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Posted: 3/10/2010 12:24:35 PM EDT
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7056689.ece

From Times Online
March 10, 2010
Chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth says Devil is in the Vatican
Richard Owen in Rome
Don Gabriele Amorth, an exorcist in the diocese of Rome and the president of honour of the Association of Exorcists

(Giulio Napolitan/AFP/Getty Images)

Don Gabriele Amorth is the chief exorcist at the Vatican
Image :1 of 2

Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."

He claimed that another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".

A remarkably swift Vatican investigation concluded that Corporal Tornay had shot the commander and his wife and then turned his gun on himself after being passed over for a medal. However Tornay's relatives have challenged this. There have been unconfirmed reports of a homosexual background to the tragedy and the involvement of a fourth person who was never identfied.

Father Amorth, who has just published Memoirs of an Exorcist, a series of interviews with the Vatican journalist Marco Tosatti, said that the attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II in 1981 had been the work of the Devil, as had an incident last Christmas when a mentally disturbed woman threw herself at Pope Benedict XVI at the start of Midnight Mass, pulling him to the ground.

Father José Antonio Fortea Cucurull, a Rome-based exorcist, said that Father Amorth had "gone well beyond the evidence" in claiming that Satan had infiltrated the Vatican corridors.

"Cardinals might be better or worse, but all have upright intentions and seek the glory of God," he said. Some Vatican officials were more pious than others, "but from there to affirm that some cardinals are members of satanic sects is an unacceptable distance."

Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."

He said it sometimes took six or seven of his assistants to to hold down a possessed person. Those possessed often yelled and screamed and spat out nails or pieces of glass, which he kept in a bag. "Anything can come out of their mouths – finger-length pieces of iron, but also rose petals."

He said that hoped every diocese would eventually have a resident exorcist. Under Church Canon Law any priest can perform exorcisms, but in practice they are carried out by a chosen few trained in the rites.

Father Amorth was ordained in 1954 and became an official exorcist in 1986. In the past he has suggested that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed by the Devil. He was among Vatican officials who warned that J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter novels made a "false distinction between black and white magic".

He approves, however, of the 1973 film The Exorcist, which although "exaggerated" offered a "substantially exact" picture of possession.

In 2001 he objected to the introduction of a new version of the exorcism rite, complaining that it dropped centuries-old prayers and was "a blunt sword" about which exorcists themselves had not been consulted. The Vatican said later that he and other exorcists could continue to use the old ritual.

He is the president of honour of the Association of Exorcists.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:03:00 PM EDT
70,000 cases of demonic possession, you say?





He's 85 years old?





OK, assuming he started out handling such cases at the ripe old age of 15.





70,000 cases in 70 years.      A thousand a year?  Almost 3 per day every day?





I tend to think he's exaggerating just a little bit.

CJ


Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:06:36 PM EDT
I'm somewhat disinclined to believe anything said by someone claiming to be an "exorcist".
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:08:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:10:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
70,000 cases of demonic possession, you say?


He's 85 years old?


OK, assuming he started out handling such cases at the ripe old age of 15.


70,000 cases in 70 years.      A thousand a year?  Almost 3 per day every day?


I tend to think he's exaggerating just a little bit.



CJ


Staff. Delegation. Etc.

Link Posted: 3/10/2010 1:31:10 PM EDT
The Devil is at work in every earthly church! If you can find a perfect church, DON'T JOIN IT! As soon as you do, you will corrupt it. Man is corrupt. He is not without sin. Although we are judged without sin through Jesus, we still can not live a perfect life.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 2:52:28 PM EDT
Personally, I think the devil resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC.





CJ


Link Posted: 3/10/2010 3:08:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
The Devil is at work in every earthly church! If you can find a perfect church, DON'T JOIN IT! As soon as you do, you will corrupt it. Man is corrupt. He is not without sin. Although we are judged without sin through Jesus, we still can not live a perfect life.


This is correct. As  I said in another thread, of course the devil is at work in the Church. The Catholic Church has been a thorn in his side for millenniums. He's at work everywhere.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 4:51:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
The Devil is at work in every earthly church! If you can find a perfect church, DON'T JOIN IT! As soon as you do, you will corrupt it. Man is corrupt. He is not without sin. Although we are judged without sin through Jesus, we still can not live a perfect life.


This is correct. As  I said in another thread, of course the devil is at work in the Church. The Catholic Church has been a thorn in his side for millenniums. He's at work everywhere.


1+!  The Accuser hates anyone doing God's work and attacks them even more so than regular folks.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:00:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By candyflip:
I'm somewhat disinclined to believe anything said by someone claiming to be an "exorcist".


Demonic possession and exorcism are very real things.  Fr. Thomas Euteneuer (president of Human Life International and famous for his debate with Sean Hannity) is an exorcist.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 5:06:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cattitude:
Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
The Devil is at work in every earthly church! If you can find a perfect church, DON'T JOIN IT! As soon as you do, you will corrupt it. Man is corrupt. He is not without sin. Although we are judged without sin through Jesus, we still can not live a perfect life.


This is correct. As  I said in another thread, of course the devil is at work in the Church. The Catholic Church has been a thorn in his side for millenniums. He's at work everywhere.


1+!  The Accuser hates anyone doing God's work and attacks them even more so than regular folks.


Good response, Cat! I have worked (in church service, and at 'work') with enough Catholics to know that they are doing the work of God... And the adversary aint too happy with anyone doing that...
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:31:56 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Cattitude:



Originally Posted By candyflip:

I'm somewhat disinclined to believe anything said by someone claiming to be an "exorcist".




Demonic possession and exorcism are very real things.  Fr. Thomas Euteneuer (president of Human Life International and famous for his debate with Sean Hannity) is an exorcist.


Okay.




 
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:42:14 PM EDT



Originally Posted By candyflip:





Originally Posted By Cattitude:


Originally Posted By candyflip:

I'm somewhat disinclined to believe anything said by someone claiming to be an "exorcist".




Demonic possession and exorcism are very real things.  Fr. Thomas Euteneuer (president of Human Life International and famous for his debate with Sean Hannity) is an exorcist.


Okay.


 


There are some very rational, well-educated, non-superstitious people who will agree that demonic possession and exorcism are very real things indeed.



The condition is real,  regardless of whether or not it's a mental aberration with or without actual demonic influence.



My brother could tell you a story that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.   His degree is in computer science but he was on a mission to

Argentina when he encountered an exorcism situation.    He performed the exorcism.   When he did it, the house electrical system blew up,  blowing all the lights

and sockets out of the walls,  yet the neighbors had no electrical anomalies,  and he reported the experience as "It felt like being plugged directly into God".



The house in question did not have a generator.  Nor did any of the neighbors.   Nor was there any storm or lightning activity in the area that day.  So how could

just ONE house get its electrical system hosed without damaging the others connected to the same power transformer?





I have to put some degree of belief into what my brother reported.   He's never been known to lie or make things up.



CJ





 
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:46:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 6:51:48 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Who would of guessed this a tech forum...VA-gunnut





 
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 6:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2010 6:54:35 PM EDT by Cattitude]
candyflip, I take it you are not a Christian.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 7:04:02 PM EDT
My apologies, I didn't realize this was the religion forum, I thought I was in GD.
Link Posted: 3/10/2010 10:45:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
70,000 cases of demonic possession, you say?


He's 85 years old?


OK, assuming he started out handling such cases at the ripe old age of 15.


70,000 cases in 70 years.      A thousand a year?  Almost 3 per day every day?


I tend to think he's exaggerating just a little bit.



CJ


I haven't been able to find the article I read about him, but it was worded differently.  It said he's exorcised about 70,000 demons out of people (not performed exorcisms over 70,000 people).  Keep in mind that many possessed people end up being possessed by more than one demon.  Lots more.  Each demon is an individual, and each demon must be addressed individually, thus 70,000 cases of demonic possession.
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