Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 12/12/2013 1:54:11 PM EST


Drawing board to in the air within 2 years is pretty impressive these days ,it might steal some Super Taco sales for those few countries with A-37s and Broncos left but it'll surely never see US service


http://www.businessinsider.com/cessnas-scorpion-jet-makes-first-flight-2013-12

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:55:37 PM EST
I'd buy that for a dollar.

Kharn
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:57:39 PM EST
I told them not to wash that Hornet in hot water.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:58:38 PM EST
Did the Iranians design it?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:58:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
I told them not to wash that Hornet in hot water.
View Quote

chortle
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:58:59 PM EST
I hope they sell a couple hundred a year
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:59:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
I told them not to wash that Hornet in hot water.
View Quote


ROFL
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:01:04 PM EST
How much?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:03:53 PM EST
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:10:46 PM EST
It's a cute little thing ain't it
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:11:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?
View Quote



dunno, but another article said $3000/hr to operate.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:13:24 PM EST
A jet that can only do 450 knots and haul 3000 lbs of stores?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:15:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?
View Quote


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:20:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeS369:


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:27:31 PM EST
Cute, does it shoot?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:30:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 2:31:22 PM EST by ASUsax]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.


I agree with you, but I see this as targeting current/former A-37 operators, and for that, it's not bad.

Some of these little countries have nothing bigger, and a Super Tucano, while a nice bird, just can't run down smugglers very well. This will run down anything shy of a Bizjet. It can handle some of the Air Policing roles that a Tucano just cannot.

I'm not sure it'll sell, and I rather think it won't (gonna be too much $$), but I can see the market.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:34:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.


It has a 6,000lb fuel capacity, 6,200lbs of ordnance and expected 5 hour endurance. It is meant for operations in a low-threat environment, not going head-to-head with the Soviet Air Forces.

The Scorpion demonstrator is intended to whet the U.S. Air Force's appetite with the promise of a low procurement and operating cost. The pitch is for this aircraft, which is optimized for 5-hr. endurance with onboard intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) collectors and weapons, to handle the Air Force's low-end missions such as U.S.-based interdiction, quick-reaction natural disaster support and air sovereignty patrols. The goal is to field an aircraft capable of operating for less than $3,000 per flying hour; the company declined to cite a target unit cost. By contrast, the Pentagon in June cited the cost per flying hour of the F-16, which currently performs many of these missions, as $24,899

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_09_16_2013_p22-615375.xml&p=1
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:41:29 PM EST
Primarily screams "trainer" to me.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:43:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKPatriot42:
Primarily screams "trainer" to me.
View Quote

Or warplane in the turd world
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:44:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Did the Iranians design it?
View Quote


Not sure Cessna and Iraqis work together
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:44:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stanag4179:
A jet that can only do 450 knots and haul 3000 lbs of stores?
View Quote


450 knots isn't really something to make fun of
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:48:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.


I don't know where you are getting the 3000lbs of fuel burned per hour.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:49:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
I told them not to wash that Hornet in hot water.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:50:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReconB4:


450 knots isn't really something to make fun of
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
Originally Posted By stanag4179:
A jet that can only do 450 knots and haul 3000 lbs of stores?


450 knots isn't really something to make fun of


It's faster than an A-10 AND has two pilots.

I wonder how it works in a hot/high environment.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:51:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeS369:


I don't know where you are getting the 3000lbs of fuel burned per hour.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By MikeS369:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
VLCJ? Yawn. Sure, it has good top end and decent endurance, for a jet. But how much jet juice does it drink an hour?


"...low operating cost, far less than $3,000 per flying hour".

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_24_2013_p01-02-619506.xml
3000 pounds per hour? FTS. No wonder it only has capacity for that in stores. 10 times the thirst of a Tucano.

Folks, small turbine engines, be they high bypass or not, are better at making noise than thrust. And better at making waste heat than thrust. But sure, you have the 450 kt top end.

It will suck at CAS because it cannot stay on station or deliver payload. It will suck in combat because it is a bright, hot light no countermeasure could cover.


I don't know where you are getting the 3000lbs of fuel burned per hour.

$3000/hr = 3000lbs/hr

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:54:04 PM EST

Looks like the plane from Hot Shots.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:18:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:


Drawing board to in the air within 2 years is pretty impressive these days ,it might steal some Super Taco sales for those few countries with A-37s and Broncos left but it'll surely never see US service


http://www.businessinsider.com/cessnas-scorpion-jet-makes-first-flight-2013-12

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/52aa3bbe6da8111018e1085a-959-479/scorpion-first-flight-1.jpg
View Quote

pffft...

From Wiki: "The F-14 first flew on 21 December 1970, just 22 months after Grumman was awarded the contract,"

They should be able to do complete a less complicated aircraft faster these days with todays knowledge, computers, CAD, 6-axis CNC machines, etc.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:22:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gage:

pffft...

From Wiki: "The F-14 first flew on 21 December 1970, just 22 months after Grumman was awarded the contract,"

They should be able to do complete a less complicated aircraft faster these days with todays knowledge, computers, CAD, 6-axis CNC machines, etc.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gage:
Originally Posted By outofbattery:


Drawing board to in the air within 2 years is pretty impressive these days ,it might steal some Super Taco sales for those few countries with A-37s and Broncos left but it'll surely never see US service


http://www.businessinsider.com/cessnas-scorpion-jet-makes-first-flight-2013-12

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/52aa3bbe6da8111018e1085a-959-479/scorpion-first-flight-1.jpg

pffft...

From Wiki: "The F-14 first flew on 21 December 1970, just 22 months after Grumman was awarded the contract,"

They should be able to do complete a less complicated aircraft faster these days with todays knowledge, computers, CAD, 6-axis CNC machines, etc.

Yeah, but it didn't have to have anti-sattelite capability or STOVL. Or a laser.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:23:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
I hope they sell a couple hundred a year
View Quote
So does my 401k!
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:24:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

$3000/hr = 3000lbs/hr

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By MikeS369:


$3000/hr = 3000lbs/hr

Gallon of gas weighs about what........7 pounds. Call it $3.00 a gallon for jet fuel. 3000/3 equals 1000 gallons an hour or 7000 pounds an hour.

I'm guessing it's closer to 300 or 400 gallons an hour, but then again, I know squat about aircraft except they go in the sky.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:24:51 PM EST
Cheaper than these?:
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:33:59 PM EST



Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:42:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Cheaper than these?:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/red_army_pics/hawkdm23.jpg
View Quote




You're not gonna get much change back from $30 million for that Hawk.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:53:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stanag4179:
A jet that can only do 450 knots and haul 3000 lbs of stores?
View Quote

It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. She's fast enough for you, old man.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:56:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stanag4179:
A jet that can only do 450 knots and haul 3000 lbs of stores?
View Quote


Reading is for faggots.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:58:58 PM EST
Fuel Math

JP8 Current price is $3.73 a gallon

$3,000 fuel equals 3000lbs ()

JP8 is 6.7lbs a gallon.

$3000 divided by 6.7lbs equals 447.76 gallons.

447.76 gallons times $3.73 equals $1670.14





Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:01:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Looks like the plane from Hot Shots.
View Quote






Well... I guess it DOES have two seats...
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:02:28 PM EST
Aircraft Length 43 ft 6 in
Wingspan 47 ft 4 in
Height 14 ft 0 in
Standard Empty Weight 11,800 lbs
Max Takeoff Weight 21,250 lbs
Max Internal Fuel Load 6,000 lbs
Max Internal Payload Bay 3,000 lbs
Thrust ~8,000 lbs
Max Speed 450 KTAS
Service Ceiling 45,000 ft
Ferry Range 2,400 NM

http://www.scorpionjet.com/
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:05:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:06:57 PM EST
I always thought the Folland Gnat was cool just for how tiny it was.

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:08:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Aircraft Length 43 ft 6 in
Wingspan 47 ft 4 in
Height 14 ft 0 in
Standard Empty Weight 11,800 lbs
Max Takeoff Weight 21,250 lbs
Max Internal Fuel Load 6,000 lbs
Max Internal Payload Bay 3,000 lbs
Thrust ~8,000 lbs
Max Speed 450 KTAS
Service Ceiling 45,000 ft
Ferry Range 2,400 NM

http://www.scorpionjet.com/
View Quote


It seems like a nifty little jet. I wonder what the final unit cost will be.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:10:53 PM EST
Mission?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:13:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Danner130:
Mission?
View Quote


Reading is for faggots.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:13:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
I always thought the Folland Gnat was cool just for how tiny it was.

View Quote




The Indians had fair success with them as a fighter and ground attack plane, they even developed a single place version of it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:19:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 4:23:36 PM EST by Lon_Moer]
hey its an updated twin engine twin tail Tempco Pinto jet.




View Quote

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:20:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Fuel Math

JP8 Current price is $3.73 a gallon

$3,000 fuel equals 3000lbs ()

JP8 is 6.7lbs a gallon.

$3000 divided by 6.7lbs equals 447.76 gallons.

447.76 gallons times $3.73 equals $1670.14





View Quote


I get that. But the article says "far less than $3000 per flying hour" with 5 hours endurance.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:20:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:


It seems like a nifty little jet. I wonder what the final unit cost will be.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Aircraft Length 43 ft 6 in
Wingspan 47 ft 4 in
Height 14 ft 0 in
Standard Empty Weight 11,800 lbs
Max Takeoff Weight 21,250 lbs
Max Internal Fuel Load 6,000 lbs
Max Internal Payload Bay 3,000 lbs
Thrust ~8,000 lbs
Max Speed 450 KTAS
Service Ceiling 45,000 ft
Ferry Range 2,400 NM

http://www.scorpionjet.com/


It seems like a nifty little jet. I wonder what the final unit cost will be.


"The plane was built for a world of tight defense budgets, the company has said. It will cost less than $20 million to buy and less than $3,000 an hour to operate." From Military.com news


Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:21:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:




The Indians had fair success with them as a fighter and ground attack plane, they even developed a single place version of it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
I always thought the Folland Gnat was cool just for how tiny it was.





The Indians had fair success with them as a fighter and ground attack plane, they even developed a single place version of it.


Little tiny jets that operate in the high subsonic regime are hard to hit with manually aimed weapons.

Amazingly, this thing is twice the size of a Gnat. Significantly bigger than an A-37, also.

It's closer to a Skyhawk, though bigger and lighter.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:22:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hellbent_4:


"The plane was built for a world of tight defense budgets, the company has said. It will cost less than $20 million to buy and less than $3,000 an hour to operate." From Military.com news


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hellbent_4:
Originally Posted By swede1986:
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Aircraft Length 43 ft 6 in
Wingspan 47 ft 4 in
Height 14 ft 0 in
Standard Empty Weight 11,800 lbs
Max Takeoff Weight 21,250 lbs
Max Internal Fuel Load 6,000 lbs
Max Internal Payload Bay 3,000 lbs
Thrust ~8,000 lbs
Max Speed 450 KTAS
Service Ceiling 45,000 ft
Ferry Range 2,400 NM

http://www.scorpionjet.com/


It seems like a nifty little jet. I wonder what the final unit cost will be.


"The plane was built for a world of tight defense budgets, the company has said. It will cost less than $20 million to buy and less than $3,000 an hour to operate." From Military.com news




That's the sales pitch. What the final pricetag is remains to be seen.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:26:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:


The Indians had fair success with them as a fighter and ground attack plane, they even developed a single place version of it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
I always thought the Folland Gnat was cool just for how tiny it was.



The Indians had fair success with them as a fighter and ground attack plane, they even developed a single place version of it.


I can imagine they'd be pretty hard to see considering how small they are.

According to Wiki the same guy who designed the Gnat, Teddy Petter, designed the Lysander, Canberra and Lightning. Pretty impressive range of aircraft.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 5:20:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By redoubt:
I told them not to wash that Hornet in hot water.
View Quote


*snort*
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top