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Posted: 1/8/2003 10:45:24 AM EST
[url=www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-charges0107,0,5724516.story?coll=bal%2Dlocal%2Dheadlines]Detectives didn't identify selves as they burst into city house, officials say; Jessamy cites '95 Supreme Court ruling[/url]
Baltimore prosecutors today dropped attempted murder and first-degree assault charges against a man who shot four police detectives during a November drug raid, saying they believe Lewis S. Cauthorne acted in self-defense when he wounded the officers as they barged into his home. Investigators concluded detectives did not announce that they were police just before smashing down Cauthorne's door with a battering ram and rushing in to look for drugs, State's Attorney Patricia C. Jessamy said at a news conference this morning in Clarence Mitchell Courthouse. Cauthorne was interviewed by police the night of the incident and told them, "I didn't know you guys were police. I thought I was getting robbed," according to law enforcement documents obtained by The Sun. Jessamy confirmed as much today, saying Cauthorne, 26, acted out of a reasonable fear when he fired six shots from a .45-caliber handgun at the raiding officers. The case against Cauthorne would not hold up in court, Jessamy said, because the raid violated a precedent set in the case of Wilson vs. Arkansas, which held that police bearing search warrants must knock and announce their presence before forcing their way into a home. "This decision rests solely on my sworn duty to weigh all of the facts and evidence in this case, against the laws of our land, and in 1995, the Supreme Court ruled in a manner to provide very clear guidance on the legal issues that impact this case,” Jessamy said. "... The burden of proof cannot be sustained.” Acting Police Commissioner John McEntee said today he opposed the decision by prosecutors. "I would have liked to have seen all available charges prosecuted," he said.
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Looks like in some jurisdictions you CAN defend yourself from overzealous police. But I wonder how much money and stress this cost him?
Cauthorne was released from jail about 7 p.m. today, according to a spokeswoman for the Division of Pretrial Detention. He had been been jailed since the Nov. 19 incident.
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Police returned fire, but neither Cauthorne nor anyone else in the home was injured.
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No comment.
While the law requires them to identify themselves, police are often hesitant to knock and tell residents that they are police officers. Detectives are often worried about giving drug dealers time to flush drugs down toilets or get weapons and attack officers rushing into the house.
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Well, NOT shouting "POLICE" and wearing uniforms or identifying jackets didn't prevent them getting shot, and if the suspects have only enough drugs that they can flush 'em down the toilet in 15 seconds (flush a toilet and see how long it takes to cycle) then they haven't got enough (IMHO) to justify an armed raid.
While the law requires them to identify themselves, police are often hesitant to knock and tell residents that they are police officers. Detectives are often worried about giving drug dealers time to flush drugs down toilets or get weapons and attack officers rushing into the house.
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Gee, I wonder why?[pissed]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 10:53:09 AM EST
Oh boy, so how much dope does it take to satisfy your threshold level to justify a warrant? I know that at least a 1/2 pound of heroin, meth or cocaine can be flushed in one flush. Have any idea how much that is worth, or even better, how many kids/people that can kill? Remember the stress and money it cost HIM was a result of HIS dealing dope. The dirtbag drug dealer is still responsible for the deaths, as they occurred as a result of his felony acts(dope dealing). Yup, no knocks are a bad idea.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 10:55:28 AM EST
Interesting how he was able to shoot 4 police officers and they returned fire but did not hit him. I think there are training issues a-plenty going on here.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 10:56:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By kay9: Remember the stress and money it cost HIM was a result of HIS dealing dope.
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Doesn't say anywhere that they actually did find drugs.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:05:14 AM EST
Nor does it say anywhere that anyone died as a result of the incident. Get some facts Kay9. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:06:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:10:40 AM EST
Jessamy confirmed as much today, saying Cauthorne, 26, acted out of a reasonable fear when he fired six shots from a .45-caliber handgun at the raiding officers.
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Lucky for the cops Cauthorne didn't have a 9mm, or they would be dead for sure. [;)]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:24:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By kay9: Oh boy, so how much dope does it take to satisfy your threshold level to justify a warrant?
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A warrant? Pretty much any amount.
Yup, no knocks are a bad idea.
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If you'll read, I wrote
...if the suspects have only enough drugs that they can flush 'em down the toilet in 15 seconds (flush a toilet and see how long it takes to cycle) then they haven't got enough (IMHO) to justify an armed raid.
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"Armed raid" as in "no-knock." Sorry I wasn't clearer on that point. I don't have a [i]significant[/i] problem with enforcing existing drug laws, but the [i]way[/i] they are enforced bothers the hell out of me.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:27:19 AM EST
You know the more times I read people blindly defending the gestapo tactics some police jurisdictions on this site, the more I wonder how many of these people actually give a shit about the Constitution. The Police State mentality among law enforcement that was created SIMPLY to fight the unConstitutional 'War on Drugs' (aka Prohibition), is the biggest threat to the Constitution, yet we have people either too blind, or too stupid to realize that. If it took a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw alcohol, then it should also take a Constitutional admendment to outlaw drug use. WE have officers on this site that have posted that they will 'shoot in the back of the head' somebody whose backup lights come on during a traffic stop. Which is becoming more and more typical of the police officers out there, they are beginning to care more about their own petty lives, than the petty lives of the rest of us, and they are selling us out because of it. I am worried very much about this, I think that type of thinking is a bigger threat than Bill Clinton, George Bush, Diane Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, or any one of the politicians, after all they arent the ones that will be 'dressing in black and kicking in doors'. I will let it be known, I am a law abiding citizen, but I will meet any forced entry into my home, announced or unannounced, by anyone, whether or not they claim to be police or not, whether they actually are police or not, to be an act that, as Locke said, that places that person or persons in a state of war with me. Same as a criminal on the street that attempts to rob me of my possessions. If such an act results in my death then so be it, at least I died a free man, unlike the slaves that dress in black and kick in doors of freemen...
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:39:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By kay9: Oh boy, so how much dope does it take to satisfy your threshold level to justify a warrant?
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Show me EXACTLY where in the Constitution ANY intoxicating substance is illegal.
I know that at least a 1/2 pound of heroin, meth or cocaine can be flushed in one flush. Have any idea how much that is worth, or even better, how many kids/people that can kill?
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So, are you making a confession of personal involvment as a drug dealer?
Remember the stress and money it cost HIM was a result of HIS dealing dope.
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Since they released him from jail, it would appear that they did not ANY amount of drugs that would require a no-knock entry.
The dirtbag drug dealer is still responsible for the deaths, as they occurred as a result of his felony acts(dope dealing).
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Once again, no mention of ANY drugs being found during the raid.
Yup, no knocks are a bad idea.
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Well, at least you got that one right!
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:47:03 AM EST
No knocks are a BAD idea. 1st The scum bags out there house 'jacking' are yelling police as they run/raid the house. So are we to wait and see for sure it's the police or defend our selfs....I choose defense. 2nd There always seems to be someone killed, hurt etc....children/innocent people in the house are at risk, and just because you are there does not mean you are involved in any "drug" activity...may be there to pick up your girlfriend, and her dad is a dealer and you have no idea. 3rd Not always the correct house...and since I know I have not done anything wrong, the yells of Police will make me think 'House Jacking' prompting me to unload my .45, into anything moving. (other then my wife, no kids) I have an Akita, who does not like un-welcome visitors, so the Leo's would with out question, kill her. 4th Stake out the house and get the perp as he is leaving or follow him to a 'safe' area to make the arrest. I know, I know.. I will hear all the B.S. banter of "there is no safe area..." well is it safer for your town home or apartment neighbor to be raided, U do know bullets can and do go thru walls. And we also know, the police like to shoot al lot of rounds at the bad guys, generally missing more then hitting. There are many other creative ways to bust a drug/illegal ring, but I truly thing No knock is a bad idea
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 11:49:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By kay9: [red]Oh boy, so how much dope does it take to satisfy your threshold level to justify a warrant? I know that at least a 1/2 pound of heroin, meth or cocaine can be flushed in one flush. Have any idea how much that is worth, or even better, how many kids/people that can kill?[/red]
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I'm sorry, but human lives, both the dealer and the LEO's are worth more, IMO than the bag of drugs that might be flushed. No knocks needlessly endanger lives.
[red]Yup, no knocks are a bad idea.[/red]
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Well, now your getting it !!
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:02:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By KBaker: Looks like in some jurisdictions you CAN defend yourself from overzealous police.
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And this happened in [b]Maryland[/b] even. Who would have guessed?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:13:51 PM EST
Remember the stress and money it cost HIM was a result of HIS dealing dope.
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The dirtbag drug dealer is still responsible for the deaths, as they occurred as a result of his felony acts(dope dealing).
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First of all, nowhere in the story does it mention any deaths. Secondly, nowhere in the story does it say that the guy actually was dealing. It ACCUSES him of dealing via an informant. Helluva difference. I can accuse you of anything. It may or may not be true.
Police raided the house at 8:55 p.m. with a search warrant after they were told by an anonymous source that drugs were being sold out of the home, in the 1000 block of Cameron Road.
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"What we have heah is a failure to communicate" by the police. In reality, we have a bad case of JBT-itis.
WE have officers on this site that have posted that they will 'shoot in the back of the head' somebody whose backup lights come on during a traffic stop. Which is becoming more and more typical of the police officers out there, they are beginning to care more about their own petty lives, than the petty lives of the rest of us, and they are selling us out because of it.
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Yet another truism. As has been discussed here many times, only a fool truly believes that the police are there to protect us poor citizens. We have the police mentality of "I'm going home at the end of my shift, regardless" rather than "To serve & protect." That is just rhetoric anymore.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:28:10 PM EST
I fear that police will use this as a lesson and increase the amount of force when conducting these type of raids. Just think when they come barging in looking for those "illegal assult weapons".
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:28:24 PM EST
Woo-Hoo! Finally some good news. That's great. Anything to reduce or discourage the use of no-knock raids is a good thing. Any asshole knocking down my door in the middle of the night is a criminal - badge or not, and you can damn well can expect to be shot.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:49:34 PM EST
Police raided the house at 8:55 p.m. with a search warrant after they were told by an anonymous source that drugs were being sold out of the home, in the 1000 block of Cameron Road. The raid yielded six bags with trace amounts of marijuana, empty vials, a razor with cocaine residue and two scales, documents show. Cauthorne, who had no arrest record, was not charged with any drug crimes.
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I wonder if the four officer who were shot feel that their efforts were worth the risk? Would any of you risk your life over something as vague as an anonymous tip?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:55:11 PM EST
End the insane war on drugs.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 1:09:16 PM EST
Here's a really tough concept: If someone knocks/rings doorbell I usually answer the door after asking whos there or looking thru peephole. If someone breaks down my door I'm gonna protect myself. How much fu**ing intellegence does that take?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 2:43:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By MrP: I fear that police will use this as a lesson and increase the amount of force when conducting these type of raids. Just think when they come barging in looking for those "illegal assult weapons".
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Well, they still have to funnel through the door - which makes any entry team easy pickins for anyone determined to defend themselves.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:05:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By SNorman: Well, they still have to funnel through the door - which makes any entry team easy pickins for anyone determined to defend themselves.
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Well, I guess in this case, Officer Friendly will trade his Crown Vic for one of those: [img]http://www.pixunlimited.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2001/11/14/blackhawk.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:41:40 PM EST
This raid was done after receiving neighborhood complaints, informant information, and a trash run which recovered evidence of drug activity. Cauthorne emptied his STOLEN .45 at the police and then ran out the back of the house where he was subdued (leaving his mother, g/f, and child). An ounce of cocaine as well as marijuana were recovered. Jessamy's office is famous for dropping charges and this city (Baltimore) is famous for juries that drop charges. One of the officers almost lost his leg and I think is going to have to medically retire.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 7:29:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By EdP: This raid was done after receiving neighborhood complaints, informant information, and a trash run which recovered evidence of drug activity. Cauthorne emptied his STOLEN .45 at the police and then ran out the back of the house where he was subdued (leaving his mother, g/f, and child). An ounce of cocaine as well as marijuana were recovered. Jessamy's office is famous for dropping charges and this city (Baltimore) is famous for juries that drop charges. One of the officers almost lost his leg and I think is going to have to medically retire.
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EdP, Thanks for more facts, but they don’t matter here. Haven’t you been around the boards lately? THE POLICE ARE THE TRUE ENEMIES.. We shout "Media Bias" when we read an unsettling report printed in the media depicting guns as evil.. But we are very fast to criticize it as factual info when its involving bad press of the police.. When we read or hear they want to ban guns or ammo because they are used in crimes, we are the first to stand up and protest that ITS THE CRIMINAL and not the gun that are bad. Funny, this whole topic shifted the focus from the DRUG DEALING COP SHOOTER who endangered everyone else in the house to the police involved. Amazing. If getting on the boards and ranting with your friends demonizing the police helps you hate us, that’s your rights.. Someone has to do it.. We can’t all have the perfect solution for every problem we encounter day to day. I should link my lap top to my cell phone in the car and ask some of you on AR-15.com every time I make a decision on the street. I sure a lot of you here would be glad to tell me how to proceed and handle any situations that would arise. Me.. I don’t have time for no-knock raids.. or MP5 swat responses or even chopping fingers off women drivers.. I’m usually too busy with Theft reports, traffic accidents, Domestics, Molest/rape investigations, Elderly/Spouse/Child abuses,Raising someone’s kids, Giving directions, Helping out families in need, Doing my best to serve the people in the county. But that’s usually too boring to make headlines here.. Anyhow, I'll keep doing it.. AR-15.com? Isn’t that a website for gun enthusiasts?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:08:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By EODK9:
Originally Posted By EdP: This raid was done after receiving neighborhood complaints, informant information, and a trash run which recovered evidence of drug activity. Cauthorne emptied his STOLEN .45 at the police and then ran out the back of the house where he was subdued (leaving his mother, g/f, and child). An ounce of cocaine as well as marijuana were recovered. Jessamy's office is famous for dropping charges and this city (Baltimore) is famous for juries that drop charges. One of the officers almost lost his leg and I think is going to have to medically retire.
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EdP, Thanks for more facts, but they don’t matter here. Haven’t you been around the boards lately? THE POLICE ARE THE TRUE ENEMIES.. We shout "Media Bias" when we read an unsettling report printed in the media depicting guns as evil.. But we are very fast to criticize it as factual info when its involving bad press of the police.. When we read or hear they want to ban guns or ammo because they are used in crimes, we are the first to stand up and protest that ITS THE CRIMINAL and not the gun that are bad. Funny, this whole topic shifted the focus from the DRUG DEALING COP SHOOTER who endangered everyone else in the house to the police involved. Amazing. If getting on the boards and ranting with your friends demonizing the police helps you hate us, that’s your rights.. Someone has to do it.. We can’t all have the perfect solution for every problem we encounter day to day. I should link my lap top to my cell phone in the car and ask some of you on AR-15.com every time I make a decision on the street. I sure a lot of you here would be glad to tell me how to proceed and handle any situations that would arise. Me.. I don’t have time for no-knock raids.. or MP5 swat responses or even chopping fingers off women drivers.. I’m usually too busy with Theft reports, traffic accidents, Domestics, Molest/rape investigations, Elderly/Spouse/Child abuses,Raising someone’s kids, Giving directions, Helping out families in need, Doing my best to serve the people in the county. But that’s usually too boring to make headlines here.. Anyhow, I'll keep doing it.. AR-15.com? Isn’t that a website for gun enthusiasts?
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Yeah, law enforcement is usually a ballbusting, dirty thankless job (when it isn't boring you to death)--I can see that and I actually appreciate those that answer the call for this type of civic service. BUT the powers given to law enforcement to do their jobs come with their baggage of double-standards, corruption and abuse. The reason these "LEO-bashing" threads get this kind of passionate response is that if anyone can most easily personify the government's ability to curtail our liberties and freeedoms, it's the uniformeed police officer--this is one dude who can pretty much do what he wants and has the full power of the government behind him. That scares alot of people shitless. It takes a special quality of man to accept and faithfully carry out the duties, responsibilities and authority which come with the badge--but not everyone with that badge deserves it. Cops, given the tools they have to combat crime, have the ability to seriously infringe on our civil liberties and for this they MUST be held to an incredibly high standard--they'd better have at least half the wisdom of Solomon and be cleaner than Ned Flanders . LLanero out
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