future for a continually manned lunar base? What would be the potential military threat of a base on the moon? Read the story on Drudge.

trickshot Joined Feb 2001 Posts 1272 EE Offline NC, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 11:47:01 AM EDT Hey, China should put it in a letter and mail it to 1969 when someone might give a damn! They lost the space race by over 30 years!

M4_Aiming_at_U Joined Oct 2001 Posts 373 EE Offline CO, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 11:54:00 AM EDT Will we allow it? LOL they DONT care if we allow it or not! I really dont tihnk they have the technology for it anytime soon anyhow.

AR_Rifle Joined Jan 2001 Posts 1907 EE Offline VA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 11:57:07 AM EDT Good then, we will have egg foo young and kung pao chicken when we get there.

rainman Joined Nov 2000 Posts 952 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 11:59:49 AM EDT Will the man in the moon be a chi-com?

Renamed Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2143 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 12:01:51 PM EDT If the Chinese get a big enough head start, the question will be whether or not they'll allow [i]us[/i] to build a moon base. They've seen where the high ground is going to be and they've decided to grab it.

Nick

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Posted: 5/21/2002 12:11:46 PM EDT

[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 12:12:46 PM EDT by Nick]

Yes I think is possible. They have stolen technology from the US and the western world. They have the funding (let the people starve, and tax the hell out of foreign investor) They don't care for human life. (They will keep trying until they get a living body on the moon, if he freezes to death they will send another one.) They work with a bigger margin of error. Threat to US? Definitely!! First think how the US will look if China establish a base on the moon (even if its no larger than your cubical)

rainman Joined Nov 2000 Posts 956 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 12:34:33 PM EDT Thats what I was thinking Nick. Something small. Just big enough for a cot and a shitter. Call it a lunar base. Jesus, the ramifications of that happening.

71-Hour_Achmed

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Posted: 5/21/2002 12:58:55 PM EDT

Remember the story of the tortoise and the hare? The U.S. and the U.S.S.R. sprinted ahead and had a huge head start on everyone else. Then the U.S.S.R. dropped out. Then the U.S. dropped out. While we've been wasting the last decade putting up an "International Space Station" which was really a cover story for giving out foreign aid, the Chinese have been developing their own manned space program. They launched and recovered a test capsule a month or so ago. Now the Chinese can win, if they want. Putting a base on the Moon has never been that hard; it's a matter of desire and money. NASA and the feds frittered away both.

satcong Member Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2199 EE Offline AZ, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 1:16:14 PM EDT [Last Edit: 5/21/2002 1:17:16 PM EDT by satcong] [img]http://www.animus-web.demon.co.uk/eagle/1999sea1.jpg[/img] [b]Martin Landau is already there![/b]

mattja Member Joined Jan 2001 Posts 3188 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 1:31:33 PM EDT The question should be how much help are they going to get from the US, both technically and financially? And how much of your pay check are they going to take to make it happen? If they ever tried, you can bet your ass companies like Wally World will lobby Congress in their favor to no end. Anything to insure those cheap Chinese imports keep on flowing in.
	"Okay, but I'm not good at details, or the big picture. I also show up late, and drunk. I've got a good feeling about this." - Homer Simpson

mcgredo Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 295 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 3:27:04 PM EDT I can't imagine anything they could mine that would be worth the money of setting up a moon base. Prices for commodities like minerals have been steadily dropping for decades.

TOW2B Member Joined Dec 2001 Posts 57 EE Offline AZ, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 3:33:20 PM EDT Its hard to imagine that the have the capabilities, they just learned how to do mid-air refueling. mattja you make some very good points. Something we should keep an eye on.

KBaker

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Posted: 5/21/2002 3:33:29 PM EDT

The future is "Out There" and the Chinese understand that. Their system of government allows them to spend money on whatevert the hell they want, and their culture reveres education. (How many U.S. doctoral candidates are mainland Chinese?) I think they're serious, and I think they can do it. And we can't stop them. And we lack the will to challenge them by getting there at all, much less first.

Why in the hell do think they've been showing "Personal Lubricant" commercials so much latlety on television..............it's to minimize the damage when we are truly F**ked!!! - Fireguy3

Javak Member Joined Jun 2001 Posts 421 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 3:43:45 PM EDT The Red China will build a moon base, then a death ray gun pointing at Earth, and demand a ransom of [red][size=4]10 MILLION DOLLARS[/size=4][/red] When you convert that to Chinese currency, it is a lot of money.
	That which does not kill you will come back to finish you later.

1GUNRUNNER Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 3414 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 3:46:49 PM EDT I forgot, who owns the moon?
	"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the fuck just happened." ~ Phil Harris RIP "Differing opinions are not trolling." ~ The_Beer_Slayer

rainman Joined Nov 2000 Posts 961 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:00:54 PM EDT WE own the moon. We were there first, at least in modern times anyway. Don't our Navy/Coastguard ships stop other ships in "international" waters?

SigBlueStar Joined Apr 2002 Posts 87 EE Offline CAN	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:13:43 PM EDT [Last Edit: 5/21/2002 4:14:21 PM EDT by SigBlueStar] Quick everyone chip in and lets buy the whole moon before they get there !!! Then we can charge for rent [:d] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/11/20/lunar.land/[/url]

1GUNRUNNER Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 3417 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:19:24 PM EDT Originally Posted By rainman: WE own the moon. We were there first, at least in modern times anyway. Don't our Navy/Coastguard ships stop other ships in "international" waters? View Quote Do [i]we[/i] own Mars?
	"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the fuck just happened." ~ Phil Harris RIP "Differing opinions are not trolling." ~ The_Beer_Slayer

Citabria7GCBC Member Joined Nov 2001 Posts 411 EE Offline TX, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:21:30 PM EDT if its chinese, it will break and they will call for us to rescue them. nothing unusuall. then when we have a shuttle emergancy and land at they base on the moon. they will be P.O. at us. its the circle affect.
	[NO TEXT]

1GUNRUNNER Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 3418 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:21:47 PM EDT Originally Posted By SigBlueStar: Quick everyone chip in and lets buy the whole moon before they get there !!! View Quote According to Rainman "WE" already own it.
	"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the fuck just happened." ~ Phil Harris RIP "Differing opinions are not trolling." ~ The_Beer_Slayer

SigBlueStar Joined Apr 2002 Posts 88 EE Offline CAN	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:22:50 PM EDT I dont think so but its for sale. Lets buy it before china gets there hands on it ! [url] http://www.moonestates.com/cat_Mars.asp [/url]

Johnny_Reno Member Joined Apr 2002 Posts 263 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:33:28 PM EDT If the Chinese want to pour billions of dollars worth of their resources into that hole - great! That's just less that they can spend down here (where it counts) on things to make life difficult for us.
	and now for something completely different - The Larch...The Larch.

DScott Joined Nov 2000 Posts 1555 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/21/2002 4:42:21 PM EDT And there's no way to harden a base anyway. A thousand inch-sized ball bearings coming in from orbit would completely destroy anything they could put up. Let 'em waste the resources.

mattja Member Joined Jan 2001 Posts 3193 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 12:34:46 AM EDT I don't think it has anything to do with mining or minerals or anything mundane like that. It's PR, pure and simple. LOOK AT US, WE HAVE COME OF AGE! (and thanks for helping, WallyWorld shoppers).
	"Okay, but I'm not good at details, or the big picture. I also show up late, and drunk. I've got a good feeling about this." - Homer Simpson

OLY-M4gery Member Joined Apr 2001 Posts 1760 EE Offline WI, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 12:40:17 AM EDT Technology to get there?? They'll just do a human pyramid. They'll be bummed once they get there....... I assume the want all the cheese. PSSST it's not made out of cheese.
	<center id=center>Don't be afraid of BDU pants, they are just pants after all. Sheriff Taylor had access to rifles, why can't I? He worked in Mayberry...... Respondent Heller, A D.C. special policeman, </center id=center>

marvl Joined Oct 2001 Posts 1277 EE Offline CO, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 5:44:57 AM EDT Well, they've already taken over the U.S. -- just try to find a retail item that wasn't made in China. Next logical step is the moon.

RikWriter Member Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2534 EE Offline FL, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 5:57:52 AM EDT Originally Posted By DScott: And there's no way to harden a base anyway. View Quote Sure there is...build it underground.
	The first part of your life, you worry about what people think about you; The middle part of your life, you don't care what people think about you; The last part of your life, you realize they weren't even thinking about you at all.

DScott

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Posted: 5/22/2002 6:08:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By DScott: And there's no way to harden a base anyway.

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Sure there is...build it underground.

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It'd just take bigger rocks hurled from space, wouldn't you think? Imagine, no atmosphere, decent gravity, kinetic energy, and a basic understanding of orbital mechanics = one very large crater. Am I missing something here, physics-wise? That, or just take out the moon-based return vehicles, and let nature take it's course. POf course, a space launched cruise missile would be more spectular. I think the point is that any lunar base is extremely fragile and tenuous in it's existence.

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/22/2002 6:17:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I forgot, who owns the moon?

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Actually, as the dominant lifeform in this solar system, we can lay claim to the entire thing collectively as humanity. As of this minute, it would be pretty hard to enforce that claim due to our bloated, inefficient, misdirected space program, but no one seems to be contesting space with us {humans} at this moment. As for which [i]country[/i] owns any piece of orbital rock, it should be pointed out that greed and stupidity should be abandoned once you leave the atmosphere.

ipschoser1 Joined Jan 2001 Posts 733 EE Offline AL, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 6:26:33 AM EDT Originally Posted By AR_Rifle: Good then, we will have egg foo young and kung pao chicken when we get there. View Quote [:D][:D][:D]

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/22/2002 6:35:43 AM EDT

[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 7:24:50 AM EDT by ron97ws6]

Originally Posted By DScott: Am I missing something here, physics-wise?

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I wouldn’t say you are missing any specific physics concept, but Earth-bound humans tend to forget about the advantage of position in orbital mechanics. Form the view of energy and momentum, the moon is in a distinct advantage of being at the “top” of Earth’s gravity well. That is to say that it is easier to “drop” something from the moon to the Earth than to throw something from the bottom of Earth’s gravity well to the moon. The moon’s escape velocity is considerably smaller that the earth’s. Meaning that a moon base could menace the Earth with a simple linear accelerator and some rocks. {Read Robert A. Heinlein’s “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”} All your rocks need is to be banded with some pig iron for the magnetic fields to grab and accelerate, several small attitude jets and a cheap computer, radio receiver. All 80's technology. The explosive force is provided by the exchange of potential energy from the greater height of the moon converted to kinetic energy due to velocity. [b]BOOM![/b] [i]Very Big Boom![/i] The moon naturally uses it’s position of great potential energy to impart a huge incoming velocity on the rocks which become very hard to stop at earth’s atmosphere. The Earther’s have to resort to using nukes in near orbit to destroy the rocks. Meanwhile, every rock that they miss enters the Earth’s atmosphere with kinetic energy equal to a nuclear blast. The Earth however, has to loft [i]missiles[/i] out of their gravity well and achieve a much greater escape velocity to make terminal velocity, where then they would have a long coast to the moon. That gives the “moonies” a much longer time to plan an intercept. It’s all a game of position, and whoever takes the moon and fortifies it as a base has achieved the ultimate “high ground!” As for hardening the moon base, three things work in the moonies favor. (1) They have to dig deep anyway, to avoid deadly long-term exposure to solar radiation, so the base is already hardened. (2) Construction material is cheap! and (3) Remember, they have a looong time to plan the intercept of Earth’s relatively fragile incoming rockets.

DScott Joined Nov 2000 Posts 1561 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 6:41:21 AM EDT What about dropping things on them from moon orbit? That's more what I had in mind... How deep would you have to dig to avoid the negative effects of ambient radiation, and how deep would an orbit-launched kinetic weapon go? You'd still have surface based structures, or at least openings to underground, that would also be vulnerable. [?]

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/22/2002 6:54:52 AM EDT

[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 6:57:51 AM EDT by ron97ws6]

Originally Posted By DScott: What about dropping things on them from moon orbit? That's more what I had in mind... How deep would you have to dig to avoid the negative effects of ambient radiation, and how deep would an orbit-launched kinetic weapon go? You'd still have surface based structures, or at least openings to underground, that would also be vulnerable. [?]

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The cost of lofting a mass from the Earth is too great to use kinetic energy weapons. Think of it this way. You are throwing a rock to hit a bully on the first floor landing of a building. Sure, you have a good arm, and you can throw higher than he is standing. Maybe five feet higher. But you’ve already expended enough energy to throw your rock 20 feet while the energy it delivers is only equivalent to a drop of 5 feet!! So Earth can’t use kinetic energy weapons on the moonies due to the diminishing returns. So it stands to reason that they will have to use nukes. Now once again, look at the cost of lofting a missile out of Earth orbit. You can’t effectively harden the warhead w/o occurring a cost penalty on the payload. However, the moonies can set up phalanx guns and megawatt lasers that don’t have to fire through an attenuating atmosphere to reach your payload, and they can see it coming a long way off. They can play a laser beam on your capsule for hours to melt it to slag. Or, throw up a bunch of pebbles to hit it again using the moon's greater orbital advantage. It gets real expensive to fight the war for the Earthers. The moon can drop a lot of rocks cheap.

Bretshooter

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Posted: 5/22/2002 7:02:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DScott: What about dropping things on them from moon orbit? That's more what I had in mind... How deep would you have to dig to avoid the negative effects of ambient radiation, and how deep would an orbit-launched kinetic weapon go? You'd still have surface based structures, or at least openings to underground, that would also be vulnerable. [?]

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Sure you could do this, but you have to get to lunar orbit first, and it is a Loooong way to go to get there, which gives the Loonies (or Lunatics) plenty of time to intercept what ever you send to lunar orbit to drop your rocks, fire your missiles, etc. Linear accelerators on the moons surface could launch rocks all the way to the earth.

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/22/2002 7:07:34 AM EDT

[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 7:14:01 AM EDT by ron97ws6]

Remember that the moonies can make multi-megawatts of electrical power cheap! They can spread flimsy solar panels all over the landscape. They can operate unshielded nuclear reactors on the surface! Megawatt communications lasers can make wicked defensive weapons You can make an [b]awesome[/b] [red]pumped x-ray laser[/red] that would fire from orbit by using a thermonuclear bomb and some laser bundles with guidance computers. The laser bundles are pumped by the bomb and as they vaporize, the release an invisible coherent x-ray beam like a sword blade thousands of miles long that can melt advanced alloys to slag and fry electronics with unerring accuracy. REMEMBER! The moonies have no surface ecology to worry about! BTW: is anyone getting frightened yet? You should be getting concerned!

rainman Joined Nov 2000 Posts 969 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 7:08:56 AM EDT Earthers. Don't know if I like the sound of that. Earthians. Mmmmmmm Earthinis. Naw.

KBaker Member Joined Feb 2001 Posts 1642 EE Offline AZ, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 7:17:37 AM EDT I highly recommend everyone read Robert Heinlein's [i][u]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i][/u]. It's the story of what happens when the moon is used as a penal colony to grow hydroponic grain for use on Earth. Actually, it's about how they revolt and make war on Earth for their independence. And they throw rocks down the gravity well as weapons. Excellent story.
	Why in the hell do think they've been showing "Personal Lubricant" commercials so much latlety on television..............it's to minimize the damage when we are truly F**ked!!! - Fireguy3

FNBrowning Joined Apr 2001 Posts 117 EE Offline MO, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 7:19:12 AM EDT [Last Edit: 5/22/2002 7:26:49 AM EDT by ron97ws6] Originally Posted By rainman: Earthers. Don't know if I like the sound of that. View Quote How 'bout Flatlanders, or Downers? What other nice word will the spacefaring ppl have for the teaming masses that fight over dwindling resources at the bottom of the third planet's gravity well?

Forest Member Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2165 EE Offline MD, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 8:00:42 AM EDT Originally Posted By ron97ws6: How 'bout Flatlanders, or Downers? What other nice word will the spacefaring ppl have for the teaming masses that fight over dwindling resources at the bottom of the third planet's gravity well? View Quote Terrans (or Targets) depending on the level of hostility...
	'98 Jeep XJ Owner 6.8 > 6.5

ken_mays

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Posted: 5/22/2002 8:06:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker: I highly recommend everyone read Robert Heinlein's [i][u]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i][/u]. It's the story of what happens when the moon is used as a penal colony to grow hydroponic grain for use on Earth. Actually, it's about how they revolt and make war on Earth for their independence. And they throw rocks down the gravity well as weapons. Excellent story.

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Heinlein aside, I tend to think that any rocks they will be able to prepare for launching towards the Earth won't be large enough to do a lot of damage. By the time they ablate in the atmosphere, how much is left?

Bretshooter

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Posted: 5/22/2002 8:16:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker: I highly recommend everyone read Robert Heinlein's [i][u]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i][/u]. It's the story of what happens when the moon is used as a penal colony to grow hydroponic grain for use on Earth. Actually, it's about how they revolt and make war on Earth for their independence. And they throw rocks down the gravity well as weapons. Excellent story.

View Quote

The Kinsman Saga by Bova is also a good story on this topic.

Bretshooter

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Posted: 5/22/2002 8:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:

Originally Posted By KBaker: I highly recommend everyone read Robert Heinlein's [i][u]The Moon is a Harsh Mistress[/i][/u]. It's the story of what happens when the moon is used as a penal colony to grow hydroponic grain for use on Earth. Actually, it's about how they revolt and make war on Earth for their independence. And they throw rocks down the gravity well as weapons. Excellent story.

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Heinlein aside, I tend to think that any rocks they will be able to prepare for launching towards the Earth won't be large enough to do a lot of damage. By the time they ablate in the atmosphere, how much is left?

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I wouldn't bet money against them having enough mass to blast the crap out of us. If they loft one ton and half of it makes it thru, how much energy does 1000 lbs have at 5 miles per second? As much as an airliner?

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/22/2002 4:54:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bretshooter: If they loft one ton and half of it makes it thru, how much energy does 1000 lbs have at 5 miles per second? As much as an airliner?

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Considerably more. I don't have any exact data, but I can point to the theories surrounding project Thor. In 1964 Dr. Jerry Pournelle described a potential kinetic weapon system concept named Thor, consisting of a guided orbiting element with terminal guidance. In 1975 he published a new and more complete description of the system that could have been deployed in the mid-1980's. Thor was to consist of orbiting steel rods perhaps 20 feet long by one foot in diameter. They would contain minimal terminal guidance capability, and a means of locating themselves and their targets through GPS. They could attain velocities greater than 12,000 feet per second. If a one pound object moving at just orbital velocity ran into a stationary Earth target, the energy released in the impact will be the equivalent of exploding almost ten pounds of TNT. Each Thor element was going to weigh 20 pounds! Few elements of military power are invulnerable to bombardment by kinetic energy weapons from space. And remember, Thor was just dropping objects from orbital velocity. Incoming objects from the moon's orbit would be traveling [i]much[/i] faster.

imposter Joined Feb 2001 Posts 714 EE Offline UT, USA	Posted: 5/22/2002 5:52:49 PM EDT The moon is a road to nowhere.

jz87

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Posted: 5/22/2002 5:57:25 PM EDT

HAHAHA, where are they going to get funding from? I distinctly recall that it was only in the early 90s that the Chinese space program was partly funded from selling refrigerators and other home appliances manufactured in rocket factories. And that was for simple orbital delivery systems. They might have a shot at the moon assuming that the government doesn't get overthrown first and have the country plunge into chaos. Considering current unemployment is somewhere near 30%, if they want to maintain stability in the country, they had better spend money on social welfare before anything else. If you were to assume that 1/10 of the population are workers and 1/3 of that are unemployed, that means 1.2 billion x 1/9 = 40 million people. If they don't overhaul the financial and the economic system fast, anyone that can leave the country will.

FNBrowning

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Posted: 5/23/2002 5:22:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter: The moon is a road to nowhere.

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No flame intended here, but it's just exactly this type of attitude that keeps us Earthbound. It may be time for people to spend a little time researching info on near Earth asteroids. It only took one rock to end the age of the dinosaurs. It would only take one rock to extinguish all the higher life forms on Earth. As Robert A. Heinlein said, [i]"It's foolish to keep all our eggs in one basket."[/i] The moon is halfway to anywhere in the solar system. This solar system is awash in nearly free energy, and full of floating rocks rich in heavy minerals. Whoever takes advantage of infinite resources of the moon and space beyond will not only have the high ground, they will also direct the eventual future of mankind. Wanna leave that exclusively to the Chinese?

Renamed Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2153 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/23/2002 5:43:41 AM EDT Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I forgot, who owns the moon? View Quote By treaty? "The people of the earth" (or some similar phrase crafted by our buddies at the UN). In reality? Whoever established control there.

Renamed Joined Nov 2000 Posts 2154 EE Offline USA	Posted: 5/23/2002 5:54:34 AM EDT HAHAHA, where are they going to get funding from? View Quote In 1945, the Soviet Union was recovering from the destruction of WWII. Twelve years later, they put Sputnik into orbit. Don't underestimate the Chinese. They can use old technology (courtesy of Uncle Sam) and they won't let a few fatal accidents slow them down.

Iridium

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Posted: 5/23/2002 8:34:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ron97ws6: The moon is halfway to anywhere in the solar system. This solar system is awash in nearly free energy, and full of floating rocks rich in heavy minerals. Whoever takes advantage of infinite resources of the moon and space beyond will not only have the high ground, they will also direct the eventual future of mankind.

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So Ronald, are you writing these bits with "The High Frontier" open on your knee? Been spending too much time wired on caffeine at a Cal-Tech coffeehouse? Or are you just a Pournelle/Dyson acolyte? Or all three? [:)]

imposter

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Posted: 5/23/2002 9:08:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ron97ws6:

Originally Posted By imposter: The moon is a road to nowhere.

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No flame intended here, but it's just exactly this type of attitude that keeps us Earthbound. It may be time for people to spend a little time researching info on near Earth asteroids. It only took one rock to end the age of the dinosaurs. It would only take one rock to extinguish all the higher life forms on Earth. As Robert A. Heinlein said, [i]"It's foolish to keep all our eggs in one basket."[/i] The moon is halfway to anywhere in the solar system. This solar system is awash in nearly free energy, and full of floating rocks rich in heavy minerals. Whoever takes advantage of infinite resources of the moon and space beyond will not only have the high ground, they will also direct the eventual future of mankind. Wanna leave that exclusively to the Chinese?

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I think you misundestood my comment. I am all for stellar exploration and colonization. As you know, one of the largest problems we face with exploration is the fact that we live on a huge gravity well. It is extremely expensive to get anything into orbit. Once you get into orbit, travel is easy but slow. With no gravity, you just need to accelorate a little in the right direction and you will (eventually) get to your destination. It just makes no sense to use all of this tons of energy to get out our gravity well, just to land on another gravity well. The moon is not "halfway to anywhere in the solar system" - it is basically a road that goes back to where you came from. In fact, it is even worse because, unlike here, there are virtually no usable resources. IMHO, the moon is a "been there, done that" type thing. It was a good idea to see if anything was there, but there wasn't. We need to set our sights on other places now, and a stop-over on the moon is just a waste of resources. Let the Chinese have it, while we check out Mars.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - China Plans Lunar Base (Page 1 of 2)

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