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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:24:50 PM EST
...if you have one. Do you think the Chechen rebels are mainly "Freedom Fighters" trying to resist Russian occupation and protect their own soveriegnty or are they mainly "Radical Muslim Terrorists" hellbent on spreading instability and terrorism throughout the region? . . . Background on Chechnya: 1830s: Czar Nicholas I invades Caucuses, meets fierce resistance. 1859: Russia conquers, incorporates Caucuses. 1917: Russian Revolution, Dagestan (including Chechnya) declares its independence. 1923: Bolshevik troops occupy Dagestan, divide region, creating Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. 1944: Stalin deports thousands of Chechens to Siberia and Kazakhstan, on suspicion of collaborating with Germany. 1957: Chechen-Ingush republic reestablished. Chechens return home. 1991: Soviet Union collapses, 14 regions become independent nations. Dzhokhar Dudayev elected president of Chechnya. Dudayev declares Chechnya independent. Russian President Boris Yeltsin refuses to recognize Chechen independence, sends troops. Confronted by armed Chechens, troops withdraw. 1994: Chechnya continues to assert its independence. Paramilitary bands accused of widespread kidnapping for ransom. Russia invades Chechnya; bloody war ensues. 1995: 10,000 Russian troops occupy Grozny. Dudayev killed by Russian rocket. Total Russian force numbers 45,000. Chechens takes hostages. 1996: Chechens launch major counteroffensive, 5,000 troops invade Grozny. Unwilling to use maximum force and destroy Grozny to defeat rebels, Russians agree to ceasefire. Yeltsin orders troops withdrawn from Chechnya. Russian military humiliated. 70,000 casualties on all sides. 1997: Chechnya won't accept Moscow's authority. Aslan Maskhadov elected Chechen president. Name of capital changed from the Russian Grozny, to the Chechen Djohar. Lawlessness in Chechnya continues. 1999: Terrorist bombs explode in Moscow and other Russian cities. Russian authorities blame Chechen paramilitary commanders. Chechen insurgents enter neighboring Russian territory of Dagestan to help Islamic fundamentalists seeking to create separate nation. Russian troops recapture breakaway areas of Dagestan. Yeltsin sends nearly 100,000 Russian troops into Chechnya. Russians occupy much of Chechnya, pulverize Grozny, driving rebels into hills. 250,000 refugees. 2000: Despite Russian claims of imminent victory, war continues. Russians are unable to defeat rebels in mountainous areas. United Nations officials call for investigations of alleged human rights abuses by Russian troops and by Chechen rebels. New Russian President Vladimir Putin agrees to human rights investigation, continues war. 2001: Following the attacks on the World Trade Center, the White House urges separatist rebel leaders in Russia's Chechnya province to cut ties with terrorist groups. 2002: Informal peace talks. In August, Chechen rebels shoot down a Russian military helicopter, killing more than 100. October, Chechen rebels hold 800 Russian citizens hostage in Moscow theater and are killed in Russian military rescue/raid. December, Chechen suicide bombers ram two truck-bombs into Gov't buildings in Chechen capitol of Grozny killing at least 40.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 8:36:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 8:51:02 PM EST by FireControlman]
Don't forget: 2002 Afghanistan - Chechen combatants engage US troops.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 8:41:54 PM EST
A Russian friend has explained to me that there are two factions of Russian organized crime. The Bratva are akin to the Italian Cosa Nostra... polished, big money guys who make their money from fraud, financial scams, adoption/marriage scams, import/export scams, racketeering, etc... Then you have the Chechyns, who are the thug, street gang drug dealers who control the majority of the drug trade in the major metros. It's the war on drugs Peristroika style.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 8:51:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: It's the war on drugs Peristroika style.
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A "War On Drugs"? But I thought it was a "All About Oil"? [;)] IIRC, Chechnya has a rich untapped oil reserve that Russia didn't want to give up when the USSR dissolved.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:01:51 PM EST
2002 Chechens attackers take control of Russian theater and 700+ hostages. [url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/25/moscow.siege/[/url] we know what happens next...
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:33:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:44:05 PM EST
[url]http://www.sftt.org/dw07172002.html#8[/url]
The Chechen Al Qaeda, which are estimated to have between 2,000 and 5,000 members in the Kowst Gardez region at any given time, are not only efficient and well-organized but are also exceedingly brutal. They travel and hold up in much larger groups than the standard al Qaeda [units]. One of their preferred fighting tactics is to leave a 2-4 man group in a very precarious position (bait-and-run). When these men are able to draw fire from U.S. forces they run, drawing the U.S. soldiers into a well-organized Chechen ambush. Under fire, the Chechen fighters are calm and have been heard singing songs professing faith in Allah and praise of Allah. The Chechen al Qaeda are the force that caught Navy SEAL Neil Roberts earlier this spring and killed U.S. Army Rangers who responded to the incident. Along with shooting Roberts in the hands and feet and cutting off his ears, they also mutilated [deleted] before killing him execution-style. One source said that during interrogations of [captured] Chechen fighters, they expressed disdain for anyone not Muslim. The source said, "We are the infidel, the more brutal they are to us, the greater their reward from Allah. Outside of Allah, nothing is sacred to them."
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Thats what the peace loving Chechens do when they aren't slicing the throats of captured russian soldiers and chopping the heads off of civilian russian construction workers with axes.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:03:08 PM EST
Scott's Quick & Dirty Guide to Identifying Soldiers/Terrorists: Attack a military base=Soldier Take civilian hostages in a theatre=Terrorist Scott
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:07:26 PM EST
Religious freaks are scary. Islamic religious freaks are scarier. Chechen islamic religious freaks should be shot on sight and maybe drawn between two army trucks...
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:14:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Diesel: Thats what the peace loving Chechens do when they aren't slicing the throats of captured russian soldiers and chopping the heads off of civilian russian construction workers with axes.
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But it's okay for the Russians to continue to occupy Chechnya, rape Chechen women, kidnap Chechen men over a certain age, loot and steal en masse (because their corrupt government won't pay or feed them), bomb entire cities (intentionally targeting civilians), and cut the throats of Chechens? As bad as the Israelis are in the Occupied Palestinian Territories they don't hold hold a candle to the brutality and barbarism of the Russians.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:25:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By Diesel: Thats what the peace loving Chechens do when they aren't slicing the throats of captured russian soldiers and chopping the heads off of civilian russian construction workers with axes.
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But it's okay for the Russians to continue to occupy Chechnya, rape Chechen women, kidnap Chechen men over a certain age, loot and steal en masse (because their corrupt government won't pay or feed them), bomb entire cities (intentionally targeting civilians), and cut the throats of Chechens? As bad as the Israelis are in the Occupied Palestinian Territories they don't hold hold a candle to the brutality and barbarism of the Russians.
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The crap goes both ways--but the chechens will always be filthy animals. At least the russians can take a shower and clean up and become members decent society.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:01:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon: But it's okay for the Russians to continue to occupy Chechnya, rape Chechen women, kidnap Chechen men over a certain age, loot and steal en masse (because their corrupt government won't pay or feed them), bomb entire cities (intentionally targeting civilians), and cut the throats of Chechens? As bad as the Israelis are in the Occupied Palestinian Territories they don't hold hold a candle to the brutality and barbarism of the Russians.
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I'm not excusing any of Russia crimes against Chechen civilians, and they are plentiful as you said. The problem with the whole 'freedom fighting' chechens is that most of them aren't fighting for freedom they are fighting a holy war against the infidels. Thats where the Arab mercenaries and terrorists like Khattab come in, (who are responsible for throat slashing videos and such). It sucks that chechen civilians are killed or sent to refugee camps but I can't have a lot of sympathy until they expel the terrorists from their lands. I'm sure the Russians and would stop the brutal behavior and leave if there was no one to fight. But the terrorists want the war, they had their free chechen state when Russia pulled out after the first war. So what did they do? Invaded their neighbors and bombed apt buildings. Its the same with the Palistians, they could have had their land peacefully long ago but every chance of middle east peace talks Hamas blows something up because without war they have no reason to exist. And the civilians continue to suffer in the west bank because of their actions just like the civilians in Chechnya continue to suffer because of the "rebels" actions.
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