Chemical suits and thermal imaging.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Chemical suits and thermal imaging.

Posted: 10/18/2002 8:50:31 PM EDT

I have a sealed unused British issue chemical suit. It has a very thick charcoal lining. Will these suits block body heat effusion and thus defeat thermal-imaging equipment?

Ven

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:05:01 PM EDT

[#1]

NOPE !

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:12:54 PM EDT

[#2]

So what material do they use in Ghillie suits that block thermal?

Space blankets?

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:19:49 PM EDT

[#3]

The only way any suit could prevent you from being seen by a thermal imager is by preventing any leaking of body heat. Not possible. A good thermal imager can pick up footprints some time after you walk over a parking lot, even if you're wearing heavy boots. No matter what you're wearing your body is going to leak heat, and a temperature differential between you and the environment will show. The only 'tests' I've seen of clothing designed to defeat thermal imagers have used the cheapo commercial models. The $15,000+ models the gov't has are much, much better- I've used them to track bad guys at night, and they are really impressive.

That chemical suit will actually cause your body to produce MORE heat, which will leak out the neck, arms, and legs. You'll stand out like a flare. And no, taping the openings won't help.

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:20:31 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
So what material do they use in Ghillie suits that block thermal?

View Quote

I wasn't aware that they made ghillie suits that block thermal imaging.

How 'bout that!

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:26:21 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
So what material do they use in Ghillie suits that block thermal?

Space blankets?

View Quote

I wasn't aware that there was a material to block thermal for Ghillie suits. Hopefully someone less pogue than myself can answer you definitively.

I really just wanted to express my thoughts as to the futility of the whole thing. I don't know ggillie, but I do know FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared). I've seen how little temperature changes can be detected. I've personally pressed my hand on a wall, removed it, and watched the image of my hand print slowly fade from the display. I wouldn't want to have to sneak up on somebody with that kind of technology.

Adam

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:29:44 PM EDT

[#6]

How about that? I spend a few minutes composing a post and two people beat me to the punch. Damn I love this place. Seems any question you can think of will get an answer - and I mean an accurate answer - quicker here than anywhere else on the net.

Posted: 10/18/2002 9:30:33 PM EDT

[#7]

You mean all this time I have been buying $300 tin foil hats from R-Guns for nothing!!??

Posted: 10/19/2002 1:02:01 AM EDT

[#8]

you give off heat so you show up, anything your touching your transferring heat into, then it gives off heat so it shows up.

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:06:25 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm not absolutely sure that these Ghillie suits exist but I'm "pretty sure" that they do and that the US, British, Russian and maybe the Israeli army has them.

For arguments sake let's say they do exist. What hope does a sniper team have of surviving at all without them (assuming their objective uses thermal/infrared imaging)? Even during daytime hours, if they're operating in a climate with a temperature less than 98 degrees this technology would pinpoint their location. This equipment is so widespread that most tanks and helos have it.

Totally fictious but this all reminds of that scene in Predator where Schwarzeneger takes a mud bath to hide his heat sig.

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:12:48 PM EDT

[#10]

Drink a Ice House,drink 50 and you would not even be able to see your self[:D]

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:25:33 PM EDT

[#11]

Only way I've ever seen a TI beat is to take a poncho w/liner, soak it, freeze it, and then put it on. I really degrades your sig, but not totally, and only for about half and hour. We snuck up on some guys using that technique while playing OPFOR.

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:33:04 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Drink a Ice House,drink 50 and you would not even be able to see your self[:D]

View Quote

Yeah. Whatever. Anyway...back to the subject.
I know from working in a hospital that lead blocks X-ray radiation and so I'm guessing it will block heat, at least more effectively than very thick steel. Obviously the suits wouldn't contain lead panels, so what are they made of? Come on nuclear physicists...I need an answer.

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:40:44 PM EDT

[#13]

No expert here==but wouldn't donning under yer ghillie one of those dry suits used for cold-water diving go a long way in defeating FLIR? Unless it was very cold, you'd sweat yer cojones off, but anything designed to keep the cold out and the body heat in would AT LEAST cut down on a heat signature. If I'm wrong, please don't flame me--, I'm sensitive[;D]

Posted: 10/19/2002 8:44:03 PM EDT

[#14]

Thermal imagers aren't x-ray specs. Cover and concealment goes a long way towards defeating them. Living vegetation gives heat that can be used to mask a signature. Pile enough of it up and you can hide a Humvee.

IMHO, TI's are really good in urban areas and covering avenues of approach. A sniper could find plenty of thermal hides in the bush. In urban areas, thermal imagers can't see thru glass.

I haven't heard of any suits, but it seems like they'd have to have an internal cooling system of some kind.

Posted: 10/19/2002 9:03:53 PM EDT

[#15]

Not only does FLIR detect radiation (Heat) but it detects all variations of temps in a wide spectrum the only way to hide yourself would be to transform youself into a deer or a tree that way you would be overlooked as a non threat. As far as FLIR tracking your footsteps, I would wager to bet that it is not the heat signature from a persons footprint, but by disturbing the surrounding environment that would leave the trail and only for the short term.

Posted: 10/19/2002 9:08:48 PM EDT

[#16]

Is this what y'all are thinking of:
[url]http://www.ghillie.com/thermal.htm[/url]

-Gloftoe

Posted: 10/19/2002 9:11:45 PM EDT

[#17]

[url]http://www.ghillie.com/thermal.htm[/url]

[img]http://www.ghillie.com/images/4th.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.ghillie.com/images/7th.jpg[/img]

From the website: "We had the man stand up and remove his hood to get a good idea of what a human looks like through thermal imaging equipment. He is holding the hood in his left hand, which is why he appears to have only one hand. Note the two white spots on the ground below the hood, where he was resting his elbows while he stretched out."

Posted: 10/19/2002 9:15:39 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Is this what y'all are thinking of:
[url]http://www.ghillie.com/thermal.htm[/url]

-Gloftoe

View Quote

Pretty impressive - but stll the subject was stationary - would love to see moving video to see if and where heat sigs are given.

I still want one though.

Posted: 10/19/2002 9:44:13 PM EDT

[#19]

damn you guys are fast I was just getting ready to put up those photos from CCinc
It also says that it just "happens" to work because of the way the suit is made. could it be because of the massive amount of thick burlap on those suits? similar to covering yourself in thick brush?
those are convincing pics but I would still say that you might still show up as a "black hole" because even plant matter gives off some heat i belive and there really no telling how good that IR imager is. Its like using GEN 1 night vision hell you cant make out much beyond 10 ft

Posted: 10/19/2002 10:09:58 PM EDT

[#20]

the Imagers cant see thu water...so if you made a 'water poncho' of some kind.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Chemical suits and thermal imaging.

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