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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:41:37 PM EDT
[#1]
I imagine that although such an undertaking would be offensive to most people, the legal requirements and results would be the same.
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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:43:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Hospitals do it all the time around here.
If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. 
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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:50:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hospitals do it all the time around here. If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#4]
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off.
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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:54:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wont comply with either so they can fuck off. It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 1:56:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wont comply with either so they can fuck off. It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about (Coc violation) is all i have to say about that. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:01:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah not so much. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hospitals do it all the time around here. If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice You were of sound mind and body it seems. I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons. But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:04:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah not so much. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hospitals do it all the time around here. If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:04:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You were of sound mind and body it seems. I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons. But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hospitals do it all the time around here. If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice You were of sound mind and body it seems. I have restrained psychos and drunks for catheters. Not people there for other reasons. But your line of 'no one in a hospital' is incorrect. In certain circumstances, they can. Not in any states where my wife has worked Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:06:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hospitals do it all the time around here. If a Doctor orders it.. he gets it. I was in a hospital and the doctor ordered it, I told the nurse no, she came back in with the doctor, I told him no too. He said we'll get an orderly I said you better get 4. I had a car accident and a mild concussion. He gave me a lot of crap and I asked him to justify the need for the catheter? He couldn't, by the time the 2 orderly's got there I was dressed and on my way out the floor door. He told them to stop me and ask me if I'd sign myself out , I told them to fuck off and left, took a taxi home. The cops came to my door about 2 hours later for a "well check" They wanted me to go back to the hospital. I declined No one in a hospital can make you do shit unless they have a warrant. Any other force would be met with equal or greater force. By the way I almost passed out later that night from that concussion and threw up twice So were you driving drunk when you crashed or not. I don't drink hardly at all and don't ever drive if I had drank. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:07:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:12:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. What state do you say this is legal in ? If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody? Something is off here. You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it? At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:14:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:14:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both. What state do you say this is legal in ? If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody? Something is off here. You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it? At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment? NJ. The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount. Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:15:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By the way you do know SCOTUS ruled there is a need for the warrant now right Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings. So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:17:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital. So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:19:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital. So what happens when I explain that I'm leaving and that any such procedure will be viewed as assault and I will respond with all necessary force to prevent it? In what situation? If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being. They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:25:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In what situation? If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being. They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations. Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:27:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In what situation? If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being. They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations. Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now? Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person. ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NJ. The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount. Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both. What state do you say this is legal in ? If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody? Something is off here. You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it? At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment? NJ. The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount. Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion. There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant. Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal. People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal. Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant? Fuck no because you know what would happen. Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment? And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone? He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order. So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:36:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings. So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. The urine / blood wasn't used for any court proceedings / criminal proceedings. So, no.. the warrant is only needed for police procedures. Not hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:36:27 PM EDT
[#22]
They wouldn't have to cath me, I'd just piss all over them
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:37:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant. Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal. People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal. Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant? Fuck no because you know what would happen. Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment? And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone? He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order. So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws. Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!" Yet, it never happened. Weird. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:38:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person. ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In what situation? If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being. They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations. Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now? Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person. ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens. Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:38:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:39:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BS and you know it. Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units. You think they need a judges permission to commit people? Now you're the one full of shit. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:40:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws. Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!" Yet, it never happened. Weird. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant. Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal. People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal. Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant? Fuck no because you know what would happen. Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment? And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone? He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order. So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws. Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!" Yet, it never happened. Weird. Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:41:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.  |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:42:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing. Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass I haven't done the job in a long time. Now I have immunity and a union lawyer.
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:42:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trust me I don't fuck with people's real life but if I wanted to know bad enough I can find out
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking.
Quoted for posterity. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:43:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:50:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Belligerent drunk assholes & closed head injuries sometimes act the same, depending on what part of the brain gets whacked. I've treated delightful little old ladies who tried to bite me from frontal subarachnoid bleeds & my personal favorite was a 6'5" strapping football player with a frontal contusion & concussion who THANKFULLY only wanted a prettier hospital gown & someone to assure him he was pretty.
When trauma patients are drunk/obnoxious, the cops are there to deal & I can do my job as a trauma surgeon--which is to make sure the patient isn't being a PIA due to intracranial trauma. I've seen other attending surgeons intuited & CT the head, chest, belly & then let the obnoxious patient wake up & extubate them in a few hours when they aren't a risk to themselves or other staff--but that is rarely needed. When most patients refuse to cooperate & we have concerns about their possible intracranial injury, drugs leading to a psychotic state & risk to the public--cops help. Not sure what your situation was--you must have been lucid enough you didn't need to be tubed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:54:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But if's it's so legal as you claim what is the harm in telling what hospital it is? No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:55:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Change forcible blood draw to taking urine by force? The forced blood draw thread got me to thinking what about if they wanted to insert a catheter into your johnson and by force take a urine sample ? What would the courts say to that? What would we say to that? That might be my line in the sand where I'd lose it? It'd a better idea. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 2:59:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units. You think they need a judges permission to commit people? Now you're the one full of shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: BS and you know it. Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units. You think they need a judges permission to commit people? Now you're the one full of shit. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:00:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just to clarify, are you stating that other than a warrant or court order, there is NO scenario in which you can be restrained/held against your will in a medical scenario? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A patient has the right under NJ law to refuse any test or treatment with no court order or warrant you'll get fucked along with the doctor and hospital. I'd love to know what hospital is doing this dumb illegal shit, I'd make sure it never happens again Well, you won't. So, no point in asking. No need to know who you are, just what hospital is doing illegal shit like that is all I'd like to know? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:01:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No we are talking about a guy who drank to much Quote HistoryQuoted:
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BS and you know it. Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units. You think they need a judges permission to commit people? Now you're the one full of shit. My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people. Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure. If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes. Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread?
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:01:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't done the job in a long time. Now I have immunity and a union lawyer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing. Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass I haven't done the job in a long time. Now I have immunity and a union lawyer. You better see how far your Q immunity goes |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:02:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not from everything You better see how far your Q immunity goes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Like I said, try it with me or a good lawyer and find out, you could end up getting arrested too, in NJ it's not hard, the liberals there will crucify you for such a thing. Like I said , just cause you get away with it , the next time someone with money will roll right over your ass I haven't done the job in a long time. Now I have immunity and a union lawyer. You better see how far your Q immunity goes Two different situations. But... I digress. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:03:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people. Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure. If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes. Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: BS and you know it. Anyone not under arrest or deemed a danger to himself (by a judge) is free to leave and if you think you can stop them let me know what hospital and I'll do a real life test Judge doesn't have to deem the person to be a danger to himself. That is why the hospitals have their own behavioral health units. You think they need a judges permission to commit people? Now you're the one full of shit. My above statements still stand with regards to intoxicated people. Hospital doesn't let 'drunk' people leave. I know of a few hospitals that follow the same procedure. If you think I am wrong.. get drunk in the central / northern Jersey area. Maybe get picked up by the squad.. or even better, the cops. Let me know how it goes. Maybe you can do a play by play in a thread? You seem to have the perfect mind set of your new job (sarcasm) You finally got an LEO gig huh? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:04:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You finally got an LEO gig huh? Finally? Been on for a long time now. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:16:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally? Been on for a long time now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You finally got an LEO gig huh? Finally? Been on for a long time now. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:32:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force? |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:34:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NJ. The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount. Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe in your state but there are a lot of states you could get criminally charged for that along with the doctor or sued or both. What state do you say this is legal in ? If the guy is under arrest and left there in who's custody? Something is off here. You think you can insert a catheter because the cops dumped the guy off and some fucking quack ordered it? At what point are you saying the patient lost his right to refuse treatment? NJ. The guy was under arrest, but then RORed on the spot with a summons complaint, rather than a warrant with a bail amount. Of course.. you'll say your wife told you blah blah blah (we have had this argument before). The story I mentioned is what happened. You can believe it or not at your discretion. Women have been raped by MD's too. That makes it neither right nor lawful. It means some MD out there has committed a capital crime and has not yet seen justice. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:35:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Under what circumstance could you legally restrain a drunk and take urine by a forced catheter? Under a doctors order. For example; Police brought intoxicated aggressive dick head in. Police 'dumped and gunned it'. We take over. Guy refuses to have blood taken, and refuses to piss in a cup. Tells nurses and staff to "Suck his fat johnson" Doctor orders both... and they get both, while the guy is restrained. No warrant needed. You do realize that such aggression is rightfully resised with deadly force? Thankfully I know kung fu. 
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:35:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry I missed the memo, how long you been on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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You finally got an LEO gig huh? Finally? Been on for a long time now. Awhile. 
I'll leave at that. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:38:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person. ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In what situation? If you're intoxicated (over .08 BAC), you were not allowed to leave unless someone signed you out, and took responsibility for your well being. They have restrained people for attempting to leave in those situations. Let's say the guy at .09 said what I posted above prefaced by saying he has just called someone to pick him up/sign him out. The doctor's ordered the tests, he explained he will not comply, so what happens now? Unless there is another reason (he is a danger to himself or others), then he would be allowed to leave with that person. ETA: But generally they wouldn't know what the BAC level is, unless the test was taken. Hence why your scenario never really happens. No, it is your scenario that never happens. You cannot use the results of a test not yet taken to justify holding someone and performing the test. It is a non sequiter. Maybe possible in Kurdistan, but not in the US. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:39:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it is your scenario that never happens. You cannot use the results of a test not yet taken to justify holding someone and performing the test. It is a non sequiter. Maybe possible in Kurdistan, but not in the US. If you say so. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:41:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd comply because no one can resist 5 guys holding you down It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wont comply with either so they can fuck off. It's what happens after you're released from custody they might should worry about I'd probably oo ahead and fight dirty. Somebody would wind up missing an eye. |
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Posted: 7/27/2013 3:42:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws. Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!" Yet, it never happened. Weird. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes we have had this discussion and as you might remember my wife is a phlebotomist in NJ There is no law that allows to take urine by force in NJ with out a warrant. Not saying this did not happen, it probably did and it was not legal. People get away with shit all the time, does not mean it's legal. Would you do that to a drunk lawyer with no warrant? Fuck no because you know what would happen. Nice how you didn't answer the ? about when does a patient lose his right to refuse medical treatment? And what authority does a doctor have to force this test on anyone? He doesn't, not with out a warrant or court order. So it might have been done but it wasn't legal and sooner or latter you do something that fucking stupid you'll end up losing your house and income That question is something you'd have to ask the doctor. Like a little good security officer, I just followed what the nurse stated. We don't get lessons in NJ hospital laws. Funny how everyone stated that "I AM GOING TO SUE ALL OF YOU!!!!!!" Yet, it never happened. Weird. I would have killed you. You are a sick rapist who forcibly penetrated another human being without consent and you have the nerve to brag about it on AR15. If you really believe that what you did was right, state the details, your name, and your present location and see what happens next. You will be jailed for rape. |
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