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Posted: 9/28/2004 5:49:42 AM EST
I got to thinking this morning on my drive to school about charity. What are your thoughts on it?

I occasionally give a little something to the Salvation Army pots at Christmas, ALWAYS give something to the Vets on Remembrance Day (Poppies), and may occasionally throw something to a kid canvassing the neighborhood selling for Band, Glee Club, Girl Scouts, whatever.

What I DON'T like is the "forced" charity that you encounter in the workplace. The parent who browbeats you into coughing up for their kid, or the United Way, etc.

This may sound selfish, but I feel like my damn taxes are already MAKING me be charitable to illegal aliens, muslims, foreign nations, welfare crack hos, etc. As well as subsidizing the education of OTHER people's kids and single mommies lifestyles through Earned Income Tax Credits.

So I don't necessarily feel very charitable after getting ass-raped by .gov on taxes.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:53:41 AM EST
I tithe, and also give regularly to the Salvation Army-- they are one of the best charities out there in terms of % actually passed on to those in need.

My wife and I give a lot, not because we have a lot to give, but because there are a lot of less fortunate people out there. The fact that in a lot of cases they get a Christian message with their handout is icing on the cake.

We give to other charities on a less-regular basis as well.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:56:14 AM EST
I guess I am pretty bitter and cynical - there is SO much public (i.e. taxpayer funded) charity out there that I can't remember the last time anyone in our country died of starvation (other than that administered to them by an evil parent) or frozen to death out in the cold. It seems like most people who receive charity are getting it due to an institutionalized system that KEEPS them where they are, expecting it, instead of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and making a change. You know, the old "Give a fish vs. teaching to fish" analogy.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:56:20 AM EST
I think charity and fundraising are 2 very different things. Screw band candy, et c., unless you like the candy or the seller. Jesus said that we are to give freely to those who ask of us, seeking nothing in return, and I try to do that. However, I think he was talking about individuals. I am ambivalent (actually hostile) to the United Way - partly because the organization stinks and partly because it's delegating your charitable responsibility. Stuff like the March of Dimes or the American Cancer Society doesn't strike me as charity either, because you're trying to solve problems that bother you or to change the world in a way you find congenial - they are more like the NRA, which certainly isn't a charity.

Once you get beyond giving to people in need directly or through your church (or whatever) I don't think it's charity, but rather social investment, and I don't think there's a religious or ethical obligation to do it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:59:41 AM EST
The Salvation Army rocks. The United Way can blow me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:08:21 AM EST
Do unto others...

I don't just give hand outs but if some kid is selling candy bars for whatever,
or the salvation army at christmas.

Chances are I have it, and there are alot of people out there who don't.
I would hope that if the shoes were on the other foot, than someone would want to help me.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:08:36 AM EST
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine."
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:13:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By RealFastV6:
The Salvation Army rocks. The United Way can blow me.



+1 I always try to donate to the Salvation Army Christmas time. Also the USMC Toys for Tots also kicks ass. The United Way is a bunch of goons that remind me of the maffia.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:19:30 AM EST
I'll give if the person collecting is participating, like a run or a walk. At Christmas, no adults in my family get presents. Instead, I give the equivalent value in new clothes to the Homless Vets shelter.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:19:37 AM EST
I just gave away a bunch of stuff in the team members forum.

Otherwise I find this applies
"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another
man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

YMMV
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:22:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 6:17:29 PM EST by mkgunz]
I've never had someone "force" me into giving. I must be a son of a beech because I have no problem looking a Cub Scout in the eyes and saying no. The sad thing is that alot of charities are a scam. The red Cross "lost" something like $27 million after 9/11. It was all given right after 9/11 when everyone had tears in their eyes and a patriotic heart. I give to local charities like Hunters for the Hungry. You can either donate money or drop of a deer you shot to a local butcher who processes it and sends it to local shelters. What ever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside I guess.

ETA, I support most veterans org's that are on base, usually outside the exchange. I usually walk up and salute them, then saying thanks for serving so that I can today.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:24:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 6:25:18 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:40:36 AM EST
If I find a charity that I approve of and like, I will donate what I can. I will buy a candy bar from a kid selling for school; my brother and his friends had to do that to pay for the school jazz band to get uniforms and the such, and they are working for their dough. I don't have a lot of money, but I volunteer as a tutor when I can.

Basically, if I think a charity is a worthy cause, and I have checked it out and am satisfied that the money will actually go to helping whoever they are supposed to help, I will give if I have it. However, I do not just go around giving to most of the charities out there; I don't have the money for one thing and for another, most charities end up spending the money on themselves
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:21:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 7:24:26 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Charity is a wonderful thing.

Like any wonderful thing, it can be abused by evil men.

I believing in helping those that cannot help themselves, or that need some extra help. I do not believe in "helping" those who WILL NOT help themselves. I will not give money to a whino on the street, but I will buy him food. (Make this offer. If someone gladly accepts, give them money and food and a place to go if you can. If, as so many panhandlers do, they get angry or refuse, give them nothing.)

I believe in helping orphanages, and disaster victims, and all the other forms of human suffering we see. But not in enabling them to keep on being on the dole.

Jesus was the most charitable man to ever live, and I want to be just like Him. But He was also no fool and only had pity on those who genuinely needed help.

Our taxes do indeed contribute to charity. Social Security recipients usually receive their contributions to the system in the first few years they are on the program. After that, they are on our charity. All the various food and health programs in our nation and that we support around the world were set up because of our compassion for others. America is the most compassionate society in the world, and I think that is one of the reasons we have such a high standard of living.

It is written in the Word:



17He who has pity on the poor lends to the LORD,
And He will pay back what he has given.

Proverbs 19:17

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:24:01 AM EST
I quit donating to the United Way when they stopped supporting the Boy Scouts, but I should have done it before then.

As for charity, I try to give as much as possible as often as possible. I'm a sucker for children's and vereran's charities. I consider it to be part of my tithing.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:26:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:
I quit donating to the United Way when they stopped supporting the Boy Scouts, but I should have done it before then.

As for charity, I try to give as much as possible as often as possible. I'm a sucker for children's and vereran's charities. I consider it to be part of my tithing.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...



All of my tithe goes to my local church. But I do give to things outside the church as I feel drawn to do so. Feed the Children, for instance, is a worthwhile cause. There are also many worthy causes and charitable outreaches within the various church denominations.

Giving to the poor is always honored by God.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:31:34 AM EST
here, i'll help you find a worthwhile one :

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=278514

actually though, its not charity, it's been earned...............
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:32:40 AM EST
Charity is cool with me. What I hate is Gov't charity.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:38:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scottman:
Charity is cool with me. What I hate is Gov't charity.



"Forced" charity is a bit of a contradiction in terms, isn't it?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:38:58 AM EST
charity always gave me great lap dances.



oh, you didn't mean her?

I give to whom I agree with.

The united way is not on the list. Neither are the bums on the corners with the signs.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:40:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine."



She certainly didn't mean that you shouldn't donate to charities.

Just that it shouldn't be forced upon you to do so.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:55:58 AM EST
If they ask for money they're beggars.

Examples of that piss me off:

The collection basket at church. One of the reasons I stopped going a long time ago. Guilting people into donating money is another form of extortion IMO.

FOP calling asking for donations. My latest response: "You mean the police that supported the extension of the AWB? You mean the cops who are totally against me carrying a gun for personal protection because they can't be everywhere at once. Not interested." CLICK!

Neighborhood kids peddling subscriptions to a newspaper that tells them if they sell so many the paper will pay for their college.
"Sir would you like The Sun delivered to your door?"
"Don't read the paper."
"They'll pay for me to go to college."
"That's your parent's financial burden, not mine. Are they gonna pay for my son's college education when he's your age?"

Celebrities who are spokespeople for a charity. This one really gets under my skin... the charity (which probably pays these celebrities to do commercials since no celebrity does anything for free) has some celebrity telling me I should donate money for skinny, malnourished kids in Africa. CELEBRITIES that make millions of dollars for pretending to be someone who actually makes a living doing real work. The day I hear that Susan Sarandon has donated 10+million dollars to some bullshit charity I'll mail them a nice shiny quarter.

As far as charities for medical research... I have always been under the impression that the people doing legitimate, potentially beneficial research are given HUGE government grants as well as endorsements from big corporations to further their work.

So what's my opinion on charities. Fuck'em!! Go beg for money from big money businesses who can afford to spare a couple mil. I plan on enjoying every cent I earn.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:04:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Strats:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine."



She certainly didn't mean that you shouldn't donate to charities.

Just that it shouldn't be forced upon you to do so.




Yes, but she had a greater point which was that altruisim for altruism's sake is a problem. It entrenches helplessness, and it fosters an "entitlement" mindset.

If I do something that brings me pleasure, that advances my OWN interests, and it has good results in terms of the "charitable realm," then that's fine. But I will never give just for the sake of giving. No charity has the right to demand that of me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:05:12 AM EST
John Galt once said:

As a basic step of self-esteem, learn to treat as the mark of a cannibal any man's demand for your help. To demand is to claim that your life is his property - and loathsome as such a claim might be, there's something still more loathsome: your agreement. Do you ask if it's ever proper to help another man? No - if he claims it as his right or as a moral duty you owe him. Yes - if such is your own desire based on your own selfish pleasure in the value of his person and his struggle. Suffering as such is not a value; only man's fight against suffering, is. If you choose to help a man who suffers, do it only on the ground of his virtues, of his fight to recover, of his rational record, or of the fact that he suffers unjustly; then your action is still a trade, and his virtue is the payment for your help. But to help a man who has no virtues, to help him on the ground of his suffering as such, to accept his faults, his need as a claim - is to accept the morgage of a zero on your values. A man who has no virtues is a hater of existence who acts on the premise of death; to help him is to sanction his evil and to support his career of destruction. Be it only a penny you will not miss or a kindly smile he has not earned, a tribute to a zero is treason to life and to all those who struggle to maintain it. It is of such pennies and smiles that the desolation of your world was made.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:05:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
If they ask for money they're beggars.

Examples of that piss me off:

The collection basket at church. One of the reasons I stopped going a long time ago. Guilting people into donating money is another form of extortion IMO.

FOP calling asking for donations. My latest response: "You mean the police that supported the extension of the AWB? You mean the cops who are totally against me carrying a gun for personal protection because they can't be everywhere at once. Not interested." CLICK!

Neighborhood kids peddling subscriptions to a newspaper that tells them if they sell so many the paper will pay for their college.
"Sir would you like The Sun delivered to your door?"
"Don't read the paper."
"They'll pay for me to go to college."
"That's your parent's financial burden, not mine. Are they gonna pay for my son's college education when he's your age?"

Celebrities who are spokespeople for a charity. This one really gets under my skin... the charity (which probably pays these celebrities to do commercials since no celebrity does anything for free) has some celebrity telling me I should donate money for skinny, malnourished kids in Africa. CELEBRITIES that make millions of dollars for pretending to be someone who actually makes a living doing real work. The day I hear that Susan Sarandon has donated 10+million dollars to some bullshit charity I'll mail them a nice shiny quarter.

As far as charities for medical research... I have always been under the impression that the people doing legitimate, potentially beneficial research are given HUGE government grants as well as endorsements from big corporations to further their work.

So what's my opinion on charities. Fuck'em!! Go beg for money from big money businesses who can afford to spare a couple mil. I plan on enjoying every cent I earn.



You're a real ray of sunshine, aren't you?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:22:03 AM EST
I tithe to support my church's activities and ring a bell for the local Salvation Army around Christmas. Charity is good, but you should be able to attach strings to charity in order to stimulate change. Tax distributed welfare takes that ability away from you.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:23:50 AM EST
ANyone got a $5 I can borrow?


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:40:49 AM EST
I really resented my company's efforts to threaten and extort me to donate hundreds of dollars per year to the United Way. I say f*ck 'em and encourage others to do so.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:49:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scottman:
Charity is cool with me. What I hate is Gov't charity.



Massachusetts people are notorious for being utterly cheap when it comes to giving to any charity. The taxes and cost of living are ridiculously high here as are the breadth and depth of the govt. bureaucracy. The stock response is, when asked for contributions to help poor people is, "I already gave at the office. Care to see my paycheck stub?"
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:56:24 AM EST
I usually give to the Boy and Cub Scouts, and the Salvation Army, but I REFUSE to give money to the little trick-or-treating liberals-in-training who are shilling for UNICEF at Hallowe'en.

They look at me like I'm the Antichrist when I tell them that money is only going to subsidize the no-show jobs of the sons and daughters of rapacious Third World dictators....
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:06:43 AM EST
Tax all non profits and eliminate the charitable deduction.

Get government out of regulating those entities.

The good ones will be supported. The bad ones and scams will fold up.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:13:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 9:14:59 AM EST by norman74]
.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 9:16:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By mace:
John Galt once said:

As a basic step of self-esteem, learn to treat as the mark of a cannibal any man's demand for your help. To demand is to claim that your life is his property - and loathsome as such a claim might be, there's something still more loathsome: your agreement. Do you ask if it's ever proper to help another man? No - if he claims it as his right or as a moral duty you owe him. Yes - if such is your own desire based on your own selfish pleasure in the value of his person and his struggle. Suffering as such is not a value; only man's fight against suffering, is. If you choose to help a man who suffers, do it only on the ground of his virtues, of his fight to recover, of his rational record, or of the fact that he suffers unjustly; then your action is still a trade, and his virtue is the payment for your help. But to help a man who has no virtues, to help him on the ground of his suffering as such, to accept his faults, his need as a claim - is to accept the morgage of a zero on your values. A man who has no virtues is a hater of existence who acts on the premise of death; to help him is to sanction his evil and to support his career of destruction. Be it only a penny you will not miss or a kindly smile he has not earned, a tribute to a zero is treason to life and to all those who struggle to maintain it. It is of such pennies and smiles that the desolation of your world was made.



The problem is that once you give to your church or some other organization you lose the ablity to make that distinction. If I see someone trying to better themselves and I choose to help that one person directly that's one thing, but virtually every charity in the world does nothing but prop up people that should be left to fall. It's reverse darwinism.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:01:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
If they ask for money they're beggars.
Examples of that piss me off:



You're a real ray of sunshine, aren't you?



I have my happy moments... usually when there isn't a hand stretched out in front of me. My other response to "beggars" is lifting up my left leg and telling them "I think I've given enough to every person in this country..."
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:12:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:

What I DON'T like is the "forced" charity...



And that's why I'm NOT a democrat.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:20:45 AM EST
I too am rather cynical when it comes to charity. I dont give to the united way at work because they try to force it down your throught. I do like the salvation army, and I would tihe were I still going to church.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:27:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ANyone got a $5 I can borrow?


SGatr15



It would hardly seem worth the trouble for $5.00!

How about we make it $20.00?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:33:45 AM EST
I should mention that I have deposited A LOT of "old" clothes (more like clothes I simply no longer wear) to the local clothes drop offs. I won't take them to Goodwill because they sell the shit. I would rather it be given as that was my intent by dropping it off.

Anything that involves money though... they can all pretty much get bent. Unless I see the money trail all the way to the place it's supposed to be going I really don't believe that charity is 100%. Kind of like those bullshit gumball machine charities where the money is supposed to go to cancer kids or whatever, but they only actually give about 10% of that money and pocket the rest. As far as I'm concerned all charities do the same thing, just on a larger scale.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:38:05 AM EST
Nothing .gov is charity although that is the MO to get the money. Salvation Army and Union Rescue Mission are two that I give to consistently.

I'm always a little leary of medical research giving. It seems with all the contributions to research that the products would be free or nearly so like the Salk Vaccine or school vaccinations. Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. Millions/billions have been contributed to different cancer research centers and still it is a big cost for favored treatments which are ususally operations and then chemo. Guess I shouldn't doubt everyone's sincerity here but I have trouble with the AMA and some other medical societies that seem to have agendas that don't jibe with mine.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:42:16 AM EST

I just got my license plates renewed today. As I was paying for it the girl behind the counter asks me if I want to donate a dollar for such and such childrens something or other. I said "Sure, That’s ok". As I was walking out the door it hit me that I had just paid over $40 in taxes on top of the fee for the plates and they were still asking for more charity. I almost went back and asked for my dollar back.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:52:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
What I DON'T like is the "forced" charity that you encounter in the workplace. The parent who browbeats you into coughing up for their kid, or the United Way, etc.

This may sound selfish, but I feel like my damn taxes are already MAKING me be charitable to illegal aliens, muslims, foreign nations, welfare crack hos, etc. As well as subsidizing the education of OTHER people's kids and single mommies lifestyles through Earned Income Tax Credits.

So I don't necessarily feel very charitable after getting ass-raped by .gov on taxes.

What are your thoughts on the matter?



Well, the conservatives are always saying that more services could be provided through private charity as an excuse to cut government program spending. If everyone had your mindset, exactly who would donate to charity to cover ANY sort of assistence through private means? Not many. So there would be even greater reliance on government programs.

That being said:

They push us to donate every year to the United Way at work. We have refused for years to support the UW because it gives some of its monry to the local inmates rights advicacy group. Its bad enough that our tax dollars are going to fund that organizations bail fund; UW gives a whole lot of additional money to fund that organizations daily expenses:

www.ithacanet.org/Orgs/OAR/.

We have been so persistent in our telling UW that because of their support of that organization we will not pay that they have offered to allow us to specify which of their supported organizations we CAN send our money to; we refuse on the grounds that as long as they fund that organization in ANY way, SOMEONES contribution is going to it. So..til they drop it totally ( which wont happen ), we wont contribute to UW.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:22:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ANyone got a $5 I can borrow?


SGatr15



It would hardly seem worth the trouble for $5.00!

How about we make it $20.00?

BigDozer66




Nah...I ain't looking for a hand out...


Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:32:47 AM EST
Charity is a good thing.

The United Way, however, is bullshit. Corporate Charity Inc. Pro-homo and anti-gun. An abomonation upon all that is clean and good in our beloved country. Shun them.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:42:48 AM EST
Jesus wants you tho give

Justmake sure to give to good groups (salvation army etc) and not political organizations (united way)
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:44:07 AM EST
My thoughts are that charitiable contributions have gone WAY down since the introduction of the income tax ... now since people feel like they're being /forced/ to "donate" money to the poor ... why should I give up any MORE of my income?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:22:41 PM EST
I knew a girl named Charity once. She was Hot!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:30:23 PM EST
For those of you who give to the needy, you can send checks or money orders to samsonitecoondog@comcast.net. I need many things, money will be best used but I will not turndown any contributions of guns,ammo,mags,scopes,and other shooting needs!We give what we can to various charitys. We ALWAYS give to veterans groups and police charitys. We try to go to the Firemans breakfasts and have given our old cell phones to battered women groups.My 2 cents.Take care.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:35:35 PM EST
I have been more and more interested in groups that support our servicemen and women and have been giving to both the USO and Help Hospitalized Veterans. Because of this, I'd be very curious to hear from ex-military about the work of the USO and if this is really worthwile, and what their experience was with the organization.

I know it looks good on paper, but what do the grunts think of it?

Oh yeah, and my local Red Cross. I believe those are good people.


Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:29:01 PM EST
TCD - if .gov cut back on forced charity programs and allowed us to keep more of our money, then more people like me WOULD contribute to WORTHWHILE charities.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:31:00 PM EST
I fight poverty, I work.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:35:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 3:37:01 PM EST by SigZiggy]
I give clothes and children's toys to battered women's shelter, and other misc crap to goodwill. I also purchase the calendars and cards they send from the humane society. What can I say, I'm a sucker for kids and animals.

I refuse to give money to people on the street, and the people that come up on the street corners with their buckets and fake churchy needs...ARG....well, except for the firemen when they have their boots out on the corners....that's AOK
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