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Posted: 6/14/2001 9:00:33 PM EST
First off, I know this has probably been discussed before, but I just figured I'd share my thoughts ... Since I introduced my wife to the shooting sports, she has hi-jacked my Beretta 92FS. She loves shooting it, and won't share it with me... This was a good reason to add another gun to the collection... SO...Tuesday evening I picked up a Charles Daly 1911 .45 auto... Gun was brand new and in a box, with two 8-round mags. I got home and wanted to cycle the action with both types of ammo I'd bought, to be sure they'd feed ok. The CCI Blazer 230gr ball ammo fed just fine, cycling by hand.... The 185 gr hollow points were another story...Brand was Magsafe or something like that (I forget) If I only put 4-5 rounds in the mag, they would feed ok, but with a full mag (6,7,or 8) the first round would nosedive into the feed ramp and jam... The following morning, I took the gun back to my dealer and showed him the problem... He just figured it was a mag problem and gave me a few extra mags to try and said the gun probably just needed to be broken in. I took the gun over to his indoor shooting range and filled 3 mags with the CCI Blazer ammo. I sent a target out about 25 feet and fired all 21 rounds (3 mags w/7 rounds) I was impressed with the accuracy, but was VERY disappointed when I saw the parts that fell off the gun afterwards. Both halves of the ambi-safety lever and the detent/spring were laying on the shooting bench and floor. I took the gun back to the counter and said I'd like a different gun... My dealer said he's never had a problem with this brand of 1911 but wanted to keep me happy and said no problem, what else would you like instead ? I told him how happy I was with my Beretta 92FS 9mm and I might be interested in the .40 cal version if he had any... He went into the "back room" and came out with a brand new looking Beretta 96FS, in a Beretta carry box, with 2 mags and the owners manual. I asked how much difference in price if I swapped the .45 ??? He said $100,and I'll take the rest of the unused .45 ammo (1.5 boxes) and I'll give you a box of Federal .40 cal JHP's... I said SOLD!!! I also bought 2 boxes of cheap target ammo to try at his indoor range... The Beretta shoots 100%... NO jams and... NO parts falling off!!! I thought MOST gun mfg's test fired their guns BEFORE they left the factory... This gun could not have been test fired...It fell apart almost immediately...My old Llamma .45 was a piece of crap, but at least it didn't fall apart on me... The machine work and quality actually reminded me a bit of that old Llamma. My dealer couldn't believe it just fell apart, 'cause he had a hell of a time getting it put back together... I still like the looks and feel of the 1911 style .45's, and I will probably try another one... Just NOT a Charles Daly, and not very soon...Unless the wife takes my .40 from me too...[:)] Any recommendations for a QUALITY 1911 thats under $500 bucks ???
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:03:08 PM EST
It's your mags. CD sells those crap mecgar mags with their 45s and they suck. Bought my dad a cd for Christmas last year. Bought him three Chip McCormick Shooting Stars and one Chip McC Power Mag and the gun shoots as good as any 1911 I have come across. dump the shit mags and get some good ones, CDs are good pistols. ron
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:05:01 PM EST
You should be able to find a Colt 1991A or a base springfield for around $500. Unless you're in California of course.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:08:48 PM EST
Quality 1911's under $500 ..... hmmmmmmm .... My advice is to give up on a new gun and look for a good deal on a used 1911. I'd suggest Kimber , ParaOrdnance , Springfield Armory , and of course Colt. These are high quality 1911's that people usually get tired of and trade in on something else LONG before their " worn out ". Just my opinion -- Rooster
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:12:53 PM EST
I 'kinda figured the mags were the feeding trouble, but I don't understand why the gun came apart... Must have missed the QC inspection... How do I tell the difference from the mecgar mags and the McCormick mags??? I remember my dealer telling me the mags I had were Chip McCormick's... It seemed like the follower wasnt pushing the front of the cartridge up enough. When the mag was full, I could see a 1/4" space under the front of the first round, leaving room for it to nosedive when the slide tried to push it from the mag... Maybe the gun falling apart was a fluke, but I wasn't willing to take a chance on that gun anymore...
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:22:59 PM EST
I picked up a CD at a gun show.Took it to the range and ran 50 rounds thru it. At 25yds. it hit where I pointed. No complaints and for the money I paid it was a hell of a deal. PS of course no parts fell off.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:37:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE: I picked up a CD at a gun show.Took it to the range and ran 50 rounds thru it. At 25yds. it hit where I pointed. No complaints and for the money I paid it was a hell of a deal. PS of course no parts fell off.
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I definately can't bitch about the price, being a little over $300 bucks, nor do I have complaints about the accuracy. I was actually quite surprised with the good accuracy. Maybe I'll give another CD a try, if I continue to see positive replies to my topic... I'm 'kinda interested in info on the different mags available for these guns... I must say, my first impression of the mags were....CHEAP. Maybe they WERE mecgar junk mags... If I see a CD feed 7 or 8, 185gr FMJ's reliably, and shoot 100 rounds without coming apart, I'll definately consider another... I Should'a asked here first before my purchase... (how many times has that been said?)
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:41:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2001 9:41:46 PM EST by GrowingGrass]
I just bought a Daly from another AR15.comer- It wears out BBL bushings ENTIRELY too soon... The gun out of the box was overall junk... We both understood that when I bought it, and the price reflected this. I intend to drop in all McCormick internals, and try to make it run. But Yeah. There is a reason Dalys are so cheap. 100% cast Parts, including the extractor. At the [B]VERY MINIMUM[/B] the extractor, safety, slide lock, and hammer should be replaced with a machined one right out of the box- And the firing pin too if you ask me.Really, IMO, they are an allright project gun- But DEFINITLEY not anythig to take too seriously.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:50:29 PM EST
I didn't realize there were so many cast parts... I figured there HAD to be a reason why they were so cheap... My dealer has a ton of 1911's. Maybe I'll just look at another brand and inspect it a little closer...
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:55:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By dragracerart: I didn't realize there were so many cast parts...
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The [B]whole gun[/B] is cast, including the critical tensioned parts, like the extractor, which is the LAST part in the world you want to be cast. If you have ver seen photo's of any of the castings, you would see the truly poor quality. The one I am getting will be used for IPSC Limited use, but only after I pretty much rip off everything "Daly" and replace it with McCormick or Wilson-
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:55:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 9:59:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
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[B]MecGar makes the best quality mags.[/B] Yep [B]The Beretta mags are all made by MecGar.[/B] Yep [B]USA Mags are the junk ones.[/B] Yep [B]Also, most find Wilson-Rogers 1911 mags to be better than Chip Mc Shooting Stars.[/B] Argueable, but I happen to agree, so Yep. [B]Correct me if I'm wrong.[/B] Nope
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:09:58 PM EST
OK... Now I'm confused... Who makes the mags that come with the CD guns from the factory ??? Also, ALL my Beretta mags have thick aluminum floorplates, and say: PB CAL 9 PARA MADE IN U.S.A. I was told these were police and military mags, they seem to work the best in my guns... I've tried other "no-name" mags in the 92FS and 96FS and had problems...
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:11:00 PM EST
Yup, I had a POS CD for about 2 months until I traded it for another POS--an EAA Witness PS to be specific. The bolt face on the CD got pitted and worn out after only a couple hundred rounds, a small chunk actually came off down near the slide! It never quite fed right, either. Just a junky 1911 clone. Glad I'm rid of it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:27:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By dragracerart: OK... Now I'm confused... Who makes the mags that come with the CD guns from the factory ???
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I don't really know, but the Daly 1911 is a rare case of any jamming problems being more the gun then the mag. Any given part on a Daly has the potential to be so horribly out of spec that if the gun isn't running right, the mag is the least og your worries.
Also, ALL my Beretta mags have thick aluminum floorplates, and say: PB CAL 9 PARA MADE IN U.S.A. I was told these were police and military mags, they seem to work the best in my guns... I've tried other "no-name" mags in the 92FS and 96FS and had problems...
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Pietro Bereta, Caliber 9MM Parabelum Factory Mags--Good stuff. Don't use any other.
Link Posted: 6/14/2001 10:36:14 PM EST
mec-gar mags junk ? BULLSHIT, try telling that to SIG Sauer, there factory mags are mec-gars. maybe you are confusing mec-gar and pro-mag or USA mag, those are junky. i doubt the mags that come with charles daly 1911s are mec-gar, but its possible, i also HIGHLY doubt it was a mag problem, but it could be. the gun is made in the PHILLIPINES, any questions ? ive looked over a few CHEAP Chuck 1911s and the fit is horrible on those guns, the mainspring housing looks to be hammered into the gun and doesnt fit in the mainspring rails. just stay away from Cheap Chuck Daly, if you want another Better 1911, get a Colt 1991 for around $500, it looks like the original 1911 design, and are great starter 1911s. (which will be my next 1911) what i did was buy a stripped caspian frame, went to a gun show and bought a colt slide, barrel and internal parts for cheap (used but good parts), took it to a gun smith for final assembly and the addition of a few of there own parts. frame cost $189, colt slide $100, colt barrel and internal parts under $200, final smithing, action job and other parts $200 = around $600 for a more or less custom built gun thats on par or better than a production kimber or springfield, and NO cheap metal molded (MIM) parts. dragraceart --since your new to 1911s, take a look at [url]www.1911forum.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 5:25:54 AM EST
Mec-Gars are excellent mags. Shooting Stars are POS. I have had two baseplates pop off during reloads and weak springs causing the last round to fail to feed. See if you have find a used Norinco. It is all forged and I have two, one was $180, I had to go up to $215 for the second one.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 5:45:54 AM EST
Nothing wrong with Auto-Ordnance, either. It is not uncommon for a 1911 to be a little cranky about feeding anything other than ball. .45 ball is a good manstopper as is, I wouldn't worry about hollow points. What are you doing with a .40 Short & Weak?
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 5:46:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2001 5:46:41 AM EST by Hellraiser]
Originally Posted By Ronnie Stephens: It's your mags. CD sells those crap mecgar mags with their 45s and they suck. Bought my dad a cd for Christmas last year. Bought him three Chip McCormick Shooting Stars and one Chip McC Power Mag and the gun shoots as good as any 1911 I have come across. dump the shit mags and get some good ones, CDs are good pistols. ron
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Uh-huh, and just ignore the parts that are falling off the gun? Just unneccessary spare parts I guess. Before I knew better, I tried one of these too and had the same problem. In less than 200 rounds, the ambi safety had come apart and the slide stop lever broke. Great gun. Even after it was "fixed" it continued to have problems and I would never trust it in anyway. Best thing I ever did was trade it in on a Springfield TRP. I no longer buy crap guns of any kind. Life is too short to have a CD 1911. By the way, Mecgar makes very good mags, and make factory mags for many great guns like Sig. Your advice is way off. CD=crap, Mecgar=good.
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 5:47:38 AM EST
for the money my CD was great with ball ammo not so much with hollow points wasnt a mag problem the ramp had a catch after a friend reworkedit and throated it out no problem ...decent economic gun. just my .02
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 6:11:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2001 6:11:07 AM EST by ctrmass]
It was apparent to me, just from handling the Charles Daly, that it was a total POS. If I was looking for a defense handgun for under $500.00, I'd probibally go for one of the millennium Taurus's,(around $290.00-320.00) or get the 1927 Colt "systema" Argentine 45,($299.00 in CDNN, this is NOT the Ballester molina) and have a reliability job dont on it. Just my .02 Eric
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 9:32:11 AM EST
I posted this very question a few months ago and was talked out of the CD and into a Glock by the Glock guys. Best decision I ever made. Thanks Glock guys!
Link Posted: 6/15/2001 9:43:04 PM EST
Nuff said about CD... I WON'T buy another... My dealer has Springfields, Colts, Kimbers, and a couple names I can't remember... Maybe I'll shop around a little... I still want a 1911 .45, just don't know who's is the most reliable... I like the Para Ordnance 14.45 LDA, but the grip seems a bit FAT... I like the feel of the single stack. My buddy has one and loves it. I'll have to ask him to let me shoot it next time we're at the range... paspecops... The reason I went with the .40 Beretta, is because I already have the 9MM (you held it,remember?) Charlene likes the 9MM and won't give it up... I took her down to the range on Sat right after you guys left... It was her 1st time, and she took to it like a fish to water...Took her out again Sunday and she ate up several boxes of 9MM ammo. I gave her the 92FS and got the 96FS for myself...(I like the Beretta's alot myself) I Figured the .40 would have a little more ooomph.(it does)
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