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Posted: 7/27/2013 12:40:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 12:40:43 PM EST by jrzy]
Change forcible blood draw to taking urine by force?

The forced blood draw thread got me to thinking what about if they wanted to insert a catheter into your johnson and by force take a urine sample ?

What would the courts say to that?
What would we say to that?
That might be my line in the sand where I'd lose it?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:41:37 PM EST
I imagine that although such an undertaking would be offensive to most people, the legal requirements and results would be the same.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:43:32 PM EST
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:50:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 12:55:04 PM EST by jrzy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
View Quote
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:52:35 PM EST
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:54:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 12:55:15 PM EST by jrzy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off.
View Quote
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down
It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 12:56:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down
It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off.
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down
It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about


(Coc violation) is all i have to say about that.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:01:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice



You were of sound mind and body it seems.

I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons.

But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:04:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice



So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:04:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


You were of sound mind and body it seems.

I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons.

But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice



You were of sound mind and body it seems.

I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons.

But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can.
You can restrain an drunk, forcibly taking urine by a catheter?
Not in any states where my wife has worked

Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:06:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hkusp9:


So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Hospitals do it all the time around here.

If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it.
Yeah not so much.
I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too.
He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4.
I had a car accident and a mild concussion.
He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter?
He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door.
He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home.
The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check"

They wanted me to go back to the hospital.
I declined

No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant.
Any other force would be met with equal or greater force.

By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice



So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not.
No
I don't drink hardly at all and don't ever drive if I had drank.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:07:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?
View Quote


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:12:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 1:12:58 PM EST by jrzy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both.
What state do you say this is legal in ?

If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody?
Something is off here.

You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it?
At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:14:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
By the way you do know SCOTUS ruled there is a need for the warrant now right
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:14:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both.
What state do you say this is legal in ?

If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody?
Something is off here.

You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it?
At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment?
View Quote


NJ.

The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount.

Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:15:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
By the way you do know SCOTUS ruled there is a need for the warrant now right
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
By the way you do know SCOTUS ruled there is a need for the warrant now right


The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings.

So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:17:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital.
View Quote


So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:19:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it?
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital.


So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it?


In what situation?

If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being.

They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:25:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 1:26:36 PM EST by Choking_Hazard]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
In what situation?

If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being.

They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations.
View Quote


Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:27:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 1:27:44 PM EST by VooDoo3dfx]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now?
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
In what situation?

If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being.

They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations.


Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now?


Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person.

ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:34:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


NJ.

The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount.

Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both.
What state do you say this is legal in ?

If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody?
Something is off here.

You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it?
At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment?


NJ.

The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount.

Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion.
Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ
There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant.
Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal.

People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal.
Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant?
Fuck no because you know what would happen.

Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment?

And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone?
He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order.

So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:36:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings.

So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
By the way you do know SCOTUS ruled there is a need for the warrant now right


The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings.

So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital.
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:36:27 PM EST
They wouldn't have to cath me, I'd just piss all over them
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:37:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ
There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant.
Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal.

People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal.
Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant?
Fuck no because you know what would happen.

Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment?

And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone?
He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order.

So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income
View Quote


That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws.

Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!"

Yet, it never happened.

Weird.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:38:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person.

ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
In what situation?

If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being.

They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations.


Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now?


Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person.

ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens.
BS and you know it.
Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:38:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again

View Quote


Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:39:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS and you know it.
Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test
View Quote


Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units.

You think they need a judges permission to commit people?

Now you're the one full of shit.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:40:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws.

Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!"

Yet, it never happened.

Weird.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ
There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant.
Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal.

People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal.
Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant?
Fuck no because you know what would happen.

Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment?

And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone?
He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order.

So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income


That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws.

Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!"

Yet, it never happened.

Weird.
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing.

Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:41:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again



Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
Trust me I don't fuck with people's real life but if I wanted to know bad enough I can find out
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:42:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing.

Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass
View Quote


I haven't done the job in a long time.

Now I have immunity and a union lawyer.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:42:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 1:42:58 PM EST by VooDoo3dfx]
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Trust me I don't fuck with people's real life but if I wanted to know bad enough I can find out
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again



Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
Trust me I don't fuck with people's real life but if I wanted to know bad enough I can find out


Quoted for posterity.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:43:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again



Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
But if's it's so legal as you claim what is the harm in telling what hospital it is?
No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:50:36 PM EST
Belligerent drunk assholes & closed head injuries sometimes act the same, depending on what part of the brain gets whacked. I've treated delightful little old ladies who tried to bite me from frontal subarachnoid bleeds & my personal favorite was a 6'5" strapping football player with a frontal contusion & concussion who THANKFULLY only wanted a prettier hospital gown & someone to assure him he was pretty.

When trauma patients are drunk/obnoxious, the cops are there to deal & I can do my job as a trauma surgeon--which is to make sure the patient isn't being a PIA due to intracranial trauma. I've seen other attending surgeons intuited & CT the head, chest, belly & then let the obnoxious patient wake up & extubate them in a few hours when they aren't a risk to themselves or other staff--but that is rarely needed.

When most patients refuse to cooperate & we have concerns about their possible intracranial injury, drugs leading to a psychotic state & risk to the public--cops help.

Not sure what your situation was--you must have been lucid enough you didn't need to be tubed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:54:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
But if's it's so legal as you claim what is the harm in telling what hospital it is?
No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know?
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again



Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
But if's it's so legal as you claim what is the harm in telling what hospital it is?
No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know?
Just to clarify, are you stating that other than a warrant or court order, there is NO scenario in which you can be restrained/held against your will in a medical scenario?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:55:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Change forcible blood draw to taking urine by force?
The forced blood draw thread got me to thinking what about if they wanted to insert a catheter into your johnson and by force take a urine sample ?
What would the courts say to that?
What would we say to that?
That might be my line in the sand where I'd lose it?
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It'd a better idea.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 1:59:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units.

You think they need a judges permission to commit people?

Now you're the one full of shit.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS and you know it.
Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test


Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units.

You think they need a judges permission to commit people?

Now you're the one full of shit.
No we are talking about a guy who drank to much
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:00:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ZootTX:
Just to clarify, are you stating that other than a warrant or court order, there is NO scenario in which you can be restrained/held against your will in a medical scenario?
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Originally Posted By ZootTX:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital.

I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again



Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
But if's it's so legal as you claim what is the harm in telling what hospital it is?
No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know?
Just to clarify, are you stating that other than a warrant or court order, there is NO scenario in which you can be restrained/held against your will in a medical scenario?
Different states , different laws

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:01:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 2:02:13 PM EST by VooDoo3dfx]
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
No we are talking about a guy who drank to much
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS and you know it.
Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test


Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units.

You think they need a judges permission to commit people?

Now you're the one full of shit.
No we are talking about a guy who drank to much


My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people.

Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure.

If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes.

Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:01:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


I haven't done the job in a long time.

Now I have immunity and a union lawyer.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing.

Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass


I haven't done the job in a long time.

Now I have immunity and a union lawyer.
Not from everything
You better see how far your Q immunity goes
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:02:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Not from everything
You better see how far your Q immunity goes
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing.

Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass


I haven't done the job in a long time.

Now I have immunity and a union lawyer.
Not from everything
You better see how far your Q immunity goes


Two different situations. But... I digress.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:03:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people.

Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure.

If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes.

Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread?
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
BS and you know it.
Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test


Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units.

You think they need a judges permission to commit people?

Now you're the one full of shit.
No we are talking about a guy who drank to much


My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people.

Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure.

If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes.

Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread?
What they do that night is one thing, what happens once they get a GOOD lawyer is something entirely different

You seem to have the perfect mind set of your new job (sarcasm)
You finally got an LEO gig huh?

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:04:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2013 2:04:51 PM EST by VooDoo3dfx]
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
You finally got an LEO gig huh?
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Finally?

Been on for a long time now.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:16:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Finally?

Been on for a long time now.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
You finally got an LEO gig huh?


Finally?

Been on for a long time now.
Sorry I missed the memo, how long you been on?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:32:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.


You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force?
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:34:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


NJ.

The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount.

Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both.
What state do you say this is legal in ?

If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody?
Something is off here.

You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it?
At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment?


NJ.

The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount.

Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion.


Women have been raped by MD's too. That makes it neither right nor lawful. It means some MD out there has committed a capital crime and has not yet seen justice.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:35:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:


You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force?
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Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter?


Under a doctors order.

For example;

Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in.

Police 'dumped and gunned it'.

We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson"

Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained.

No warrant needed.


You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force?


Thankfully I know kung fu.

Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:35:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Sorry I missed the memo, how long you been on?
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
You finally got an LEO gig huh?


Finally?

Been on for a long time now.
Sorry I missed the memo, how long you been on?

Awhile.

I'll leave at that.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:38:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person.

ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
In what situation?

If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being.

They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations.


Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now?


Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person.

ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens.


No, it is your scenario that never happens. You cannot use the results of a test not yet taken to justify holding someone and performing the test. It is a non sequiter. Maybe possible in Kurdistan, but not in the US.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:39:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
No, it is your scenario that never happens. You cannot use the results of a test not yet taken to justify holding someone and performing the test. It is a non sequiter. Maybe possible in Kurdistan, but not in the US.
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If you say so.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:41:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down
It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about
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Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off.
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down
It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about

I'd probably oo ahead and fight dirty. Somebody would wind up missing an eye.
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 2:42:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws.

Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!"

Yet, it never happened.

Weird.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ
There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant.
Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal.

People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal.
Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant?
Fuck no because you know what would happen.

Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment?

And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone?
He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order.

So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income


That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws.

Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!"

Yet, it never happened.

Weird.


I would have killed you. You are a sick rapist who forcibly penetrated another human being without consent and you have the nerve to brag about it on AR15. If you really believe that what you did was right, state the details, your name, and your present location and see what happens next. You will be jailed for rape.
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