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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/13/2002 9:42:15 PM EDT
I guess I ruffled some feathers of the webmaster. [url]http://boards.hkpro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=004737[/url] BrenLover
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 9:50:11 PM EDT
The HKPro site reinforces why I dont own an HK...
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:10:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:13:54 PM EDT
You spelled it out best in your last post over there. The administrator is the final word on the website--my way or the highway. If he does not wish people to sell "high" cap USP .45 mags, and enforces the rule equally, more power to him. He spells it out clearly in the rules, so most people can't miss it. I tend to side with you--if it ain't marked, it is legal. One person over there related that Green Top Sporting Goods in Ashland, VA specifically remembers selling the HK .45 before Sept. 1994. I would trust the guys there at GT before I would trust an official HK anouncement. I do know that a large number of them can be found in the areas surrounding military bases--as someone pointed out, they are common in Europe, and the USGI's that head over there and buy a USP .45 with a couple of high cap. mags are supposed to leave the High Caps over there when they return. I would imagine that word has gotten around that if you buy a bunch of the .45 mags for $40 here, you can double your money back in the US. AFARR
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:37:12 PM EDT
Brouha, did I post or ask for those "bad" mags? Nope, so I guess I did follow the rules huh? I am over it, I asked the question, got the answer and presented my argument and I'm done. Damn...[flame]
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 11:45:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:30:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andrew: The HKPro site reinforces why I dont own an HK...
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Well then, you don't know what you are missing out on. Don't get me wrong, at times I have had my problems with some of the attitudes on HKPro, but I love the 'HK only' guidelines of the board because it weeds out all the BS (I can get my BS at AR15.com[;)]). I don't understand the reasoning behind stirring up the pot over the HK unmarked mag issue. It's the rules, so I follow it in respect to Tom. If someone wants to buy unmarked HK hicaps, so be it. I have no problem with that, as I feel if they are unmarked, then it's OK. I don't want to be the guy that ever has to test that theory in court, but what's the chance of that? As far as how the mags got here, I believe many of them have either beem brought into the country by folks staying/visiting oversees(probably a fair share by military types), or shipped here by european 'dealers.' Hell, there used to be a German fellow on the auction sites selling all types of unmarked postban HK mags to US buyers. The 12 round SOCOM mags possibly are prebans, but if you look around, you can find all sorts of unmarked HK mags that were DEFINITELY not made before 1994. For example 18rd 9mm Expert mags, 16 rd .40 Expert mags even G36 mags if you can find a use for them. These are unmarked, but again, I wouldn't want to be the poor sucker that has to test the law in court...
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 1:09:46 AM EDT
wow, that forum was too weird for me, like being in a paralell (sp) universe!! eeek!
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:12:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andrew: The HKPro site reinforces why I dont own an HK...
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Well I own several HK weapons, but the HKpro site is a different story, I only go there for a good laugh, the site provides good information, but you can get the same info here and you dont have to deal with HKpro, he makes DonR look mild![:D]
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:40:25 AM EDT
andrew's post made perfect sense. He is taking a political stance on HK's policies towards a law that is anti-people, as in "We the People." As for the rules of the HK forum, I don't see that they encroach on any liberties and you abide by them as a matter of courtesy.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 6:46:20 AM EDT
"I willingly will assist them in the prosecution of any who break the law, however they personally interpret it." ....HKPro Man, dont give that guy the impression that your doing anything illegal. He'll probably get the ATF on you.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 6:48:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2002 6:55:59 AM EDT by Sauron]
" ATF monitors this site, as they should. Black guns are offered for sale here." --HKPRO
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 6:57:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sauron: " ATF monitors this site, as they should. Black guns are offered for sale here." --HKPRO
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Yeah, I hate to say it, but my first reaction is 'fuck him.'. But, he's a cop, and as we've seen so many times, there are a number of them that take that sort of position. QS
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Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:33:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2002 8:09:32 AM EDT by SorryOciffer]
HKocher, I wasn't there to stir the pot, I had a question that arose during my reading "board policy", asked about it then when I had the answer presented my [argue], and dropped it with my last post. I realize its his site and did not violate any rules, just questioned the reasoning. I guess his personality and love of HKs fit because he seems to rule like a little Hitler. I even seem to even have lost a "law abiding" thread over there after only a couple hours. Wonder why? [BD] Watch out! They talk about BLACK GUNS! BrenLover
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:58:12 AM EDT
After seeing the mod's feeling about helping in the prosecution of unclear laws, I'm going to have to hop over there and bail out. It's ok though, the site is as interesting as watching paint dry.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 8:15:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andrew: The HKPro site reinforces why I dont own an HK...
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Maybe he means because (according to HKPro) H&K is NOT on the side of law-abiding citizens... Scott
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 8:20:48 AM EDT
One of their board members quoting HKPro on the main page of their forum: "HK's official stance on 45 preban mags..." (i forget the exact name, im too lazy to look at the moment). HK is trying to tell us that they didnt make any preban mags for the 45 or socom. the SOCOM i can sorta agree with, but I and a lot of other here think its horsesh**. Obviously, H&K is taking the stand that even IF THEY DID make mags pre-9/94, they are not going to say they are pre-ban... Scott
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:01:28 AM EDT
Since I'm sure he won't let this stand for long, here's what I posted.
" ATF monitors this site, as they should. Black guns are offered for sale here." --HKPRO "I willingly will assist them in the prosecution of any who break the law, however they personally interpret it." ....HKPRO
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Okay. After a little thinking and cooling-off, here's my .02. The above statements are consistent with a fellow who'd use the Nuremberg Defense to justify any action taken under color of law. Despite what he may profess to believe, these statements reveal more about his character than his expressed beliefs. What he's saying is that guns are okay, unless or until a politician or bureaucrat decides that they're bad... and at that point, HKPRO is going to give them addresses and phone numbers of people he knows own[I]mala prohibita[/I] items. He does this because he's a good cop, sworn to protect and carry out ukases and edicts as issued by Der Kommissar. And to defend the Constitution, at least the parts Der Kommissar has decided are still valid. I'm going to say it. Tom, you're a hypocrite. And, you're a worse enemy of the 2nd Amendment than Sarah Brady...at least she's honest about her elitist feelings and aims. Folks, guys like this, those who will throw one passenger from the sleigh to appease the wolves, will be our ultimate downfall. Please delete my account immediately. QuietShooter
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:11:20 AM EDT
Quiet, that was too good. Very well written. I am letting them know to delete mine as well. It's not worth it. I think one of our members said it well when they wrote that HKpro is a good source of info, but nothing that cant be found here. They were also right in saying the site is as interesting as watching paint dry. The place is no fun, no humor or joking around etc, business only. Kinda like the stereotypical German demeanor you see made fun of. BrenLover
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:36:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2002 9:36:49 AM EDT by schapman43]
Here is the "Please delete my account" thread that I started there [url]http://boards.hkpro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=002280[/url]
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:42:54 AM EDT
Y'all make me want to sign up, jsut so I can quit the site "gracefully"... Scott P.S. It wouldn't be graceful, but WOULD leave an impression...
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 10:27:04 AM EDT
Someone who has an active account should ask him that if the weapons we own were to be banned and turned in if he would turn over all the info and such on his members, after all he would just be doing his job and preventing illegal activity. BrenLover
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 11:45:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sauron: " ATF monitors this site, as they should. Black guns are offered for sale here." --HKPRO
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Uhhh, and you fellas don't think that BATF monitors AR15.com??? Wake up, they're probably reading this thread right now. Tom has no say in their activities, he didn't invited them over, and they wouldn't leave if he asked them too. If you guys think Tom is anti gun or anti black rifle, you are idiots. First of all he is LE, second, do you honestly believe that the owners of other gun sites would not be forced to act against you if the ATF came calling? If you're stupid enough to post about illegal activities on the net, you desire what you get. As for Tom ruling like a Nazi, wrong! Tom posed the question regarding the content of the board. The responses were overwhelmingly (90%+) supporting "ALL HK" content ONLY. I hate whiney goodbyes, so don't leave mad, just leave...
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:24:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By Sauron: " ATF monitors this site, as they should. Black guns are offered for sale here." --HKPRO
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Uhhh, and you fellas don't think that BATF monitors AR15.com??? Wake up, they're probably reading this thread right now. Tom has no say in their activities, he didn't invited them over, and they wouldn't leave if he asked them too. If you guys think Tom is anti gun or anti black rifle, you are idiots. First of all he is LE, second, do you honestly believe that the owners of other gun sites would not be forced to act against you if the ATF came calling? If you're stupid enough to post about illegal activities on the net, you desire what you get. As for Tom ruling like a Nazi, wrong! Tom posed the question regarding the content of the board. The responses were overwhelmingly (90%+) supporting "ALL HK" content ONLY. I hate whiney goodbyes, so don't leave mad, just leave...
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You're missing the point, whether on purpose or not. The point is, I have no use for someone who would allow and encourage prosecution of people for [i]mala prohibita[/i] laws that in my opinion are 'repugnant to the Constitution'. Just so I, and everyone else who reads this is clear on this, HKocher, are you saying that should the day come that AR15s are declared illegal contraband, you not only will turn yours in, but report anyone else who fails to do so? Gee, ve are gut Chermans. QS
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 12:26:00 PM EDT
Hkocker, of course we know they watch us too, I didn't now that was relevant to the discussion at hand though as a deal between two or more individuals is between them. If two people decide to rob a bank while on the phone do we criminal charges again AT&T because they allowed the conversation? How is posting about UN-MARKED mags illegal? His standing on the the mags has no more a foothold than mine. I did not post "anyone have some post-ban mags I can buy for my personal use?" If a post was made by someone to buy or sell DIASs I would nix the post as well but not allowing a post about un-marked and therefor presumeably/logically legal mags is silly. I dont give a Effing $hit about the site being HK only, that's fine and was again NEVER THE POINT OF CONTENTION. However, dont agree with him or rock the boat and other non-relevant (still HK related) posts are nixed. Damn! He sure showed me huh! So he's an LE, isn't that spiffy, he is no more important than you or I, he just has a harder job is all. LEOs deserve respect for the tough and thankless job they have, but they are not gods. There was no "whiney" goodbye, just a delete my account please. And I am not mad really, just astounded/amused by their attitude and apparent willingness to turn in suspected "violators" to the secret police/ATF. Quick! I think there was a violation in the EE, Call out the dogs![stick] BrenLover
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